FDA seizes documents from Juul

[LaraC]

FDA's attitude and actions regarding e-cigarettes keep getting worse and worse.

FDA seizes documents from Juul in latest e-cigarette crackdown | Reuters

A long thread about FDA's war on flavors (and on juul in particular) leading up to what happened today (Oct 2, 2018) is here:
FDA considering ban on flavored e-cigarettes

 

[Mowgli]

juul = independent - about 1/5 of the warnings FDA sent out
Vuse & Blu = BT owned - over 2/3 of the warnings FDA sent out

I suppose Juuling has a better ring to it than Vusing or Bluing

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Prohibition here we come vape style.......geez.

Would like to see the same done to Phillip Morris, Alteria, etc.....fair is fair....lol

Kids will be kids. You haven't stopped them from getting cigarettes. What makes the FDA think this is any different in terms of availability? Online shopping? yeah right. At any time I can go online and buy cigarettes so.....just saying even tho its been banned it has not stopped people or the internet.

 

[Mowgli]

Prohibition here we come vape style.......geez.

They had some rockin' speakeasies in The Roaring 20's
I'm going to need a trapdoor, HD suspension and a bigger turbo in my SS wagon

 

[bombastinator]

Prohibition here we come vape style.......geez.

Depends. I’m withholding judgement for the moment. It might turn out for example that there are health problems with their nic salts they were hiding from the public for example.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Depends. I’m withholding judgement for the moment. It might turn out for example that there are health problems with their nic salts they were hiding from the public for example.

Only problem I see is its 50mg OMG. I found the formula for making nic salts that they use......would not touch it. Nothing bad about it except the amount used.....

 

[zoiDman]

FDA's attitude and actions regarding e-cigarettes keep getting worse and worse.

FDA seizes documents from Juul in latest e-cigarette crackdown | Reuters

...

I actually see this as a Good Thing.

Because if JUUL is sincere when they say that they in No Way are Actively Marketing to Underage Users, which I believe they probably are, then the Seizure of Internal Documents should prove this.

And if they Are Not, then lets Nail them to a Cross and be done with it.

Now... of course... I Highly Doubt that JUUL will get much Media Attention if they were Actively trying to combat Underage Sales. Because it is Easier to Slam JUUL for many things that are out of their control. But that's kinda the Way the Average Media Outlet works.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

I actually see this as a Good Thing.

Because if JUUL is sincere when they say that they in No Way are Actively Marketing to Underage Users, which I believe they probably are, then the Seizure of Internal Documents should prove this.

And if they Are Not, then lets Nail them to a Cross and be done with it.

Now... of course... I Highly Doubt that JUUL will get much Media Attention if they were Actively trying to combat Underage Sales. Because it is Easier to Slam JUUL for many things that are out of their control. But that's kinda the Way the Average Media Outlet works.

There is nothing good about the way the FDA is handling it. Makes it sound like a drug raid or something. According to JUUL they have been compliant with all the things the FDA asked for. This will come back and bite the FDA square in the pants and that is a good thing.....

 

[keelalagirl55]

There is nothing good about the way the FDA is handling it. Makes it sound like a drug raid or something. According to JUUL they have been compliant with all the things the FDA asked for. This will come back and bite the FDA square in the pants and that is a good thing.....

A good pants biting of the FDA is LOOOONG overdue!!! I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm rooting for the keister biting

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

A good pants biting of the FDA is LOOOONG overdue!!! I can't believe I'm saying this, but I'm rooting for the keister biting

JUUL sales will probably go through the roof now.....FDA just made it cooler to the kids.......

 

[zoiDman]

There is nothing good about the way the FDA is handling it. Makes it sound like a drug raid or something. According to JUUL they have been compliant with all the things the FDA asked for. This will come back and bite the FDA square in the pants and that is a good thing.....

Disagree. I say Let's End this entire JUUL is actively marketing to Minors thing Once and Forever More.

If they Aren't, then I say the FDA and the Media should Off.
And if they Are, then Shut them Down.

Everything e-Cigarette-wise seems to be Tried in the Court of Public Appeal. And the Mainstream Media is Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

At least with the Seizure of JUUL Internal Documents, we have something to Evaluate beside Hearsay and Op-ed Innuendo.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Disagree. I say Let's End this entire JUUL is actively marketing to Minors thing Once and Forever More.

If they Aren't, then I say the FDA and the Media should Off.
And if they Are, then Shut them Down.

Everything e-Cigarette-wise seems to be Tried in the Court of Public Appeal. And the Mainstream Media is Judge, Jury, and Executioner.

At least with the Seizure of JUUL Internal Documents, we have something to Evaluate beside Hearsay and Op-ed Innuendo.

With the FDA acting like Elliott Ness they just ensured that JUUL will be a household name. That's the bite in the britches I was referring to in my last post. It's the whole forbidden fruit thing, if you will.....

 

[bombastinator]

I personally wouldn’t shed a tear to see juul rolled over the coals. I believe their policies on nic levels are highly likely unethical personally. That said, the possibility of mission creep is very worrying. It also does nothing to evade the accusation that the FDA is controlled by big tobacco as the juul is not apparently a big tobacco company and is eating their lunch atm.

 

[papergoblin]

This ends 2 ways:
1. FDA, shows they were marketing kids, vaping needs to be banned or heavy regulation.

2. FDA, shows they are NOT marketing to kids but kids being the way they are, need protecting. Vaping needs to be banned or heavy regulation.

Either way they will find a reason to blame vaping and not young adults (they aren't kids) breaking the law.

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

This ends 2 ways:
1. FDA, shows they were marketing kids, vaping needs to be banned or heavy regulation.

2. FDA, shows they are NOT marketing to kids but kids being the way they are, need protecting. Vaping needs to be banned or heavy regulation.

Either way they will find a reason to blame vaping and not young adults (they aren't kids) breaking the law.

Actually it is really on the parents to know what their kids do and regulate their own childrens' behavior and actions. As it always has been. Why the FDA has chosen this fight is obvious. Two birds, etc....

This almost ensures that closed systems is the way vaping is going to go so the FDA can monitor and regulate them. So stock up on your favs now before you can not.

 

[WhiteHighlights]

Minor detail that the FDA gave Juul 60 days to respond to their request for documents and this raid/inspection/document seizure, whatever you want to call it, was prior to their submission. It's a presumption that Juul will be less than honest. The FDA is intent on hanging Juul out to dry, one way or another.

 

[zoiDman]

With the FDA acting like Elliott Ness they just ensured that JUUL will be a household name. That's the bite in the britches I was referring to in my last post. It's the whole forbidden fruit thing, if you will.....

Gotcha. No Argument there.

---

I think what Really Pisses my Off about all this is that e-Cigarettes always seem to be the Pawn moved by a Bigger Hand for a Bigger Goal than what e-Cigarettes were invented for. A way for Smokers to have a Means for viable THR.

And now that the Political Winds have shifted, and thoughts like Future Funding by a Different Congress have slipped in, we are seeing a Different Tone (which was really the Same Tone from the Last one) by an FDA who Heralded themselves as being Different. And Embracers of Innovation.

Fun Fact. Beer Companies don't have to Market to Minors to have Minors wanting to buy Beer. All you have to do is put Something in a Bottle that is Drinkable and will get you Buzzed and they will come.

If JUUL is Guilty of something, I would say that Something is making a Product that is Innovative. So if there are Internal Documents showing No Nefarious Scheme to sell to Minors, then I say let it be brought out into the Sunlight.

 

[Punk In Drublic]

I actually see this as a Good Thing.

Because if JUUL is sincere when they say that they in No Way are Actively Marketing to Underage Users, which I believe they probably are, then the Seizure of Internal Documents should prove this.

And if they Are Not, then lets Nail them to a Cross and be done with it.

Now... of course... I Highly Doubt that JUUL will get much Media Attention if they were Actively trying to combat Underage Sales. Because it is Easier to Slam JUUL for many things that are out of their control. But that's kinda the Way the Average Media Outlet works.

This is not a good thing. A conviction on any vape company will be felt throughout the whole industry. Whether you like Juul or not you better hope no wrong doings is found.

 

[zoiDman]

This is not a good thing. A conviction on any vape company will be felt throughout the whole industry. Whether you like Juul or not you better hope no wrong doings is found.

This is where I Disagree. Because we are in a e-Cigarette Realm where you Guilty until Proven Innocent.

If JUUL is a Bad Actor (I really don't think they are) and their Documents show that they are, then they should Pay the Penalty for doing so. But if their Documents Don't show this, then that should be Publically Known.

JUUL is just the Fall Guy right now. Everyone knows that you have to have a Fall Guy we can all Kick. Because if we Didn't, we might have to think about Tough Concepts like the Inability to stop a Baseline Percentage of Minors from doing things we don't want them to do.

Like Smoking Cigarettes
Or Drinking
Or Smoking ....
Or doing Drugs
Or having Sex
Or Driving Too Fast
Or ________ (Fill in what You Don't want a Minor to Do.)

 

[Sugar_and_Spice]

Gotcha. No Argument there.

---

I think what Really Pisses my Off about all this is that e-Cigarettes always seem to be the Pawn moved by a Bigger Hand for a Bigger Goal than what e-Cigarettes were invented for. A way for Smokers to have a Means for viable THR.

And now that the Political Winds have shifted, and thoughts like Future Funding by a Different Congress have slipped in, we are seeing a Different Tone (which was really the Same Tone from the Last one) by an FDA who Heralded themselves as being Different. And Embracers of Innovation.

Fun Fact. Beer Companies don't have to Market to Minors to have Minors wanting to buy Beer. All you have to do is put Something in a Bottle that is Drinkable and will get you Buzzed and they will come.

If JUUL is Guilty of something, I would say that Something is making a Product that is Innovative. So if there are Internal Documents showing No Nefarious Scheme to sell to Minors, then I say let it be brought out into the Sunlight.

Vaping is also a pawn for the intrusion of FDA into a family and telling people what they can and can't do for their children. Unintended consequences? Not so sure. This opens a door that goes way beyond what they have the right to do. Of course they are using the regulation to the fullest extent they can, but what of other rights like I just mentioned? The slippery slope just gets slicker and slicker....

I understand what JUUL is trying to do and that is to make a product that you only have to hit a couple times an hour to satisfy your craving(instead of the chain vaping some of us do) but it also reeks of the potential limitations that the UK has placed upon their citizens. No so much in terms of strength of nicotine but in volume one is allowed to have.

On the other side of the coin..... Have you seen that new company here in the US called saffire or something like that? They sell nic in 1 and 2 ml packages of 10 or 20 mg. Just like the UK and people are loving it. They purchase zero nic ejuice and just put in their nic....Sound familiar? Watch that company take off also........

Seems like the good ole days is happening right now. sad