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FDA Taking away our rights and freedom to choose

Discussion in 'New Members Forum' started by coho72, Jun 23, 2010.

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  1. coho72

    coho72 Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 30, 2010
    Boston
    Since that horrible day on 911 , our rights as "Free Americans" have been infringed upon like never before in history , from illegal wire taps to secret Govt. courts that issue secret search warrants and this has all been accepted by us as the "price we have to pay" to be safe here at home. Now the FDA is trying to take away our right to quit analogs and save thousands of dollars in taxes , millions of dollars in health care and it is all under the guise that this is somehow targeting children and the laughable one "it is dangerous". The USPS has stated it will no longer take delivery of any tobacco products as this will make it harder for our children to obtain tobacco products. It is plain to see that is not at all what this is about! It is the first step in taking away our e liquid. Once we allow these laws to pass , it will make it that much easier for the FDA to shut down the E-cig business for good. If they can't find a way to ban the liquid , then take away our ability to recieve it and that will have the same destructive effect on vaping. I wasn't aware that there was an overwhelming amount of children ordering tobacco products online? I was always under the impression that to order something from the internet , you would need a credit or debit card and you needed to be 18 to acquire one of those? We need to fight this together , not just the vendors whose businesses rely on beating them but all of us. Once they start getting these ....ty laws passed each one there after becomes that much easier to get passed. They are starting with our flavors and moving on to our ability to get it delivered. Write an email to the FDA! Tell them how this has benefited you. Tell them , you aren't going to eat their crap they are trying to feed us , that this is a child target business. Let them know we deserve the right to choose to vape whatever flavor e liquid we choose because we are "FREE AMERICANS" We do not live in a totalitariun society that tells us what we can and can not do! We need to come together on this if you want to keep our 510's vaporizing our favorite juice. It could all be gone faster than anyone imagines if we don't. Write to anyone that will listen!!!!!!!
     
  2. suddenly

    suddenly Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Nov 26, 2009
    The Secret Garden
    I agree. Pretty soon we will have to ask permission to go potty.
     
  3. Sylvie

    Sylvie Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 15, 2010
    USA
    Starts June 29th huh.. gotta like how Cigars are exempt from new tobacco mailing rule.
    Can't have them lawmakers and their rich buddies not getting their cigar fixes now can they!!

    Well at least from what I read of the new postal rule, there are some getting around the regulation..
     
  4. CaptJay

    CaptJay Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Jan 3, 2010
    A Brit, abroad, (USA)
    lol @ harder for our children to get tobacco via USPS. 'Cos when I started smoking I got all my supplies through the mail...NOT.
    Who here knows of a single child who got their first smoke off the mailman? Anyone?
    I used to swipe mine off my parents, then my pals, then I bought my own.
    Does anyone use commonsense making these new rules anymore?

    FYI the FDA dont care how much this has benefitted you - we don't pay them so they don't give a monkey's what we think.
     
  5. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I think that the only true "Right" that any American has is the "Right" to be taxed.
     
  6. papa_cadillac

    papa_cadillac Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 3, 2010
    cottageville, SC
    Actually, I just perused the regulation on the USPS website, and nowhere did it specifically list "E-Cigarette". It simply listed cigarettes and smokeless tobacco products...or dip and chewing tobacco. I find it hard to believe that the USPS wouldn't accept the packages from the Ecig suppliers to their customers as these aren't classified as smokeless tobacco products. I will be waiting to see what happens with this, but in the meantime, there's always UPS and Fed-Ex and the like.
    I've never been one to imitate the NAACP, but perhaps a boycott of the USPS in it's current financial state would send the message? Nah, they're taxpayer funded...
     
  7. Stuberto

    Stuberto Full Member

    Jun 22, 2010
    Well, this is a stupid law. Maybe the mail carriers have a moral objection to transporting "death in a box" (a tasty, fulfilling death). I think the regulation is mostly about sticking it to those of us who don't care for the high taxes and order analogs online. So, as long as you don't ship too often, it's okay? I guess we'll see a huge upswing in "sensitive electronic parts" or other "non tobacco products" being sent via USPS?

    "The law does permit infrequent lightweight shipments by age-verified adults to recipients who are at least the age of majority for purchase of tobacco. Shipments between businesses in the tobacco industry will also be permitted, as well as cigarettes sent to consumers age 21 and above for testing or public health purposes."
     
  8. Youthful313

    Youthful313 Super Member ECF Veteran

    The government should at least kiss us since they're you know (cuss)ing us all the time. Heard that in a movie thought it fit. :)
     
  9. Hendry

    Hendry Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 13, 2010
    Brooklyn, NY
    E-Liquid is not affected by the Pact Act.
     
  10. Zero Tolerance

    Zero Tolerance Full Member

    Jun 21, 2010
    Denver
    Just an FYI... The Postal Service is funded completely by the revenue it generates. Not a single penny of tax payer money is used to fund it. A boycott of the Postal Service would impact it...
     
  11. Drakos

    Drakos Full Member

    Jun 23, 2010
    Calgary
    Death and taxes still holds true even today.
     
  12. papa_cadillac

    papa_cadillac Senior Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 3, 2010
    cottageville, SC
    Oops, thought for some reason they were a gov't entity due to some propping up at one time or another...
    Oh well, the E-cig community shouldn't be impacted by this, if they stick to the letter of the act.
     
  13. Automaton

    Automaton Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 23, 2010
    US
    It's like watching prohibition in slow motion.

    Yeah, because prohibition has been SO effective up to this point. We don't have kids dying in gang drug wars. No, not at all.

    And prohibition of alcohol was totally a huge success. Totally. That's why we still do it today, right?

    The reason they're going after mail restrictions is because buying tobacco products online, if you know how to shop, is cheaper.

    And this relates to the only reason they haven't banned cigarettes outright.

    The tobacco lobbyists are real cozy with not only the government at large, but also a lot of other big-wig lobbyists, most important among them being the pharmaceutical industry (who make the gums and patches that don't really work, but do cost a crap-load).

    It is economically beneficial for them to keep people buying tobacco products. But doing this online, where prices are lower due to various loopholes in taxation (the cigs my dad used to get from a producer on an Indian reservation, for example - who were recently shut down by the government) cuts into their profit.

    And of course, they hate e-cigs even more because it's something they have little control over that is causing people to kick smoking. And as much as they subsidize ads on TV about quitting, but aren't actually interested in you quitting. They're interested in having you spend even MORE money on their products, which don't work for most people.

    The fact is they don't want to ban cigarettes - they just want to make it so that you can only buy them the way they say so.
     
  14. coffey

    coffey Full Member

    Apr 25, 2010
    Michigan
    All the cool kids order through the mail. The thought process for new smokers works like this: "I'm going to start smoking..... In 4 days when my package arrives"
    Thank you gov't for protecting us from ourselves :facepalm:
     
  15. klamathkid

    klamathkid Full Member

    May 5, 2010
    Alabama
    Banning tobacco sales through the mail is not about underage smokers -- it's about state taxes. Actually, it's specifically about New York state taxes.

    A number of years ago there were many internet cigarette sellers. New York forced most of them out of business by insisting on a list of their customers, which the Senecas refused to do. The Seneca Indians in New York were pretty much the last of the internet sellers. The interesting angle in all this is that New York is a small state. The Senecas are in upper state New York. It's easy to drive to the reservation, so to stop New Yorkers from doing this a way had to be found to shut down the entire Seneca operation.

    New York got the credit card companies to refuse internet payments for cigarettes. The Senecas set up an e-check system. Then New York got UPS and all the other shippers, except USPS, to agree not to ship internet cigarettes. The Senecas then shipped exclusively USPS when they had been shipping UPS. The only way for New York to shut down the Senecas was to ban cigarette shipments via USPS -- which they got.

    I read the PACT bill. It says that Federal and State taxes were being avoided by internet cigarette sales. I think this is what bothers me the most because it is NOT true. The Seneca Indians were indeed paying Federal taxes. My packs all have had a Federal Tax stamp on the bottom of the pack. Our congress voted on this LIE and the President signed it!!

    True State taxes were being avoided -- but nearly all mail order sales avoid state sales taxes. This has always been true even before the internet when catalog sales were in its heyday!! In this state sale taxes are nearly 9% while cigarette excise taxes are only 2 cents a pack.

    The image of underage smokers buying cigarettes by mail is laughable at best. In order to make my first purchase from the Senecas I had to send them a photocopy of my driver's license for proof of age.

    I asked my 18-year-old non-smoker granddaughter about underage smokers she knows and buying through the mail. She shook her head and said, "Not a chance." To buy through the mail you have to have a bank account for an e-check and you have to buy in some quantity to get a decent rate on the shipping. Never will happen with kids. I also asked her about kids and e-cigs. She laughed when I told her that it would take a credit card and at least a $50 purchase just to get started. Kids buy one pack at a time -- that's all. They do not even buy a carton at a time. They are certainly NOT going to fork out $50-$100 at a time on e-cigs.

    This latest with e-cigs is because people are actually QUITTING cigarettes. OMG. The cigarette companies, the states with prohibitive cigarette excise taxes, the purveyors of quit-smoking devices that do not work, and the FDA, the pawn of these entities, are not happy. None of them actually want anyone to quit smoking!! And they especially do not want you to ENJOY quitting!! What if this e-cig business got out of hand and 50% or more of smokers switched? There would still be money being made but NOT going into their pockets!! Follow the money, it will always lead to the truth.
     
  16. Kasperkills

    Kasperkills Full Member

    May 20, 2010
    Houston TX
    I wish that I knew a way to just stop this crap. :(
     
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