SAFTA, but membership is optional for vendors. I don't know that they technically represent anyone who isn't a member. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.
FDA FDA to BAN/RESTRICT Vaping UNLESS...
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SAFTA, but membership is optional for vendors. I don't know that they technically represent anyone who isn't a member. If I'm wrong someone please correct me.
I want to share the FTV site,but until Rip or someone can say they had taken care of the issues on their site, more than saying,"it's been handled".
Just can't do it.
Because when i start to get crap from people i shared something with,"it's been handled" just won't cut it..
To me it sounds like another weapon to use in the fight by the community.
But have to know that the people i am sharing it will will feel secure, otherwise i get cut off from being able to share with them anymore for lack of their trust in me..
i just wish i could find something where they say the site has been corrected and security is in place or restored or something..
until then i have to hold off,as much as i want to share it right now..
Just can't do it.
Because when i start to get crap from people i shared something with,"it's been handled" just won't cut it..
To me it sounds like another weapon to use in the fight by the community.
But have to know that the people i am sharing it will will feel secure, otherwise i get cut off from being able to share with them anymore for lack of their trust in me..
i just wish i could find something where they say the site has been corrected and security is in place or restored or something..
until then i have to hold off,as much as i want to share it right now..
And there's the difference of opinion we have with the FTV methods. From past experience, we think that even once people use that "simple and easy tool" they still "wouldn't have done much in terms of advocacy or fighting." It's a feel-good, "arm chair advocacy" tool that will have no impact because it is too simple and too watered down. It's just a fancy petition that takes a shotgun approach.
That is MY OPINION, of course. People can feel free to disagree with me, but just as I cannot force someone to NOT do it (I honestly don't care if they do, so long as they follow through with the CASAA CTAs too), people shouldn't be trying to force us TO do it. But since we represent our membership and they look to us for our opinion, we will give that opinion. And the more people who support CASAA and do the CASAA CTAs, is that not also a show of our strength in numbers?
CASAA isn't advising people NOT to do it, just that (at best) we don't feel it's going to accomplish much of anything if they do and (at worst) it could keep people from submitting the more comprehensive comments to the FDA and Congress that (we obviously feel) could actually have an effect. Obviously, if someone is convinced that sending a stack of papers to the FDA and Congress with personal stories and a form letter is the most effective thing we can do, than you'll disagree with that asessment. Can sending that stack of papers hurt the cause? Most likely not, so long as they are filtered for spam and other tomfoolery. But leading people to believe that is ALL they need to do COULD hurt the cause and the work CASAA has been doing. The FTV website says "Here is your opportunity to take action" like it's the only opportunity they have and I've seen posts and videos saying "That's all you need to do, FTV will do the rest!" Obviously, CASAA doesn't agree that is true nor the best course of action.
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SFATA, AEMSA, TVECA, ECIG, CASAA, AVA, etc., technicaly "represent" their members, but often the work SFATA and CASAA does ends up helping the vaping community as a whole (ie. fighting local and state bans, supplying tools and funding research). FTV has made it clear they are not an orgnization representing anyone, just a group who created the submission form website. Although, the FTV site does contain a lot of links to vendors, so some ANTZ may dismiss the "movement" is just astroturfing, which was another concern CASAA had.
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I just filled out the form and gave them my story on how vaping got me to finally quit after 30 years of smoking. What was worrisome to me, was seeing how many people have done this so far. we only have a few weeks left, and we are nowhere near the number of signatures needed. If anyone knows of ways to get this out to more people, PLEASE do so, send the link to friends and family, even if they do not vape and ask them to please help. Send them to all your vaping suppliers and ask them to put a link on their websites. We are running out of time my friends, we really need to get this out to the masses !!!
This is an outright attack. The 'CASAA isn't advising people NOT to do it' (later edited for bold), is so transparent CYA, when everything else you say discourages. 'so long as they are filtered for spam and other tomfoolery'? Why add that? Are you suggesting they're doing that? Do you have evidence? Couldn't someone say the same thing about CASAA submissions as a precautionary note?
What's with the 'personal stories and form letter' part? Did you even read the "Take Action" page?? It has a few preliminary questions and then a space for links and 6000 words - with a line about how the regulations will affect you, unlike the CASAA CTA #1:
Dear Mr. Zeller:
I am writing as an individual consumer to request an extension of the comment period for the Food and Drug Administration's ("FDA") Proposed Rule Deeming Tobacco Products to be Subject to the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as amended by the Family Smoking and Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (the "Proposed Rule") published at 79 Fed. Reg. 23,142 and Federal Register No. 2014-09491. On behalf of myself, I am requesting that the comment period for the Proposed Rule be extended by the FDA for an additional 105 days, from its current 75-day period, to 180 days.
The Proposed Rule raises a number of significant issues and questions that are important and relevant to me, as a consumer of products that are proposed for regulation under the Proposed Rule. The Proposed Rule asks about a hundred different questions I might want to respond to. I want to provide my thoughts and comments on many of these issues, but my time to devote to researching and providing thoughtful comments on these important questions is limited. [and that's only half of it].
THAT Kristin IS a form letter. Oh yeah, you put in to 'make it your own' - but look at the difference - a 6000 word box to type in what one wants to say vs. the above. Which looks more like a form letter to you? Something where there's a box to type in what you want to say or something where a long "suggestion" is made? Who are you trying to kid? Anyone comparing the two just on the 'form letter' aspect would have to say that CASAA's is more like a form letter and if so, then according to you - less effective!
You're really not helping your cause out here. I know you think you are, and hopefully you're just doing this on your own, without agreement or urging from the other CASAA officers, but you are not helping your cause with this obvious attack. "It's a feel-good, "arm chair advocacy" tool that will have no impact because it is too simple and too watered down. It's just a fancy petition that takes a shotgun approach."
I expect that type of rhetoric from ANTZ ... sigh.... where is the 'we're all in this together'. People should really take a good look at that and make a comparison to what is on the FTV site and the 'Take Action' page and make some objective conclusions as to what is being said here. I have no association with FTV. I was first to criticize (see above) and they immediately handled my concern within minutes. But you can't come on here and say 'we're not advising people Not to do this' then trashing and actually misleading people - by saying it's a 'form letter' when it's not, and insinuating 'spam and tomfoolery' where there is none, without being so widely transparent that anyone who can read can see exactly what you're doing.
So you are telling me, in your opinion it is a waste of time, and will accomplish nothing and may even hurt the cause, by us telling our senators, congressmen, and the FDA our thoughts and feelings on this issue?
There isn't a set number if signatures needed for anything regarding the FDA, as far as I'm aware. If FTV named a number then it was an arbitrary goal they set on their own.
Why is it an "attack" to answer the question people keep asking about why CASAA isn't endorsing doing it? I keep seeing misinformation and conjecture about CASAA's motives for not endorsing it, should we not say why?
Have you not seen the reports that the page was hacked and people were puting porn and pictures of kittens in as their signature and that was showing up on the "Thank you" page? Wouldn't it be a good idea not to print those out and send them to the FDA and Congress? I wasn't suggesting the organizers were doing that.
Good point, but why would people take the trouble to do multiple CTAs and follow CASAA's guidance only to screw around with it? They are obviously doing it with the FTV form.
The form letter part is checking the boxes, which do not address the questions asked by FDA nor make any specific request to Congress. The CASAA CTA is suggested commentary also designed to help inform the vapers who wil be submitting the form by providing the facts. DO you realy think most people using it will make 6,000 word comments beyond their own story? Based on what we've seen over the past few years, it's unlikely. Is the FDA asking for personal stories? Will is even care?
You're really not helping your cause out here. I know you think you are, and hopefully you're just doing this on your own, without agreement or urging from the other CASAA officers, but you are not helping your cause with this obvious attack. "It's a feel-good, "arm chair advocacy" tool that will have no impact because it is too simple and too watered down. It's just a fancy petition that takes a shotgun approach."
I said it was my opinion.
We AREN'T telling people not to do it. I've been just explaining why CASAA isn't doing it (and why I'm not doing it), because the speculation I've been reading has been way off base. How do I do explain why CASAA isn't doing it without pointing out the issues we have with it?
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How you came to that conclusion!!?
Didn't you see in bold the "CASAA isn't advising people NOT to do it," This is my point - how could anyone not see this as you have. That IS what she is telling you.
NO, I'm not saying that. I specifically said I wasn't saying that. I'm saying that it would be bad if they ONLY did this form.
How you came to that conclusion!!?
This is my point - how could anyone not see this as you have. That IS what she is telling you.
I also said :
This is an outright attack. The 'CASAA isn't advising people NOT to do it' (later edited for bold), is so transparent CYA, when everything else you say discourages. 'so long as they are filtered for spam and other tomfoolery'? Why add that? Are you suggesting they're doing that? Do you have evidence? Couldn't someone say the same thing about CASAA submissions as a precautionary note?
What's with the 'personal stories and form letter' part? Did you even read the "Take Action" page?? It has a few preliminary questions and then a space for links and 6000 words - with a line about how the regulations will affect you, unlike the CASAA CTA #1:
Dear Mr. Zeller:
I am writing as an individual consumer to request an extension of the comment period for the Food and Drug Administration's ("FDA") Proposed Rule Deeming Tobacco Products to be Subject to the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act, as amended by the Family Smoking and Prevention and Tobacco Control Act (the "Proposed Rule") published at 79 Fed. Reg. 23,142 and Federal Register No. 2014-09491. On behalf of myself, I am requesting that the comment period for the Proposed Rule be extended by the FDA for an additional 105 days, from its current 75-day period, to 180 days.
The Proposed Rule raises a number of significant issues and questions that are important and relevant to me, as a consumer of products that are proposed for regulation under the Proposed Rule. The Proposed Rule asks about a hundred different questions I might want to respond to. I want to provide my thoughts and comments on many of these issues, but my time to devote to researching and providing thoughtful comments on these important questions is limited. [and that's only half of it].
THAT Kristin IS a form letter. Oh yeah, you put in to 'make it your own' - but look at the difference - a 6000 word box to type in what one wants to say vs. the above. Which looks more like a form letter to you? Something where there's a box to type in what you want to say or something where a long "suggestion" is made? Who are you trying to kid? Anyone comparing the two just on the 'form letter' aspect would have to say that CASAA's is more like a form letter and if so, then according to you - less effective!
You're really not helping your cause out here. I know you think you are, and hopefully you're just doing this on your own, without agreement or urging from the other CASAA officers, but you are not helping your cause with this obvious attack. "It's a feel-good, "arm chair advocacy" tool that will have no impact because it is too simple and too watered down. It's just a fancy petition that takes a shotgun approach."
I have no association with FTV. I was first to criticize (see above) and they immediately handled my concern within minutes. But you can't come on here and say 'we're not advising people Not to do this' then trashing and actually misleading people - by saying it's a 'form letter' when it's not, and insinuating 'spam and tomfoolery' where there is none, without being so widely transparent that anyone who can read can see exactly what you're doing.
Makes me wonder where her loyalties are, and i truly hope that was not the opinion of the CASAA organization as a whole.
The world is full of douchebags and idiots, and the internet gives them a voice.
Prior to the internet these were folks you wouldn't hang around with, but now their noise is always in your face.
Progress has it's downsides.
My (and yes, CASAA's) concern is that too many people will not do anything beyond using this form and that what of what they are submitting will largely be ignored, because it's not what the FDA is asking for and there will not be specific requests being made to Congress.
You could take that as a message to not bother doing it, but that isn't the message I was trying to get across. The most important message is to not JUST do it. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Everything else I said was just an attempt to convey the WHY for those who were asking, not the WHAT as far as doing it. I'm sorry if that wasn't made clear.
You could take that as a message to not bother doing it, but that isn't the message I was trying to get across. The most important message is to not JUST do it. I'm sorry if I didn't make that clear.
Everything else I said was just an attempt to convey the WHY for those who were asking, not the WHAT as far as doing it. I'm sorry if that wasn't made clear.
it was on Rips video on youtube "How We Protect Vaping!!" he said we need to get one million people to sign this
Excuse me? Do you know anything about me other than this conversation -- about one topic -- to imply anything about my loyalties?
And yes, it is the opinion of the CASAA organization as a whole that this FTV action isn't a very good idea, as far as our efforts are concerned. We told the organizers that (and explained our concerns) when they approached us about it a while ago. Our objections to this is no surprise to them.
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Kristen, I know this has to be a frustrating time, and I sympathize.
I did fill out the FTV form, and also have been keeping up with the CASAA CTAs and doing them as well. I think everyone should take care to not put all their eggs into one basket and do as much as possible, for the sake of diversity. Diversifying our reach means a greater chance of survival. There may be inherent conflicts therein, but I think the advantage of sheer numbers far outweighs any problems that could result.
That being said, if CASAA was to issue a formal statement to the effect of feeling "free to do the FTV form as long as you do the CTAs", perhaps some good can be made out of this ridiculous fiasco.
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