FDA v. Triton Distribution

WorksForMe

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I don't know how many people are still here that care about this, but I'll post it anyway. Oral arguments were held today in a Supreme Court case that could save or further destroy vaping.


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zoiDman

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I don't know how many people are still here that care about this, but I'll post it anyway. Oral arguments were held today in a Supreme Court case that could save or further destroy vaping.


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Thank you for posting this WorksForMe.

There's still a Few of us left.
 

zoiDman

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Hi zoid. It had been really quiet around here. I've started posting a little on Vaping360's Discord page, but it's pretty quiet there too.

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Yeah... It's like e-Cigarette forum life has Imploded. And is now just a Shell of what it once was.

:(

Heck... even the Smiley's kinda suck. Like something from Windows 3.11.

LOL
 

WorksForMe

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And tobaccoreporter’s take on the Triton case.

“Elizabeth Hicks, US Affairs Analyst of the Consumer Choice Center, stated that the case underscores the need for “fairness and transparency” in regulatory processes. “The FDA’s blanket denials have placed enormous hurdles on firms providing harm-reduction alternatives, potentially decimating an industry that millions of adult consumers rely on to transition away from smoking traditional cigarettes,” she said.”

https://tobaccoreporter.com/2024/12/02/justices-skeptical-of-fdas-actions-on-vapes/
 

zoiDman

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You would think that seeking, in good faith, to Overturn an en banc ruling where the Majority wrote something like this ...

"Over several years, the Food and Drug Administration (“FDA”) sent manufacturers of flavored e-cigarette products on a wild goose chase.

First, the agency gave manufacturers detailed instructions for what information federal regulators needed to approve e-cigarette products. Just as importantly, FDA gave manufacturers specific instructions on what regulators did not need. The agency said manufacturers’ marketing plans would be “critical” to the success of their applications. And the agency promulgated hundreds of pages of guidance documents, hosted public meetings, and posted formal presentations to its website—all with the (false) promise that a flavored-product manufacturer could, at least in theory, satisfy FDA’s instructions. The regulated manufacturers dutifully spent untold millions conforming their behavior and their applications to FDA’s say-so. Then, months after receiving hundreds of thousands of applications predicated on its instructions, FDA turned around, pretended it never gave anyone any instructions about anything, imposed new testing requirements without any notice, and denied all one million flavored e-cigarette

applications for failing to predict the agency’s volte face. Worse, after telling manufacturers that their marketing plans were “critical” to their applications, FDA candidly admitted that it did not read a single word of the one million plans. Then FDA denied that its voluminous guidance documents and years-long instructional processes meant anything. Why? Because, the agency said, it always reserved the implied power to ignore every instruction it ever gave and to require the very studies it said could be omitted, along with the secret power to not even read the marketing plans it previously said were “critical.” It was the regulatory equivalent of Romeo sending Mercutio on a wild goose chase—and then admitting there never was a goose while denying he even suggested the chase. Cf. William Shakespeare, Romeo and Juliet act 2, sc. 4. FDA justifies its behavior with two principal arguments. First, FDA argues that its years’ worth of regulatory guidance was not worth the paper it was printed on because it was hedged with cautious qualifiers and never guaranteed that any particular submission would be granted. Second, and most disturbingly, FDA argues that its capriciousness should be forgiven as harmless because the agency promises to deny petitioners’ applications even if we remand to make the agency follow the law. Today we reject both propositions. As the Supreme Court recently reminded us: “If men must turn square corners when they deal with the government, it cannot be too much to expect the government to turn square corners when it deals with them.” Niz-Chavez v. Garland, 593 U.S. 155, 172 (2021). No principle is more important when considering how the unelected administrators of the Fourth Branch of Government treat the American people. And FDA’s regulatory switcheroos in this case bear no resemblance to square corners."


... would be a seemingly Insurmountable task. Something that is arguably beyond the realm of common sense. Or even legal comprehension.

Yet that is what is being Argued and asked of the Supreme Court in this case.
 

zoiDman

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That Reg Watch was hard to listen to.

Not because it wasn't Informative or Carefully done. But because it seems almost Outrageous after the Shell Game that the FDA turned the Application Process into to hear Kagan basically say "Look, everyone knew the FDA was going to shaft you. And they must have had a big laugh over all the time and money you, and others, spent. But what's done is done. So why don't you go home and cry into someone else's coffee."

It was also Difficult to listen to Jim McCarthy give the Three "Winning" Scenarios. Because he was right on the Money in that there is only really Two.

And whereas Both are a "Win", neither really benefits anyone in the long term. At least not if Bettering Public Health at the Population Level is the Primary Goal.
 
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