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Federal Judge Says FDA Abdicated their Duty to Regulate E-Cigs

Discussion in 'Vapor4Life' started by Robert T. Tan, May 17, 2019.

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  1. Robert T. Tan

    Robert T. Tan Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2018
    Illinois

    Attached Files:

    • Like Like x 1
  2. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Sounds like someone needs to take that “expert witness” to court and try him for lying to a judge.
     
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    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Robert T. Tan

    Robert T. Tan Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2018
    Illinois
    The fundamental error seems to be that opponents want to address e-cigarettes like tobacco and suppress use at all costs. Their goal should be to promote ecigs for smokers and curtail its use by minors.
     
  4. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    It's that last part about "Curtailing" that is Problematic.

    How, Exactly, is that going to be Done? And to what Level do we say we have done Everything that is Reasonable and Effective?
     
  5. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    At the end of the day my suspicion is everyone knows what has to be done but BT doesn’t want it to be done so it wont. Limit protonated nic to 25mg/ml without a prescription and the problem goes away. Won’t happen though. We get to have the choice between addicted children and no vapes at all and dead grownups :(. Either way BT wins and everyone else’s lives are ruined.

    I guess I’m just not in a very good move at the moment. I just found out I have to take out another mortgage on my house and will never be above water on my loan ironically because I didn’t take lousy enough care of it. Slumlords are subsidized and others are slowly strangled.

    The world is garbage atm.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  6. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I'm confused?

    How, Exactly, does limiting e-Liquids to 25mg/ml make the "Problem" go away?
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  7. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Because as has been proved in Britain if you limit the nic level of “salts” kids aren’t interested in them anymore and “for GOD’S sake! SAVE THE CHILDREN!!” Has been the rallying cry of this whole thing. Everyone knows how to save the children because people in other countries have already DONE it. Actually doing it though is something no one is actually interested in doing though even though they can. Too much money being handed out.
     
  8. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I believe the Numbers in the UK look better because they are Reporting Numbers that are Closer to the Truth than what is reported in the USA.

    That, and there Doesn't seem to be Media Frenzy/Political tail wagging of the Dog.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  9. bombastinator

    bombastinator ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2010
    MN USA
    Either way. Real numbers in the USA are bad enough though. They don’t even need to inflate them to make them bad.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  10. Robert T. Tan

    Robert T. Tan Moved On ECF Veteran

    Nov 5, 2018
    Illinois
    I tend to agree with bombastinator. From everything i've seen and read, closed pods with high nicotine are what kids prefer, and mint Juul is the most popular. Sadly, it is pretty easy to envision a scenario where my access to sweet ejuices is curtailed and closed mint pod systems remain available at every gas station.

    This is because you have a discussion being driven by anti-vapers who are simply obsessed with sweet ejuice flavors.

    Unrelated speculation, I wonder if the erroneous association of dessert/fruit freebase nicotine vape juice and underage vaping is due to the fact a 220w mod is far more visible, and a kid using one is much more likely to be caught than a minor using a closed pod system. Therefore, such devices would be overrepresented when schools and/or parents take an inventory the various vaping devices they confiscate.

    I wish there was a way to convince the disengaged majority and good faith actors who are worried about teen vaping that they are focusing on the wrong thing when they complain about flavors.
     
  11. zoiDman

    zoiDman My -0^10 = Nothing at All* ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 16, 2010
    So-Cal
    I think Many see Causality between JUUL and Teen Vaping. With all the Media Hype surrounding JUUL, this is No real surprise. But the Real Question that should be asked is it Exclusive Causality?

    Can a Reasonable argument be made that if JUUL didn't exist, Teens wouldn't be using an e-Cigarette? I Don't believe that argument can be made. Because (IMO) if it wasn't JUUL, it would have been some other Brand.

    Just like I Don't think the Argument that if Flavored e-Liquids were removed from the Market, that Teen Use would stop.
     
    • Agree Agree x 1
  12. Letitia

    Letitia Citrus Junkie ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2017
    West Frankfort, IL
    Around here more teens go for big gear and big clouds, most seem to be using 0-3mg. Pods are used by some but not the majority.
     
    • Informative Informative x 1
  13. sonicbomb

    sonicbomb Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 17, 2015
    1187 Hundertwasser
    Juul pods are very easy to refill.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1

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