Fibromyalgia & Lactic Acid

[Kamanjah]

Just curious, anyone else here who has fibro and uses e-cigs? Some researchers believe the processes that cause fibro and chronic fatigue result in the production of excess lactic acid. That's an over simplification of the whole theory but will serve to start a discussion of how your fibro/chronic fatigue has been since you started e-cigs.

I'm still evaluating how I'm feeling, but have found that drinking even more water than I did before seems to help me feel better....and I drink over a gallon a day.

It will be easier to evaluate once the winter weather is over though!

 

[GabbyD]

I have fibro and yes, I've had a much harder time lately, but like you I can't really evaluate things until warm weather returns. It's just hard to say at this point.

 

[TxTrouble]

I have fibro as well. Just as you two its hard to tell due to the cold weather as well.
D

 

[Sun Vaporer]

As PG breaks down to produce LA, whereas VG metabolism is a glucouse breakdown. So if you switch to a NON-PG based e-liquid like Johnson Creek Smoke juice, there should be no issue. I started out of the box using VG to avoid any issues. Happy vaping and hope it does not bother you too much

 

[TxTrouble]

Sun Vaporer. Thanks for the information.
D

 

[RedLotusTX]

I started to post on this when I first started vaping - but had no idea there would be so many others that might be interested or effected.

I have been living with fibromyalgia for about 12 years (and have been diagnosed with lupus as well) and about day 4 of vaping I could barely get up and around. I was in so much pain I knew I was having a major flare - but had no idea as to what could have caused it. I have been living with this disease long enough to understand my personal "triggers" and couldn't think of anything that I had done that would have caused such as crisis.

I had been perusing this forum for some time - but never really paid any attention to the "Health & Safety" threads but I decided that since vaping was the only thing new I had been doing it might be a good time to do that.

It was then that I found TB's post about PG converting to lactic acid. (BTW - Thank you so much TB for that post and ALL you contribute to our new lifestyle!!!).

One of the mechanisms of fibro is that the body in unable to process lactic acid (and phosphorus too in case anyone cares) in the natural way causing it to build up when exercising, in times of stress and as I found out - when vaping.

My immediate solution was to get some VG and cut my liquid by half with it - but that left me with less nicotine than I needed so I immediately ordered the non PG from Johnson Creek and tried it. It was a good stop gap for me - but I have since begun DIYing and have found that by using the 36mg and then diluting it down to about 12 mg I am able to create a better liquid for myself and that small amount of PG doesn't seem to effect me as the pure product did.

 

[Silver]

Hi all,

I too suffer from Fibromyalgia (have done for well over 20 years, but only got a diagnosis about 4 years ago; before then was told many times by various doctors over the years that I couldn't be feeling any pain or discomfort as there was nothing physically wrong with me and it was all 'between the ears', sound familiar ??) and have been E-vaping for about 8 months now.

Although it's difficult for me to know what exactly exacerbates my condition, when I look back over the last year or so, my condition seems to indeed have worsened and it's not impossible that this is due to the PG in the carts I vape (6 mg).

Unfortunately I don't use the dripping method and AFAIK the Non PG liquid doesn't come in the penstyle carts that I use, so I haven't really been able to find an alternative. I guess in a way perhaps I didn't really want to know about the potentially negative effects of PG on Fibro, as this has been such a great way for me to stop smoking tobacco . As it stands the effects of the condition are so bad anyway, I'd still rather do this than smoke tobacco again, does that sound crazy ?

May I ask; how severe is the condition for you and are you using any medication at all ? Although I was always reluctant to try medicating as I was worried about dependancy (am already addicted to nicotine, that's bad enough !), I started on Nortriptylene about 4 months ago and it has had some beneficial effects on my sleeping, but not much on the pain. I'm wondering what other people's experiences are with medication ?

As for E-vaping; has the fact that it apparently has a negative effect on this condition stopped you from doing it and if so, did you go back to smoking tobacco or ... ??

Great to be able to share some experiences of this here !

Cheers,
Silver

 

[NicoNut]

Hi all!
Thanks for starting this thread Kaman! I've had Fibro for 17 years, and been on disability with it for about 15 years. Sorry we all have this pain and fatigue in common!
I've only been vaping for a little over 2 weeks. The first week or so I felt better than I had in years...more energy, etc. Could of been just the newness and excitement over being able to breathe again AC(after cigarettes).
The last few days have been rough and very painful. I was blaming it on sitting in this chair so long, addicted to this forum also! I do feel this is part of it, just hard to break away when I'm learning so much! So I am now trying to limit myself and get up and move around more, which is helping somewhat.
Thank you all for your info and advice! The lactic acid from the PG could definately be a factor. It's also been raining here, with lots of new fronts moving in the last few days. Come on Spring!

Red Lotus where do you get your VG?

Thanks!
Julie

 

[Sun Vaporer]

Hi all!
Thanks for starting this thread Kaman! I've had Fibro for 17 years, and been on disability with it for about 15 years. Sorry we all have this pain and fatigue in common!
I've only been vaping for a little over 2 weeks. The first week or so I felt better than I had in years...more energy, etc. Could of been just the newness and excitement over being able to breathe again AC(after cigarettes).
The last few days have been rough and very painful. I was blaming it on sitting in this chair so long, addicted to this forum also! I do feel this is part of it, just hard to break away when I'm learning so much! So I am now trying to limit myself and get up and move around more, which is helping somewhat.
Thank you all for your info and advice! The lactic acid from the PG could definately be a factor. It's also been raining here, with lots of new fronts moving in the last few days. Come on Spring!

Red Lotus where do you get your VG?

Thanks!
Julie

Julie, you can buy VG in most health food stores and some pharmacys. Be sure it is at least food grade. Very cheap--I buy NOW and 16 oz (473 ml) is 7 dollars!! Happy Vaping

 

[RedLotusTX]

Hi Julie

I got my current stock of VG at Hobby Lobby - it's Wilton - and you can get it in the cake/candy making section there or anywhere else that carries those type of things I would suppose. 2 oz was $2.18. I understand that NOW foods also carries a larger bottle and I will probably find that when my current supply is gone. I have a Vitamin Shoppe near me - but they don't carry it in the store - but another health food store near you might have some as well.

Another thing I have started doing again is taking organic raw apple cider vinegar (Bragg's is the best) and honey twice a day. The ACV helps to neutralize the LA and is a general detoxifying tonic for fibro, arthritis and a myriad of other "ailments" as well. 2 Tbs of the vinegar mixed with 2 Tbs honey seem to do the trick for me. I used to take this all the time when I was going to the gym on a regular basis and found it was easy and fast help in moving me out of the crisis the PG began.

One of the reasons our bodies can't process the LA is because of a breakdown in the Krebs cycle that produces ATP. The toxins from smoking tobacco also inhibit that process - so one of the main goals in managing the disease is to pump up the body's ability to create ATP. This may not be the place to go into a full discussion of "treatments" that can help with that - but anyone who is suffering with this "malady" might want to look into ribose/creatine/amino acids/CoQ10 for avenues of relief. You can Google fibro any one of these to find a wealth of info.

As a retired RN and holistic healer I have been managing my disease for most of it's course with natural solutions as opposed to medications. I find that works best for me - and while I still have a tendency to lapse when I get to feeling good - it keeps me more in tune with my body when things do start to feel wrong.

I am very aware that I am addicted to the "habit" and the menthol kick of smoking even more than the nicotine - and while I have quit many times for weeks and even years - that is what always traps me again. I am so HAPPY to have found that vaping is the perfect solution for me - and am hoping that I will be able to continue to do it - and never have to smoke another nasty stinky analog cigarette again!

 

[NicoNut]

Thanks so much Red and Sun! Sure we have Hobby Lobby, Walmart, and plenty of Health Food (Life Grocery) Stores. I'll try anything, just don't ask me to quit vapin'! I lost count of all my failed attempts at quitting the cigs...never made it years, 6 months was my longest.

I do most of my shopping at the Herb Shop...those are my meds! I get advice and product from those ladies, way more than doctors! Cheaper in the long run, but mainly because it works! Colostrum has helped me the most over the years.

It's wild that you mention the vinegar and honey...my mom has been doing that for most of her adult life. She's 77 and so healthy, looks great, walks 3 miles a day and is never sick! She runs circles around me. I didn't know it would help fibro though, she'll be thrilled!

Thanks again!

 

[mimi]

Me, too, me too!! (There are SO many Fibro sufferers around...!). Have had Fibromyalgia, CFS, Lupus, etc for 15 years and on disability. I *know* stopping smoking would help everything. I used PG the first 6 weeks or so and couldn't really tell much difference in pain levels. However, I did have a big bad pounding heart beat. I first thought it was too much nic, but now, after much experimenting, believe it was the PG. I, too went to Hobby Lobby for VG. But I still have to add a little PG with nic or it'll be back to the analogs........It seems to be better now.

I'm waiting breathlessly for my order of VG samples from Johnson Creek. Hopefully I can get some low nic, VG and flavor at the same time with no PG. Woo-hoo!!

 

[bitey]

I know that this is a really old thread, but I was thrilled when someone posted a link to it. (Sorry, I forget who - but, Thank You big!) I have had diagnosable fibro for 29 years, which just happens to be half my life. Looking back, I realize I had symptoms before that, but it wasn't such a classic pattern of symptoms.

I, too, tried PG when I first started vaping and little by little my pain intensified to the point that I was fairly nonfunctional. I didn't want it to be the vaping and kept looking for weather triggers. Then, I read a post about the lactic acid. OMG, I hadn't known that! Thankfully, a couple of members pointed me in the direction of VG, and I am doing well on it. One day, after a couple of months of VG only, I filled one catridge with my favorite PG apple flavor (right before I put it in a box with all of the other vaping supplies I was mailing to my stepson). I didn't think one catridge full could hurt. Boy, was I wrong! It was amazing how quickly the pain increased in intensity.

I now vape VG only, except for flavorings that may have a small bit of PG in them. That amount I seem to be able to tolerate. I use JC (of course) and also get naked VG (for nicotine) from two sites to cut with plain VG and a flavoring.

I do some traditional medicine for my fibro both in terms of meds and trigger point injections once or twice a year. Both work together to help me keep going.

Thanks to all of you for being in this thread. If I can help any of you with information of any sort, please feel free to shoot me a PM.

 

[brownbrown4]

i was about to post a thread about using Vg instead of PG... and i found this thread........i've been vaping for going on 3 weeks now... and this week has been really really rough... my lower back has gone into a constant Lactic acid burn... i work out pretty heavily(lol P90x) , and i attributed the pain to a workout... but 2 days later im still having the pain. couldn't run today because of it... it's taking a big toll on my workout plans! i cant stop working out(on a strict schedule) and i dont want to go back to analogs.....
As far as i know i dont have Fibromyalgia , but now im worried!!! .... Crap!!!!
that would go well with my UC!!! ugh

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

I am having no negative reaction to vaping or to PG (and I don't have fibromyalgia).

However, my wife (a life-long non-smoker and non-vaper) does have fibromyalgia, lactose intolerance, and multiple sclerosis (and generally a very sensitive system). About 2 weeks into my vaping, the tightness in her chest that she sometimes experiences flared up (and has continued). [That tightness first flared up about 10 years ago after some acupuncture sessions.]

The timing of this recent occurance coincided with my starting to fill cartridges of my new DSE801 penstyle with e-liquid (and some DIY mixing). [Previously I had been vaping a KR808D-1 with prefilled cartomizers.]

I have since moved out to the patio to do all my vaping (just as I did with my analog smoking) and I store all my liquids in a sealed container (which I don't open until out on the patio). We believe/hope that her chest tightness has eased a bit.

I am not 100% sure that her recent problem is due to my vaping. For 2 weeks, I had vaped (virtually chain-vaped) in the same room as she with no problem. The past week or so the heat and humidity (and rain) here in South Florida have been unusually high. Perhaps the pollen count has been high as well, but I don't know.

Ironically, she seemed to have the most intense reaction when I mixed spearmint flavor (intense) with VG.

We are a very committed couple (married 32 years), so her health and well-being is extremely important to me. At the same time, I am really enjoying the vaping experience and would like to vape more often (i.e., inside), not just during outside "smoke breaks."

Does anyone here know of any instances of reactions to second-hand vape? Or have any suggestions?

Thanks!

 

[DonDaBoomVape]

...Colostrum has helped me the most over the years.

NicoNut posted this some time ago and I'm not sure whether s/he still hangs out around here. But perhaps others might know.

As a male, I've never been pregnant. And neither has my wife. So I know very little about mother's milk.

But I thought that a pregant woman and brand new mother expresses colostrum prior to the milk coming in. Therefore I associate colostrum with milk (i.e., lactic acid). Is it the case that colostrum does not contain lactic acid?

[See my immediately preceding post for reassurance that my question is not based in prurient interest. ]

Thanks!

 

[TropicalBob]

Don, I really think (and hope) there is no association between your second-hand vapor and your wife's nasty reaction. Because .. if what you said is an accurate side effect, then the FDA has everything it needs to ban e-cigs and e-liquid on that basis ALONE.

We have always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that our vaping actions affected only us. If others are affected, there is only one regulatory action to take on guilty new products. I certainly hope it is not your exhaled vapor causing her problems. Keep us posted.

 

[happily]

Don, I really think (and hope) there is no association between your second-hand vapor and your wife's nasty reaction. Because .. if what you said is an accurate side effect, then the FDA has everything it needs to ban e-cigs and e-liquid on that basis ALONE.

We have always assumed, perhaps incorrectly, that our vaping actions affected only us. If others are affected, there is only one regulatory action to take on guilty new products. I certainly hope it is not your exhaled vapor causing her problems. Keep us posted.

Yes we all hope it's not, and if it is post it here and then never speak of it again. lol ( you know what happened to jimmy hoffa) jk

 

[greyeyes]

I am having no negative reaction to vaping or to PG (and I don't have fibromyalgia).

However, my wife (a life-long non-smoker and non-vaper) does have fibromyalgia, lactose intolerance, and multiple sclerosis (and generally a very sensitive system). About 2 weeks into my vaping, the tightness in her chest that she sometimes experiences flared up (and has continued). [That tightness first flared up about 10 years ago after some acupuncture sessions.]

The timing of this recent occurance coincided with my starting to fill cartridges of my new DSE801 penstyle with e-liquid (and some DIY mixing). [Previously I had been vaping a KR808D-1 with prefilled cartomizers.]

I have since moved out to the patio to do all my vaping (just as I did with my analog smoking) and I store all my liquids in a sealed container (which I don't open until out on the patio). We believe/hope that her chest tightness has eased a bit.

I am not 100% sure that her recent problem is due to my vaping. For 2 weeks, I had vaped (virtually chain-vaped) in the same room as she with no problem. The past week or so the heat and humidity (and rain) here in South Florida have been unusually high. Perhaps the pollen count has been high as well, but I don't know.

Ironically, she seemed to have the most intense reaction when I mixed spearmint flavor (intense) with VG.

We are a very committed couple (married 32 years), so her health and well-being is extremely important to me. At the same time, I am really enjoying the vaping experience and would like to vape more often (i.e., inside), not just during outside "smoke breaks."

Does anyone here know of any instances of reactions to second-hand vape? Or have any suggestions?

Thanks!

Don - with having the same health issues as your wife, plus Rheumatoid Arthritis to boot, I'm inclined to think that the recent flare your wife experienced could be due in large part to the weather and maybe mold spores because of all of the rain and heat. We had almost three days of training rain showers up here this week and it wreaked havoc on me.

I vape VG 75% of the time and it hasn't bothered me but everybody's system is different. I would think that if she was going to have a flare-up from "secondhand VG vapor," it would've happened before now, IMO.

Hope she feels better soon.

 

[Advaita]

Adding my two cents or anecdotal evidence...

I avoid doctors and medical tests, so I've never been formally diagnosed with fibro, but have had the symptoms for ages and think I probably do have it. Anyway, I only vaped for a short while before giving up and turning to snus, but I did have a horrible pain flareup after a few days of vaping. I didn't attribute it to PG or vaping at the time, but after reading this, I think it's possible that the PG was a factor.