Flavor bans pave the way for IQOS

[Eskie]

this may be true. I was working off the protections for tobacco products. The issue is the iQOS is a two part device. There is the heater, and then there are the “cigarettes” that aren’t, really, which you Insert into it that take the place of vape juice. The cigarettes are technically cogarettes though and as far as I can tell are both where literally everything comes from, and are more or less immune from any sort of legislation. I could be wrong about that though. . Traditional cigarettes are not all that hard to mod. It’s not often done in the USA because BT doesn’t like it, but outside of North America it’s not uncommon.

Various ways I know of off the top of my head right this second without any research:
use something other than an approved insert is the easiest one. They’re basically shredded paper soaked in juice. The paper is made from tobacco leaves which makes them technically cigarettes but just about anything could be used. There’s other stuff too. Dipping is one. That’s a traditional way to treat cigarettes and would work just as well. Another traditional cigarette method is spikes which are pushed into the end of the cigarette. Then there’s machine hand rolls. @stolls seems to know about those. There’s also whatever the cigarette smugglers come up with. Sky’s the limit there.

Everything you just described would be aftermarket "modding" on the device and insert HEET fake tobacco stuff in it. The stuff is sold in a sealed package, and the manufacturer can't make any changes to the approved device/heat sticks/whatever, without FDA approval. They couldn't add 5 drops of water to it without filing an addendum for approval prior to sale.

Well, they could, but if the FDA found out they could issue a warning letter, and if they felt it represented a significant and potentiality dangerous modification or one that altered it's harm reduction "properties", order it off the market. Given the attention that will be focused, I doubt Altria will make a single misstep because there is little doubt how fast the FDA would slam the door shut on anything that might affect a smoking device they approved as a harm reduction product.

 

[bombastinator]

Everything you just described would be aftermarket "modding" on the device and insert HEET fake tobacco stuff in it. The stuff is sold in a sealed package, and the manufacturer can't make any changes to the approved device/heat sticks/whatever, without FDA approval. They couldn't add 5 drops of water to it without filing an addendum for approval prior to sale.

Well, they could, but if the FDA found out they could issue a warning letter, and if they felt it represented a significant and potentiality dangerous modification or one that altered it's harm reduction "properties", order it off the market. Given the attention that will be focused, I doubt Altria will make a single misstep because there is little doubt how fast the FDA would slam the door shut on anything that might affect a smoking device they approved as a harm reduction product.

So any non manufacturer produced “HEET sticks” which are completely enclosed by the device and therefore invisible when in use, or anything that could be “done” to a new or expended “HEET” stick. How long does the patent last on “HEET stick” dimensions BTW? Iirc the basic design is actually quite old. They’ve been throwing new patents on top, but it’s the basic ones that matter

 

[stols001]

Okay first of all I dislike the whole "choose your country." I chose Croatia. Just you know, I figured the less regulation the better.

It was still totally opaque.

And, I ALSO meant (sorry for being dense I guess) like ALL the billions of horrible things added to tobacco to make it more addictive? HEETS website or whatever would have you believe it is the finest tobacco known to mankind.

I mean though, if like Nat Shermans (mmm gotta vape up, Walmart) have to advertise their additive FREENESS, I guess there is like no easily accessible list of the additive mess in other brands like Camels (I have heard they are particualarly egregious).

So heets can use the REALLY bad tobacco is what I'm asking I guess. I'd almost rather have the husband smoke additive free. My docs said it was probably why I wasn't DEAD yet. LOL.

That is sort of what I am asking. Tobacco is a kind of nebulous concept for me.
Anna

 

[AngeNZ]

Okay first of all I dislike the whole "choose your country." I chose Croatia. Just you know, I figured the less regulation the better.

It was still totally opaque.

And, I ALSO meant (sorry for being dense I guess) like ALL the billions of horrible things added to tobacco to make it more addictive? HEETS website or whatever would have you believe it is the finest tobacco known to mankind.

I mean though, if like Nat Shermans (mmm gotta vape up, Walmart) have to advertise their additive FREENESS, I guess there is like no easily accessible list of the additive mess in other brands like Camels (I have heard they are particualarly egregious).

So heets can use the REALLY bad tobacco is what I'm asking I guess. I'd almost rather have the husband smoke additive free. My docs said it was probably why I wasn't DEAD yet. LOL.

That is sort of what I am asking. Tobacco is a kind of nebulous concept for me.
Anna

Here's what I've found Anna:

New Type of E-Cig as Bad as Regular Cigarette for Your Lungs

6 important things to know about IQOS

Comparison of Chemicals in Mainstream Smoke in Heat-not-burn Tobacco and Combustion Cigarettes. - PubMed - NCBI

A Device That Heats Tobacco, But Doesn't Burn It, Can Now Be Sold in the U.S. Here's What to Know About IQOS

 

[bombastinator]

Okay first of all I dislike the whole "choose your country." I chose Croatia. Just you know, I figured the less regulation the better.

It was still totally opaque.

And, I ALSO meant (sorry for being dense I guess) like ALL the billions of horrible things added to tobacco to make it more addictive? HEETS website or whatever would have you believe it is the finest tobacco known to mankind.

I mean though, if like Nat Shermans (mmm gotta vape up, Walmart) have to advertise their additive FREENESS, I guess there is like no easily accessible list of the additive mess in other brands like Camels (I have heard they are particualarly egregious).

So heets can use the REALLY bad tobacco is what I'm asking I guess. I'd almost rather have the husband smoke additive free. My docs said it was probably why I wasn't DEAD yet. LOL.

That is sort of what I am asking. Tobacco is a kind of nebulous concept for me.
Anna

My memory of HEETs from a description that was produced many years ago when they were first being talked about as new tech, long before they even got introduced in Japan, was that what they used was “sheet tobacco”. Sheet tobacco isn’t really even tobacco. It’s paper made from pulped tobacco leaves. It’s a lot like mulberry paper. A Japanese style paper made from mulberry leaves and branches. It’s the very very very cheapest kind of tobacco. The pulping process removes almost everything water soluble and a lot of things that aren’t. Making paper uses various kinds of solvents to render the tree fiber to pulp. Anyway one of them is nicotine, so the nicotine has to be sprayed back onto it. It’s one of the ways that tobacco companies are able to precisely control nicotine levels.
Did the marketers make it sound like it was the “best” tobacco though? My memory goes back to that wonderful marketers description of poutine in the Canadian legislation thread which referred to it as a “fresh root salad” or some such. Marketing is psychological science in pursuit of evil.

 

[Rossum]

And like I said in another thread... "A Day without POLYVINYL ACETATE is like a Day without Smoking."

That's basically Elmer's Glue. I don't see the problem with having some of that in an assembled product if the glue isn't burned.

 

[bombastinator]

That's basically Elmer's Glue. I don't see the problem with having some of that in an assembled product if the glue isn't burned.

IF. Iirc there was an issue with iQOS filters “melting”. According to the wiki Polyvinyl acetate - Wikipedialiquifies at 234f

 

[Rossum]

Here's what I've found Anna:
New Type of E-Cig as Bad as Regular Cigarette for Your Lungs

That publication has other articles that diss other forms of THR including our style of vaping. I'd hardly call this an objective source.

6 important things to know about IQOS

Truth Initiative? Seriously?

Comparison of Chemicals in Mainstream Smoke in Heat-not-burn Tobacco and Combustion Cigarettes. - PubMed - NCBI

OK, now we have something reasonably objective. 80% less TSNAs and 99% less carbon monoxide than combustible cigs.

A Device That Heats Tobacco, But Doesn't Burn It, Can Now Be Sold in the U.S. Here's What to Know About IQOS

Not bad.

We all respect Dr. Farsalinos as being reasonably objective, right?
farsalinos iqos at DuckDuckGo

Continuum of Risk, from least risk to most:
Use no tobacco product.
Vape
Heat-Not-Burn
Smoke

For us to diss IQOS is no different than the cold-turkey people dissing vaping. Remember, vaping does not work for everyone.

 

[Rossum]

IF. Iirc there was an issue with iQOS filters “melting”.

In my admittedly limited use of the product, I've not seen that issue. I would speculate that if this occurs it's due to a malfunction of some sort.

 

[zoiDman]

That's basically Elmer's Glue. I don't see the problem with having some of that in an assembled product if the glue isn't burned.

You know the Old Say'n...

One Man's POLYVINYL ACETATE is another Man's Poison.

 

[stols001]

Tanks for the links! LOL I seriously don't know. I'm not gonna get all up in arms about now one way or another, it's too soon to tell.

I have not been exactly anti the IQOS but I am just irritated with the tobacco companies generally conscripting vaping.

I know it's been used in Japan for a while but meh. Neither super pro nor con at this point.

Anna

 

[bombastinator]

Okay first of all I dislike the whole "choose your country." I chose Croatia. Just you know, I figured the less regulation the better.

It was still totally opaque.

And, I ALSO meant (sorry for being dense I guess) like ALL the billions of horrible things added to tobacco to make it more addictive? HEETS website or whatever would have you believe it is the finest tobacco known to mankind.

I mean though, if like Nat Shermans (mmm gotta vape up, Walmart) have to advertise their additive FREENESS, I guess there is like no easily accessible list of the additive mess in other brands like Camels (I have heard they are particualarly egregious).

So heets can use the REALLY bad tobacco is what I'm asking I guess. I'd almost rather have the husband smoke additive free. My docs said it was probably why I wasn't DEAD yet. LOL.

That is sort of what I am asking. Tobacco is a kind of nebulous concept for me.
Anna

I’ve always thought “Lithuania “ was much more fun to say. There are some good African ones too. How do you possibly beat “djibouti”?