Flavorah Concentrates Cost

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NatashaTMT

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Hey @NatashaTMT If you want more Pineapple, I'd go with cap golden personally. That tfa gets sharp like razor blades to me. The ripe strawberry has maltol in it and will change in a few days. Glad it wasn't (as I think I've read from Stols) 'vomitous'. Did you taste Guava or Grapefruit?
I don’t necessarily have to taste pineapple to know it’s there. (Of course, sometimes we want to taste this or that.) But I think it’s good as is. Being that it’ll change with steeping, idk. Good to know that about the pineapple though. The 8 ml I mixed is gone. Well, I just put the last of it in my tank AND my friend keeps taking my vape because she like's it:laugh: I’ll keep it in mind that RS has maltol. I haven’t intentionally mixed with maltol in over a month. Once I realised it’s muting tendencies, I decided to use other sweeteners if one’s necessary. I’m sure maltol has it’s place though. I’m just not ready to find it yet. Guava comes through well but not too strong. Grapefruit, not so much the actual taste of but maybe undertones. This mix tastes good and definitely not vomitous!

Edit: Half a tank left and now the pineapple is coming through stronger. Still tasting good but slightly stronger. May not have settled enough before I tried earlier or just the couple hr steep. Might be a tad strong for some but I like tasting my juice!
 
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ceeceeisme

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my favourite vendor only carries 1 INW concentrate

You must shop at The Broke Vaper. I've never seen Marula anywhere except directly from Inawera. I buy direct from them all the time - half the price you pay here in Canada, even with the shipping factored in. ;)
 
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ShamrockPat

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    You must shop at The Broke Vaper
    Yes, mainly. He was on my way home, and he was my 1st Canadian vendor when he was predominantly TFA and before he ever had a website. At least I have a Dash close by, but they don't carry many must-haves. I tried shopping at Inawera directly and had nothing but major problems with their site. From not even being able to input my address, either city or province, to not being able to pay by paypal. Communication was dismal. Maybe I'll give them another try ;).
     

    ceeceeisme

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    Yes, mainly. He was on my way home, and he was my 1st Canadian vendor when he was predominantly TFA and before he ever had a website. At least I have a Dash close by, but they don't carry many must-haves. I tried shopping at Inawera directly and had nothing but major problems with their site. From not even being able to input my address, either city or province, to not being able to pay by paypal. Communication was dismal. Maybe I'll give them another try ;).

    I do remember having some problems getting my account set up but when I got it all straightened around it's been smooth sailing ever since. You can use code "INAWERA" on your first order for 15% off. They don't take Paypal so you'll need to use a credit card. They also have pretty regular sales for 15% to 17% off. Once you're on their mailing list they send an email to let you know.
     

    ShamrockPat

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    You can use code "INAWERA" on your first order for 15% off. They don't take Paypal so you'll need to use a credit card
    I did use the code, and my order got glitched and it never made it to paypal. My order was in limbo. When I communicated with them I was told I could not get the first order discount any longer, even though my first never worked. I said F.U. and never looked back.
    I still get the emails.
     

    ceeceeisme

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    I did use the code, and my order got glitched and it never made it to paypal. My order was in limbo. When I communicated with them I was told I could not get the first order discount any longer, even though my first never worked. I said F.U. and never looked back.
    I still get the emails.

    I've heard of that happening to other people too. Can't use North American Paypal there anyway, they have some sort of European Paypal that won't accept our accounts so you need to use Visa.
     

    go_player

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    Flavorah is quite a bit more expensive than other manufacturers flavor concentrates. Is it THAT much “better” or authentic tasting?

    Just curious. Thanks

    Depends on the palate, I suppose, but I find a lot of FLV flavors worth the price. I have a funny palate though, I think- I find a fair number of flavors many people love unreservedly unpleasantly "artificial" and "chemically." I can still often mix with them and get results I like, but I have to be careful in how I use them, and in how I balance them with other flavors.

    Of course FLV's flavors are mainly artificial, and even natural flavors derive their flavor from chemicals (I used scare quotes for a reason,) but I think FLV often does a very good job of rounding off the rough notes in their formulations.

    Wild Melons is a good example of an FLV flavor I think worth every penny if you happen to like a soft natural-tasting melon.

    I happen to like actual natural melon flavors quite a lot in juice, enough that I have often gone to the trouble of mixing with Medicine Flower's melons. You would not consider FLV expensive if you had mixed with MF, but more importantly mixing MF's flavors is tricky, and requires practice and patience.

    Wild Melons is not as good as MF's melons, but boy it's as close as an artificial melon has come for me, and it's easy as pie to mix with. If you gave me some Wild Melons in a blind taste test I might even believe it was a natural melon. It's close, though not _quite_ there.

    And, as has been mentioned already, FLV's flavors are usually fairly concentrated. I'm inclined to think that something like TPA Wild Blueberry is actually more expensive than the average FLV flavor if you use both up. Sure, it's $1.25 for a 10ml, but you're going to have to use 5-10 times as much for the same effect. So that's like paying $6.25-$12.50 for 10ml of the FLV.

    Unfortunately that's not how flavors work, since you want to try lots of small sizes- Gremlin DIY used to carry a lot of rebottled FLV in less expensive 5ml (really 8 ml) sizes that were less expensive, but they seem to have stopped doing that, which is too bad, IMHO. It would be nice if FLV could offer some samplers, given their prices, but I suppose I understand why they don't do so.
     

    BrotherBob

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    Flavorah is quite a bit more expensive than other manufacturers flavor concentrates. Is it THAT much “better” or authentic tasting?
    Can be. I was given a 5 ml bottle of FLV Peanut Butter--(1%M/1%S)--4/5 ELR stars and found it the be almost perfect for my taste. Would have probably never purchased it. Chocolate,vanilla,Cheese cake are the 3 remaining flavors I have yet to find satisfactory. I rather try other highly rated cost effective flavors before I step up to more expensive brands with equal or slightly higher overall ratings.
     

    go_player

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    I have to agree 100% that MF flavors are a pain to deal with and hard to get percentages right. Not to mention long steep times. I will say, there black cherry is pretty good. Only one I ever tried that didnt taste like cough syrup

    They're a pain to work with, and more importantly they haven't been worked with enough that you can just look up what to do with them. But if MF's Honeydew tastes like cough syrup to you you either have an idiosyncratic palate or you're using it wrong. Let me guess- 1% after a week of steeping?

    Yeah, that will taste like cat piss for sure, like using 40% of a TPA flavor would. Let me suggest 0.1%, maybe 0.05% and a two month steep as a starting point. As I said, using MF requires practice and patience.
     

    dc99

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    I've wondered if MF is worth the seemingly higher prices. Sounds like they might be, considering the small percentage required.
    I was surprised to see FLV rich cinnamon at $12.50 for 15 ml. Though again, if you only need mere drops, I'm gonna have to say it's worth it.
    If you want to try MF you can get them at E C X under the name Lotus Flavors. You can dilute them to make them easier to work with.
     

    go_player

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    I've wondered if MF is worth the seemingly higher prices. Sounds like they might be, considering the small percentage required.
    I was surprised to see FLV rich cinnamon at $12.50 for 15 ml. Though again, if you only need mere drops, I'm gonna have to say it's worth it.

    The Rich Cinnamon is very strong. I have some that I got from Gremlin back when they had the little bottles, and I will never use the whole thing up. You would have to like cinnamon vapes a lot to go through a 15ml of it... it would be better for the consumer, IMHO, if FLV sold it at a quarter the strength and half the price. But I suppose they know what pricing model works for them as a vendor. And it is the best bakery style cinnamon I've had, by quite a long shot.
     

    go_player

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    I've wondered if MF is worth the seemingly higher prices. Sounds like they might be, considering the small percentage required.
    I was surprised to see FLV rich cinnamon at $12.50 for 15 ml. Though again, if you only need mere drops, I'm gonna have to say it's worth it.

    And also, about MF... I wouldn't recommend MF to everyone, because not only are the flavors difficult to work with the company itself is a PITA, and despite having at least had a relationship with a juice company in the past (does Virgin Vapors still use their stuff?) they don't seem to want people to vape their flavors.

    Ecigexpress did have an arrangement to sell their stuff under the name Lotus, but that ended quite a while back and ecx is just selling off the remaining stock at this point, I think (so what they have left is the Lotus flavors no one really wants. Just took a look and they do still have some Cantaloupe though...) I'm not privy to the details, but my suspicion is that MF as a company is as hard to work with as their flavors are.

    That said, if you're an experienced mixer, you're looking for something new, and you're willing to put up with some frustration I would recommend experimenting with MF because... their best flavors are, IMHO, qualitatively different from the rest of what's on the market.

    Don't mistake me for someone who thinks that the word "natural" is some sort of magic talisman- many things are better when artificial, as far as I'm concerned. But when it comes to certain flavors... well, the expert flavorists at the flavoring companies work very hard to put 10 different molecules together in just the right proportions to emulate a honeydew melon, and it's amazing how good a job they do of it (especially when you start looking at, say, TFA's spec sheets and realize that the difference between a Pear, an Apple, and a Banana is more about the proportions and the subtle accents than about the main molecules involved. The flavorists are truly wizards.)

    But there's a reason the flavorists are trying to emulate a melon. The plant that produces honeydews has had a very long time to experiment (if you'll forgive me for a bit of anthropomorphizing,) and we have spent quite a while breeding it further. It is not limited to 10 or so molecules. It has in fact done a very good job of figuring out how to make honeydew melons that taste like honeydew melons and I'm inclined to think it is as good at that as is possible.

    The reason I brought MF up is that FLV's Wild Melons is the best artificial melon I've had, at least if you're looking for something like a real melon rather than something like a melon candy (artificial is certainly better if you are looking for a Jolly Rancher- Jolly Ranchers don't grow on trees. They grow on convenience store shelves.) It's an amazingly true flavor. But MF's honeydew is truer, because instead of using flavorists to emulate a melon they have taken the shortcut of just extracting the molecules from the melon in the proportions they occur in in the melon (modulo possible differences in how effectively they are extracted, but I don't imagine that there's a lot of difference there.) No wizardry required- just a lot of melons and the equipment necessary to do Co2 extraction.

    MF's honeydew is probably the "truest" flavor I've vaped, and when done right my favorite standalone flavor. It's round and lush in a way a flavor can only be if it not only gets the 10 main molecules right, but probably dozens more in very small quantities but just the right proportions. I came across it several years ago when I splurged and bought a bottle of Virgin Vapors "Celestial Honeydew," which I think was just MF Honeydew. It was the first really good juice I ever had, come to think of it.

    But- prepare for some heartbreak if you mix with MF. Start low and steep for weeks- I was perhaps exaggerating a bit when I said 0.05% - 0.1%, but not exaggerating when I said 1% is way too high to start with with many MF flavors, and that you can't judge them at all after a week. They come into their own when used low and steeped for a long time. Unfortunately that means that it takes a long time to find out how to use them, especially since so few people have used them (and of the people who have I'm convinced that most have not used them enough to give good advice about them- this is why I am not giving much advice here.) I am still a novice when it comes to MF.
     

    NatashaTMT

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    The Rich Cinnamon is very strong. I have some that I got from Gremlin back when they had the little bottles, and I will never use the whole thing up. You would have to like cinnamon vapes a lot to go through a 15ml of it... it would be better for the consumer, IMHO, if FLV sold it at a quarter the strength and half the price. But I suppose they know what pricing model works for them as a vendor. And it is the best bakery style cinnamon I've had, by quite a long shot.
    Great to know and I agree! Sounds like a good flavor to have. Though I don’t see myself using it in more than 2-3 recipes every now and then.
     

    NatashaTMT

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    And also, about MF... I wouldn't recommend MF to everyone, because not only are the flavors difficult to work with the company itself is a PITA, and despite having at least had a relationship with a juice company in the past (does Virgin Vapors still use their stuff?) they don't seem to want people to vape their flavors.

    Ecigexpress did have an arrangement to sell their stuff under the name Lotus, but that ended quite a while back and ecx is just selling off the remaining stock at this point, I think (so what they have left is the Lotus flavors no one really wants. Just took a look and they do still have some Cantaloupe though...) I'm not privy to the details, but my suspicion is that MF as a company is as hard to work with as their flavors are.

    That said, if you're an experienced mixer, you're looking for something new, and you're willing to put up with some frustration I would recommend experimenting with MF because... their best flavors are, IMHO, qualitatively different from the rest of what's on the market.

    Don't mistake me for someone who thinks that the word "natural" is some sort of magic talisman- many things are better when artificial, as far as I'm concerned. But when it comes to certain flavors... well, the expert flavorists at the flavoring companies work very hard to put 10 different molecules together in just the right proportions to emulate a honeydew melon, and it's amazing how good a job they do of it (especially when you start looking at, say, TFA's spec sheets and realize that the difference between a Pear, an Apple, and a Banana is more about the proportions and the subtle accents than about the main molecules involved. The flavorists are truly wizards.)

    But there's a reason the flavorists are trying to emulate a melon. The plant that produces honeydews has had a very long time to experiment (if you'll forgive me for a bit of anthropomorphizing,) and we have spent quite a while breeding it further. It is not limited to 10 or so molecules. It has in fact done a very good job of figuring out how to make honeydew melons that taste like honeydew melons and I'm inclined to think it is as good at that as is possible.

    The reason I brought MF up is that FLV's Wild Melons is the best artificial melon I've had, at least if you're looking for something like a real melon rather than something like a melon candy (artificial is certainly better if you are looking for a Jolly Rancher- Jolly Ranchers don't grow on trees. They grow on convenience store shelves.) It's an amazingly true flavor. But MF's honeydew is truer, because instead of using flavorists to emulate a melon they have taken the shortcut of just extracting the molecules from the melon in the proportions they occur in in the melon (modulo possible differences in how effectively they are extracted, but I don't imagine that there's a lot of difference there.) No wizardry required- just a lot of melons and the equipment necessary to do Co2 extraction.

    MF's honeydew is probably the "truest" flavor I've vaped, and when done right my favorite standalone flavor. It's round and lush in a way a flavor can only be if it not only gets the 10 main molecules right, but probably dozens more in very small quantities but just the right proportions. I came across it several years ago when I splurged and bought a bottle of Virgin Vapors "Celestial Honeydew," which I think was just MF Honeydew. It was the first really good juice I ever had, come to think of it.

    But- prepare for some heartbreak if you mix with MF. Start low and steep for weeks- I was perhaps exaggerating a bit when I said 0.05% - 0.1%, but not exaggerating when I said 1% is way too high to start with with many MF flavors, and that you can't judge them at all after a week. They come into their own when used low and steeped for a long time. Unfortunately that means that it takes a long time to find out how to use them, especially since so few people have used them (and of the people who have I'm convinced that most have not used them enough to give good advice about them- this is why I am not giving much advice here.) I am still a novice when it comes to MF.
    I must say that initially reading towards the beginning, I was thinking I’m not ready for MF. Then reading further, I want to use them although I know I shouldn’t:laugh: You make them sound irresistable and bad at the same time! I’ll save them for later though. I’m sure I’ll reach that point, eventually, when I need something different. Thank you for this insight!
     

    go_player

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    I must say that initially reading towards the beginning, I was thinking I’m not ready for MF. Then reading further, I want to use them although I know I shouldn’t:laugh: You make them sound irresistable and bad at the same time! I’ll save them for later though. I’m sure I’ll reach that point, eventually, when I need something different. Thank you for this insight!

    Well, I think the main thing is to make things so easy that they present you with little if any frustration, until you _want_ to take on some frustration. My day-to-day life is full of frustrating things I can't opt out of, if I want to keep making money, which I imagine I ought to keep doing. So I try to make the rest of my life as streamlined as possible. Especially when it comes to things I know I should do, but that I can probably get away with not doing on any given day, it's very important that I find a way to make them things I look forward to doing. Otherwise I won't do them.

    Mixing is like that. It's best if it's fun. Frustration can be fun, in a way, as part of a larger project, but it's not something you want to invite into your fun until you have well-established habits. I wouldn't recommend MF before your habits were so well established that a bit of frustration added to the fun. MF Honeydew is great, but it's the opposite of shake and vape.
     

    Raider87

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    From my experience, they have thier good ones and bad ones, just like the other companies.

    Rich Cinnamon is pricey, but very concentrated, also may be the best flavoring I’ve tried, that cinnamon note it has is delicious.

    Wild Mellons is priced more normal and one of the better mellon flavors I’ve had, no off notes, just a great tasting mellon blend.
     
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