For The Ladies

[closetsmokr]

I wasn't saying that anyone was treating me unkindly - I was saying that that was part of a message I received from God. It is factually incorrect to say that NO legislation to protect women was passed or started in the sixties. I already listed three in a previous post.

When the thread was in its early phase, the general term feminism was used. Then it became just the sixties. NOW is referenced even later. NOW wasn't formed until 1966, and they were one smaller piece of feminism overall. The organization didn't reach higher numbers until several years after it was formed.

The historical facts are there for anyone to read about. I just want to make sure that opinions stay separated from facts.

 

[closetsmokr]

This works both ways. We can respectfully agree to disagree, especially on whether information is "disinformation" or not. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but the Word of God is absolute. What is not absolute is how each of us interprets His Word. It is our responsibility to discern wisely.

We can disagree with opinions, but facts are facts.

 

[blondeambition3]

We are talking about the radical/ modern feminists; the card carrying N.O.W. mentality here. They suffragette movement of the early 20th century was political. Feminism is a cultural phenomenon. When the N.O.W. was formed in 1966, women had been voting for forty-six years. Women could buy property, go to the doctor and hire a lawyer. If by discrimination, you mean women were treated differently then men, women are different than men. Sexual harassment is alive and well today. No one has been a slave in this country since 1865. Both men and women are underpaid in relation to cost of living. I don't know what you mean by oppression. If you mean the things you listed, I have just discounted all of them. So women were not oppressed in the 60s. I believe that the period between the end of WWII and the formation of the N.O.W, women in this country had the best standard of living of any time in history.

The N.O.W.'s goal was to get cultural acceptance for immodesty, promiscuity, lesbianism, and abortion. The wanted to immaculate men; John Wayne types are now considered neanderthals. They wanted to shame housewives out of existence by making them feel unfulfilled and oppressed and society think them freeloaders. They wanted to destroy the institution of marriage by labeling it unnecessary and archaic, and making divorce quick, easy, and acceptable. They wanted women to be treated like men, and now women are no longer treated like ladies and we are sending them to the front lines of wars. The organization has been very successful in their goals.

Even if some good that I cannot see came from the movement, the bad that they have done cannot be excused or encouraged. That is like saying that a pot of soup containing chicken, carrots, onions, salt, pepper, and cyanide is good because there are some good things in it.

Be well,
~A

I so agree with this post and thought I might just add.. the 'danger' in anything (Government, movement or otherwise) that ends in 'ism'.... (Communism, socialism, feminism.. what have you) is usually because it is 'Man's way' of trying to do what GOD should be doing.... Man taking GOD out of the equation.... which may be innocent enough in it's origins, seem to somehow always morph into something in complete opposition of God's excellence for our Lives. Eve is a great example of this....Eve innocently believed the Devil's lies... she did that innocently enough right? We're now bearing the fruit of that consequence when we don't rely totally on God (and His word) to guide us completely in every avenue of our daily lives.

 

[angelique510]

This is one of my favorite pet topics. I have my own bright and shiny anti-feminism soap box. You are right. The subject did go from feminism in general to modern radical "Feminism". Words change meaning over time, and it is good to be sure of what, exactly, we are talking about. I usually use the word to mean "the modern attitudes regarding relationships between the sexes and the roles of men and women."

You can tell by my posts that I am interested in being logical and factual. Facts will change my logic equations and can change my final opinion on a subject. If you can give me facts that show that feminism is not horrible, I welcome them. I have done a lot of research on the subject and haven't found any. I want to be armed with as many facts as I can. So, please - post away!

Respectfully,
~A

I wasn't saying that anyone was treating me unkindly - I was saying that that was part of a message I received from God. It is factually incorrect to say that NO legislation to protect women was passed or started in the sixties. I already listed three in a previous post.

When the thread was in its early phase, the general term feminism was used. Then it became just the sixties. NOW is referenced even later. NOW wasn't formed until 1966, and they were one smaller piece of feminism overall. The organization didn't reach higher numbers until several years after it was formed.

The historical facts are there for anyone to read about. I just want to make sure that opinions stay separated from facts.

 

[LisaLisa]

I'm going to go make a tunafish sandwich..........but I'll be back later to read the facts.

 

[angelique510]

I made stupid errors in judgment. I comfort myself knowing that I wasn't a Christian at the time. BUT, right is right and wrong is never right.

Amen and AMEN!

I'll see your stupid and raise you a STOOPID. I weep over the bad things I've done. I can't claim Eve's innocence. I probably knew they were bad by the conscience that God gave me, but managed to talk that little voice down and do those things anyways.

God forgives us, and we forgive each other. Why do we have such a hard time forgiving ourselves?

Love,
~A

 

[closetsmokr]

That is like saying that a pot of soup containing chicken, carrots, onions, salt, pepper, and cyanide is good because there are some good things in it.

But, should we throw out the baby with the bath water?

 

[Saintscruiser]

There is nothing wrong with being factual, CS. Facts are solid. I think the difference here is the difference between secular facts and Christian facts. As in another post I made, God's way is not always man's way. What seems perfectly knowledgeable to many by law, isn't always backed up in God's Word. Like say.....turn the other cheek. That's called simple assault by law, but it doesn't make much sense to the non-Christian. I think all women, if financially possible need to stay home with their babies, but many women would rather have a career. When both parents work, the risk is higher of not knowing exactly what your kids are into....i.e. Columbine School. One set of parents had no idea their son was into all of that. They were clueless. How sad. I never wanted to work, not that I didn't have some fun jobs. The one I liked the best was 'wood chucking!' Sorry....couldn't resist that one! I used to write commercials for radio and tv. That was fun. But anyway, I feel that Christians should follow God's way of doing things and not man's. God richly blesses His children who follow His path. It's a tried and true fact. This is just my opinion....and you know what they say about opinions.....everybody has one.

 

[blondeambition3]

Amen and AMEN!

I'll see your stupid and raise you a STOOPID. I weep over the bad things I've done. I can't claim Eve's innocence. I probably knew they were bad by the conscience that God gave me, but managed to talk that little voice down and do those things anyways.

God forgives us, and we forgive each other. Why do we have such a hard time forgiving ourselves?

Love,
~A

I'll see both your stupids and raise that to a royal flush of stoopids in my Life!

Your question ~A is another one of those million dollar questions to which God has many answers, but!... The 'enemy' knows if we stay in that place of broken-ness we can do nothing for the Kingdom of God...

This deserves a better explanation but I'm making a baby today...... (Reborn Doll baby that is)...

 

[angelique510]

This deserves a better explanation but I'm making a baby today......
You're married. It's all good -but T.M.I.


(Reborn Doll baby that is)... Oohh. OK. Thanks for the clarification. If you'll excuse me, I have to go wash my imagination now.

~A

 

[trukinlady]

I am not seeking a debate here, but most of what has been stated about wages and doing damage to families is just factually incorrect. I think it's fine to express opinions about things, but incorrect information being passed as fact is detrimental. Wages for many jobs did increase for women, and that did NOT cause wages for men to decrease! Even today, women in many fields are still paid less than their male peers for doing the same work, but that situation would be even worse if not for the efforts of the time. And, the sixties portion of the feminist movement DID get important legislation passed to prevent sexual harrassment, gender discrimination, continued poor working conditions, and loss of property after divorce. That information can be found in any encyclopedia.

It may be the opinion of others on CV that feminism was the downfall of family, but that is opinion. I just don't agree with, and can't ignore, the spreading of disinformation. As Chritians, we need to take special care in spreading truth and not allowing personal judgements to cloud or skew the facts. God spoke to me personally a long time ago about His dissatisfaction with His children not being totally honest and treating others unkindly, and ever since then, I have been unable to turn a blind eye to it when I see it.

We can disagree with opinions, but facts are facts.

Originally Posted by trukinlady
This works both ways. We can respectfully agree to disagree, especially on whether information is "disinformation" or not. We are all entitled to our own opinions, but the Word of God is absolute. What is not absolute is how each of us interprets His Word. It is our responsibility to discern wisely.
Edit: I apologize for not explaining my thoughts fully. (That pesky ADD again! ) See my next post-I'm just now working on it.


Now I'll hopefully finish my thought process:

I agree with you here, and I'm not being facetious. IMHO, I don't believe it is God's intention for women to be treated as second-class citizens--to be abused, harassed, discriminated against, etc. As Christians, women have a place of honor at their husband's side in fulfillment of God's plan, according to His Word. If a woman is unmarried, it's a different situation entirely. Unfortunately, I believe society has misinterpreted His Word to keep women in subjugation for centuries. I don't believe His Word has been discerned properly in this regard. However, as far as the law of the land is concerned, what women have gained in "equality" has been, IMHO, tempered by what has been lost. I don't believe a balance has been achieved yet. I think the women's movement has attempted to rectify past injustice and obtain equality in a worldly manner, and not in a Godly manner—I believe we already have equality in God's eyes as man's helpmate. The “world” doesn't understand that.

 

[closetsmokr]

Ok, I'll ask this question so I can ensure that I understand what a fact is:

Is it a fact that the Feminist Movement, aka the Women's Movement, aka the Women's Liberation Movement, defined as "a movement in support of women's rights" (per American Heritage Dictionary), was responsible for and credited with, in the course of US history, the inclusion and passage of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as presented by Representative Martha Griffiths as a bill and passed into law , which bars employment on account of sex, race, religion, color, or national origin?

 

[blondeambition3]

Now I'll hopefully finish my thought process:

I agree with you here, and I'm not being facetious. IMHO, I don't believe it is God's intention for women to be treated as second-class citizens--to be abused, harassed, discriminated against, etc. As Christians, women have a place of honor at their husband's side in fulfillment of God's plan, according to His Word. If a woman is unmarried, it's a different situation entirely. Unfortunately, I believe society has misinterpreted His Word to keep women in subjugation for centuries. I don't believe His Word has been discerned properly in this regard. However, as far as the law of the land is concerned, what women have gained in "equality" has been, IMHO, tempered by what has been lost. I don't believe a balance has been achieved yet. I think the women's movement has attempted to rectify past injustice and obtain equality in a worldly manner, and not in a Godly manner—I believe we already have equality in God's eyes as man's helpmate. The “world” doesn't understand that.

I agree wholeheartedly..... The "Women's movement" is the World's 'new answer' to God's already perfect plans laid out for them. We're a 'people' not a Gender.

 

[blondeambition3]

Ok, I'll ask this question so I can ensure that I understand what a fact is:

Is it a fact that the Feminist Movement, aka the Women's Movement, aka the Women's Liberation Movement, defined as "a movement in support of women's rights" (per American Heritage Dictionary), was responsible for and credited with, in the course of US history, the inclusion and passage of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as presented by Representative Martha Griffiths as a bill and passed into law , which bars employment on account of sex, race, religion, color, or national origin?

To my understanding, Yes

 

[Saintscruiser]

This deserves a better explanation but I'm making a baby today......
You're married. It's all good -but T.M.I.


(Reborn Doll baby that is)... Oohh. OK. Thanks for the clarification. If you'll excuse me, I have to go wash my imagination now.

~A

I turned off my tv. Don't like those kind of shows. Angel, hand me some of that soap! TMI TMI TMI TMI.....I'm sorry, mind....."DON'T LOOK, ETHEL, BUT IT WAS TOO LATE...SHE'D DONE BEEN MOONED......

 

[blondeambition3]

This deserves a better explanation but I'm making a baby today......
You're married. It's all good -but T.M.I.


(Reborn Doll baby that is)... Oohh. OK. Thanks for the clarification. If you'll excuse me, I have to go wash my imagination now.

~A

..... wash my mouth out while you're at it ~A!...

 

[blondeambition3]

I turned off my tv. Don't like those kind of shows. Angel, hand me some of that soap! TMI TMI TMI TMI.....I'm sorry, mind....."DON'T LOOK, ETHEL, BUT IT WAS TOO LATE...SHE'D DONE BEEN MOONED......

Speaking of which!!!! (TV shows you don't like to watch, that is)... One of my Reborn baby dolls was on "What Would you do" - OWN edition" yesterday... and I think perhaps today. (They keep re-running certain programs I believe?)

That's Oprah's new network that I'm aware some you may not watch. But if everyone would 'like' to, please check Oprah's channel out just to find this show and that will allow you to view my Reborn baby that was used in that program...

PS - That's WHAT I was trying to tell you earlier today L but side tracked my STOOPID self!

 

[trukinlady]

Ok, I'll ask this question so I can ensure that I understand what a fact is:

Is it a fact that the Feminist Movement, aka the Women's Movement, aka the Women's Liberation Movement, defined as "a movement in support of women's rights" (per American Heritage Dictionary), was responsible for and credited with, in the course of US history, the inclusion and passage of Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, as presented by Representative Martha Griffiths as a bill and passed into law , which bars employment on account of sex, race, religion, color, or national origin?

I know you understand what a fact is. That isn't in question here, and I did not mean to imply it was.

 

[closetsmokr]

Then, in summary, and to go back to my concern about factual correctness, it is not factually correct to say that women's lib of the sixties did not lobby for/accomplish legislation against the following:
Discrimination against women academically
Discrimination against women in the workplace
Harrassment of women in the workpace
And for the following:
Equal pay for women for the same work that a male is doing

My references again are Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, Executive Order 11375, and the Equal Pay Act.

If anyone has facts to show that men's pay was cut as a direct result of women's pay increasing, I would seriously like to see that. I was unable to locate any documentation to support it. That's why I see such a statement as opinion only.

The reality is, some women DO have to work. Some women do not have husbands. It is for that reason that equal pay, anti-descrimination, etc were and are important.

 

[LisaLisa]

I speak here, on this topic, from my own experience. Not some law buried in some bookshelf in the legal library of the state, or whatever. I'm speaking about cold hard facts, real LIFE EXPERIENCE. Not a theory, nut real experience.

Women's lib has done nothing positive for me, my mother, or anyone that I know for that matter. In fact, just the opposite.

My life is like something you would read in a book and it all started with no supervision at home due to both parents working. My posts are based on real life, and I know for a 100% fact that if both of my parents had fulfilled their Godly roles, as spelled out in the bible, that things would have turned out alot differently then they did.