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So, you have become an anti-smoker. I have no idea why you are still puffing on anything, including an e cig, if you are so powerfully against the act of smoking. I have a real suspicion that you probably never smoked anything.
If you don't want to smoke or smell like smoke, don't smoke. You will have a few bad days, and then you will be over it. Don't use e cigs as an excuse to spout anti-smoker rhetoric though. It is neither wanted or needed. Become what you are: an anti-smoker posing as a vaper. Enough is enough.
She doesn't smoke, she vapes. Vapor doesn't smell like smoke. If you don't know that, then perhaps it is you who is posing.
Yes, it's just that easy to stop smoking. Now I suspect that you were never even a smoker.
Opining that smoking is unpleasant and addictive is not "anti-smoker rhetoric". I never thought that vapers would become as hateful, obnoxious and reactionary as anti-smoking Nazis. Enough is enough indeed.
Since we are all ostensibly on the same side here, I need to know: What is a vaping enthusiast's opinion of smoking supposed to be? Am I supposed to think that I did something potentially life-saving by switching from analogs to an e-cig, or am I supposed to think that smoking is wonderful and that vaping is just a different way to go about it? Are we on the side of Big Tobacco, or the ANTZ? (I was under the impression that they are both against vaping.) I'm very, very confused.
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If you see what I said as "condescension and sanctimony," then you are so way off base I don't even know how to respond and really, it would be pointless. You obviously have your mind made up. All I can say is - stick around, keep reading, get involved and maybe some day you'll understand what we were really saying and not what you thought we were saying. But continuing to argue is obviously getting us nowhere. I'm confident that even if you don't believe what we are saying now, you will eventually find out for yourself. So, I'll leave it at that.
PS. I have volunteered a lot of time and some of my own money over the past couple if years, fighting to keep smokeless alternatives available for vapers, by learning as much as I can and educating people about tobacco harm reduction to save more lives. If you find my manner "obnoxious" and don't wish to support the cause because of that, that is your choice. But if you wish to continue having access to these products, that would basically be cutting off your nose to spite your face. So, I hope you (both) won't let your personal dislike of me or my manner keep you from getting involved and fighting for what is right.
This. This!! Just some constructive criticism: Telling people that when they become as knowledgeable as you that they will share your opinion comes off very condescending. Variations include "I used to be like you," and "You just don't know what you don't know." Telling people that you know more about their experiences than they do (e.g. telling them that they only think that their opinions are due to experience when they are really a result of brain-washing) is extremely condescending. You are literally saying to a stranger that you have more insight into her mind than she does.
Whilst I do find some of your posts rather obnoxious, I don't dislike you (I don't even know you). I do dislike the apparent intolerance for diversity of opinion and the mixed messages that I mentioned in my previous post. I will gladly support the cause of personal liberty in all its forms, but I don't think you all are doing us any favors, especially when saying something as seemingly uncontroversial as "cigarettes smell bad" can elicit vitriol and accusations of trolling. Keep reading, think about it, and maybe someday you'll understand how you aren't helping your cause.
The "bad" smell of cigarettes may be uncontroversial to you, but there are those that like the smell of cigarettes, even as non-smokers or ex-smokers. The overwhelming smell of cigarettes can and, at times, does bother me but generally it doesn't bother me at all. In fact, I have more of a problem with certain perfumes which drive me up a wall. Do I constantly refer to the stench of perfume? NO! If I'm in a situation where it does bother me, I move away.
As far as Sheri's comments, she is just stating something that should be something you consider. We as vapers or snus users or any of the less harmful tobacco products have far more in common with smokers than the ANTZ. They do not want smokers or vapers or snus users or orb users or stonewalls or any ANY tobacco product. You may no longer smoke, but you are still addicted to tobacco in their mind and until you stop, you will be their enemy.
You throw smokers under the bus, you're throwing every other tobacco product user under the bus. From what you're writing, you don't seem to understand the difficulties. All that you're being asked to understand is that you're very new to the issue.
I hate to recommend this, but perhaps spending a little time here would give you either a better appreciation for what people are talking about or perhaps you'll find you're closer aligned with their attitude-
QuitSmokingMessageBoard.com • View topic - I'd really like to ask a question .... but .....
We are on neither side. We are simply people who enjoy e cigs as an alternative to smoking. The only war we are fighting is the one against anti-smokers who would just LOVE to take that alternative away. As for me I have nothing against BT. I chose to start smoking and could have quit had I really wanted to. Millions of people have done that. I chose this instead.
Yes, yes, I indicated that I now understand the controversial nature of indicating that I wish that my car did not smell like an ashtray. I understand that there are people who find that statement offensive, as apparently there are many people who enjoy the smell of ashtrays. Please accept my most sincere apologies.
No one threw smokers under the bus (that doesn't even make sense). Speaking about smoking is not the same as speaking of smokers. I used to be a smoker, and I think that anyone who wants to smoke should puff away. When I found out that my young cousin was smoking, the only advice I gave her was to buy them by the carton and save a few bucks. I'll probably show her my PV at some point, in case she's interested.
How would you know? I was a volunteer in the campaign against the Washington State Smoking Ban in 2005. Six years is "very new"?
I really do not see what you're getting at.
ahh, but Kristin IS helping the cause. She has worked tirelessly to make it possible for you to be vaping today. Perhaps you should look over the fight against anti-smokers and the FDA to discover why we respond as we do to posts like yours...unless of course you are one of them.
The language I use? You are the one who has resorted to name-calling and accusations. So, anyone who posts something you disagree with must be an anti-smoker? You've accused two people on this thread alone. Perhaps you should Google "witch hunt" or "McCarthyism" for some pointers on perfecting your modus operandi. I find it hilarious that to refute my assertion that you are hateful, that you spell out exactly who you hate.
Can you say with any specificity what opinion I have expressed that you find so suspicious and maddening? ... Unless you are one of them, which I think you are. You are clearly a troll. An ANTZ.
This thread has taken a bit of a nasty turn 
it does us nor our cause any good.
Unfortunately we sometimes mistake what is being said by reading more into what's written than what was meant.
I understand that in the past we have had people come to this forum for the sole purpose to fight and argue against our cause which has caused members to become defensive at times. Becoming defensive does us no good as it causes us to sometimes say things in a manner that is unbecoming and then puts the other person on the defensive which in turns escalates the matter instead of resolving it.
Our fight is about the right to choose. Some people choose to smoke, some choose to vape, some choose to use snus, etc.
I want to continue to have those choices.
it does us nor our cause any good. Unfortunately we sometimes mistake what is being said by reading more into what's written than what was meant.
I understand that in the past we have had people come to this forum for the sole purpose to fight and argue against our cause which has caused members to become defensive at times. Becoming defensive does us no good as it causes us to sometimes say things in a manner that is unbecoming and then puts the other person on the defensive which in turns escalates the matter instead of resolving it.
Our fight is about the right to choose. Some people choose to smoke, some choose to vape, some choose to use snus, etc.
I want to continue to have those choices.
I have been visiting this board since I started vaping 3 1/2 years ago. I am not a troll. I did stop posting often or even reading the forum often because I started hearing anti-smoker language that sounded both suspiciously anti-smoker and hypocritical in their discussion of cigarettes.
I'll ask again, since you ignored the question: What anti-smoker language have you seen on this thread?
From the anti-smoker denormalization campaign itself, here is a paper promoting the "spoiled identity" of smokers to achieve smoking bans and to cast smokers as lepers in society. I see vapers following this script in this forum.
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/1/25.full.
Tob Control 2008;17:25-31 doi:10.1136/tc.2007.021386
Research paper
Markers of the denormalisation of smoking and the tobacco industry
S Chapman,
B Freeman
Smokers as malodourous
Smoking has long been popularly described as a “filthy habit”. Smoking detritus such as overflowing ashtrays, discarded tar-stained butts and the smell of rooms previously occupied by smokers have all come to connote distinct unpleasantness. Hotels commonly declare whole floors smoke free and give notice that a cleaning fee will be added to the bill if smoking occurs. Many holiday guesthouses advertise that guests must not smoke indoors. Popular anti-smoking slogans in the early 1980s said “Kiss a non-smoker. Enjoy [or taste] the difference”31 and “Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray”. Advertising appeals used to sell air fresheners, oral hygiene products and chewing gum often refer to overcoming the smell of smoking. Google searching of various expressions for malodour combined with smoking return many examples, such as 716 000 hits for “smoking [and] bad breath” and 384 000 for “smoking [and] halitosis”.
http://tobaccocontrol.bmj.com/content/17/1/25.full.
Tob Control 2008;17:25-31 doi:10.1136/tc.2007.021386
Research paper
Markers of the denormalisation of smoking and the tobacco industry
S Chapman,
B Freeman
Smokers as malodourous
Smoking has long been popularly described as a “filthy habit”. Smoking detritus such as overflowing ashtrays, discarded tar-stained butts and the smell of rooms previously occupied by smokers have all come to connote distinct unpleasantness. Hotels commonly declare whole floors smoke free and give notice that a cleaning fee will be added to the bill if smoking occurs. Many holiday guesthouses advertise that guests must not smoke indoors. Popular anti-smoking slogans in the early 1980s said “Kiss a non-smoker. Enjoy [or taste] the difference”31 and “Kissing a smoker is like licking an ashtray”. Advertising appeals used to sell air fresheners, oral hygiene products and chewing gum often refer to overcoming the smell of smoking. Google searching of various expressions for malodour combined with smoking return many examples, such as 716 000 hits for “smoking [and] bad breath” and 384 000 for “smoking [and] halitosis”.
Got it. Must pretend that smoking smells good. I'll take the air freshener out of my car. Anything else?
How can we tell people that one of the advantages of vaping is that is smells better than cigarette smoke if we have to pretend that stale cigarette smoke smells awesome? Do you see the problem here?
How can we tell people that one of the advantages of vaping is that is smells better than cigarette smoke if we have to pretend that stale cigarette smoke smells awesome? Do you see the problem here?
Here is my perspective...
It is very safe to assume that most newer vapers don't know squat about the issues electronic cigarette users face.
Nor the reasons, methods, funding, or makeup of those who oppose us.
And I strongly believe that all new vapers should be encouraged to learn about these things.
If some feel there is a fine line between that encouragement and the potential for condescension, so be it.
But trying to pretend that smoking doesn't generally smell like crap to most people just isn't going to fly.
Not now and not ever.
So maybe an explanation for what is wanted, and why, would be useful right about now?
It is very safe to assume that most newer vapers don't know squat about the issues electronic cigarette users face.
Nor the reasons, methods, funding, or makeup of those who oppose us.
And I strongly believe that all new vapers should be encouraged to learn about these things.
If some feel there is a fine line between that encouragement and the potential for condescension, so be it.
But trying to pretend that smoking doesn't generally smell like crap to most people just isn't going to fly.
Not now and not ever.
So maybe an explanation for what is wanted, and why, would be useful right about now?
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It's one of those things that I think evolves over time and you just can't explain it without sounding a bit nutty and extreme. It's why the point gets lost in arguing over little things like "smoke stinks." You have to absorb a LOT of info before it becomes clear - too much to post in one thread. It's not that people are arguing that people aren't offended by the smell of smoke, it's how that is used to persecute people that is the point and how it's being used against vapers and ST users. It's just so hard to illustrate that point in text.
JustJulie made a great point on a post on the We are CASAA Facebook group (my emphasis in bold):
It's one of those things that cannot be explained - it has to be seen and experienced before it really hits home. But people who have seen the truth do need to be more patient with the new members who haven't gotten there yet. I know it can get frustrating, because what is so obvious to us now really isn't that obvious and we have to remember that. I know I eventually lost patience in this thread, where all I could say anymore was "Just wait - you'll see," which, of course, came off as condescending to some of the members. I apologize for that, but there just aren't any words to convince people - there weren't when I was a new vaper, either. Like Julie said - it's an evolution. I take comfort in the fact that the truth eventually prevails. The folks here will eventually see how the puzzle fits together and why what was said here was said. (I know that could be taken as condescending again - but it's truly just that I believe in what I'm saying with that much confidence, because I've seen this evolution take place with more members than not.) I hope people will see that they weren't being attacked personally - we were trying to get them to question what they have been told and what they hold to be true because of it. That is my mantra these days - question EVERYTHING.
In a nutshell, DC2, I guess what I'm saying (or trying to say) is that there really is no way to "explain." All we could do is hand them the box of puzzle pieces, but until they put it together themselves (and remove the pieces the ANTZ put in the box that don't belong,) they won't be able to see the whole picture.
JustJulie made a great point on a post on the We are CASAA Facebook group (my emphasis in bold):
It's one of those things that cannot be explained - it has to be seen and experienced before it really hits home. But people who have seen the truth do need to be more patient with the new members who haven't gotten there yet. I know it can get frustrating, because what is so obvious to us now really isn't that obvious and we have to remember that. I know I eventually lost patience in this thread, where all I could say anymore was "Just wait - you'll see," which, of course, came off as condescending to some of the members. I apologize for that, but there just aren't any words to convince people - there weren't when I was a new vaper, either. Like Julie said - it's an evolution. I take comfort in the fact that the truth eventually prevails. The folks here will eventually see how the puzzle fits together and why what was said here was said. (I know that could be taken as condescending again - but it's truly just that I believe in what I'm saying with that much confidence, because I've seen this evolution take place with more members than not.) I hope people will see that they weren't being attacked personally - we were trying to get them to question what they have been told and what they hold to be true because of it. That is my mantra these days - question EVERYTHING.
In a nutshell, DC2, I guess what I'm saying (or trying to say) is that there really is no way to "explain." All we could do is hand them the box of puzzle pieces, but until they put it together themselves (and remove the pieces the ANTZ put in the box that don't belong,) they won't be able to see the whole picture.
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