If you did not cite idiotic site with idiotic position on acetaminophen, I may be will be in agreement with you.
Fruits of the FDA's Labor
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alien Traveler" data-source="post: 18755201" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">That issue is as old as the hills, and far from limited to that site. Research it yourself (start with the CDC) then come back [Moderated]alien Traveler said:
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[Moderated] I really do not like idiotic sites. I do not like vapers mentioning them. It makes vapers look like dumb conspiracy theorists.
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alien Traveler" data-source="post: 18755257" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">[Moderated]alien Traveler said:
If you're saying that it's not an unusually high toxicity level, state your case in a less condescending way. Maybe then someone will pay attention. Me, for one. The evidence is stacked against you on this one though, condescending or not.
I'll wait.
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Does the NIH meet with your approval? Or is that yet another idiot-vaper conspiracy source, in the world according to you?
Acetaminophen
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Acetaminophen
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yeah umm after reading this thread yesterday... I followed the link.. and nope that's not what their video docs said... he actually said it was no better than the other methods for helping to quit. sadly too many think WebMD, like wiki is a reliable source of info and will believe the crap spewed.
I'm old enough to remember when our electronics industry came under seige by Japanese companies. The workers in that industry cried out that they were being forced out of work. Then our companies started to source there to survive, and that group and voice died. Textile workers I think were next. Maybe 1st. Everyone said "just get a NEW job" Then appliances, autos, everything. One by one they fell. Some responded smart (re-education) and some didn't or couldn't and ended up on the Fry line or working for Sam Walton.
All along, each small individual group under seige cried for help. Help from the Govt, help from Fellow Americans with the Buy American theme. I am not starting a discussion on foreign trade.
Our Govt. is smart. Lessons like this are not lost on them. You can enslave the people, but not all at once. You take away the rights of this little group, they're going to raise hell. But it isn't MOST peoples rights, so they know that all those people will ignore your little plight. It isn't them, after all. And piece by piece, bit by bit, little group by little group, our civil liberties and rights get lost.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Martin Niemöller
My point is, if you are waiting for the non-vaping members of this society to care or lift a finger to help out an injustice against us, you are probably wasting your time.
All along, each small individual group under seige cried for help. Help from the Govt, help from Fellow Americans with the Buy American theme. I am not starting a discussion on foreign trade.
Our Govt. is smart. Lessons like this are not lost on them. You can enslave the people, but not all at once. You take away the rights of this little group, they're going to raise hell. But it isn't MOST peoples rights, so they know that all those people will ignore your little plight. It isn't them, after all. And piece by piece, bit by bit, little group by little group, our civil liberties and rights get lost.
"First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me."
Martin Niemöller
My point is, if you are waiting for the non-vaping members of this society to care or lift a finger to help out an injustice against us, you are probably wasting your time.
What video are you speaking of? Are you talking about the link under the word "electronic cigarette"?
The article that was linked by the OP reads:
"But researchers note they can help smokers quit even if they're not risk-free"
"Although the impact of long-term use of e-cigarettes on health is still unknown, the available scientific evidence indicates that e-cigarettes are less harmful than combustible cigarettes, and that smokers switching to e-cigarettes could benefit from a decrease in health risks related to smoking combustible cigarettes,"
Another article on WebMD reads:
E-cigs don't burn, so people aren't as exposed to those toxins. A 2015 expert review from Public Health England estimated e-cigs are 95% less harmful than the real thing.
That figure is controversial and might be a little high, says Kenneth Warner, a tobacco policy researcher at the University of Michigan. But, he adds, "The worst critics of e-cigarettes would probably argue they're a half to two-thirds less dangerous. But from a practical view, they're probably on the order of 80% to 85% less dangerous, at least."
"We don't have the definitive study on that," Warner says. "My reading of the evidence is that it is quite convincing that e-cigarettes are helping some people quit smoking."
But then there's also:
Sward points out that according to the FDA, there's no evidence any e-cigarette is safe and effective at helping smokers quit. She suggests talking to your doctor about medications and other strategies that are proven stop-smoking tools.
The American Heart Association says e-cigs should only be used as a last resort way to quit.
So bottom line, they are reporting both sides of the argument, which is at least better than what many/most publishers are doing.
this is one of their other linked videos came up on the same page...
Can E-cigarettes Help Smokers Quit?
Can E-cigarettes Help Smokers Quit?
Not at all, LLB.
My initial point was that misinformation is being spread by people trusted by many, who are supposed to have our best interests in heart, mind & action. Unfortunately that's not limited to our cause, but is indicative of the corruption we have allowed to overtake us.
The press that was established by our Constitution, solely for the purpose of keeping us informed as to our government's activities, ceased being that some time back (with a rare few exceptions). We now accept entertainment programs as "News", and accept that a large percentage of our Press have become cheerleaders for a cause, instead of embracing the concept that the "Us" are the people, and the "Them" are the government.
Many of us are too busy to read a Wall Street Journal every day, or stay connected to Citizens Against Government Waste, and instead simply spread memes or repeat oft-cited sayings in the name of knowledge.
With each accepted & misguided lie, most of which originate with the lobbyists empowered by a perverted tax code, our freedoms slip further and further away. Only self-guided education can change that (because they certainly aren't teaching that concept in our schools & universities).
So no, we should not wait for anything nor anyone. But we should look at everything we see with a question mark attached to it.
This issue, the misinformation surrounding vape vs. smoke, is just one good example and relevant to the purpose of our being here.
Hence, my post.
For some reason that link wasn't on my page. All he said was that e-cigs were about equal to patches. While I don' think that's accurate, it does imply that e-cigs do help some people. All in all, I was pretty encouraged that WebMD was as positive as they were. Like it or not, there's no long-term studies out yet, because no one has been vaping long-term and I would expect that the medical establishment would take a conservative, wait and see stance.
It was one of those arbitrary links that we see on pages. Sometimes pertinent, others not. In this case, the latter applies.
Your encouraged feelings were justified, at least in my opinion. I felt the same.
Will someone tell me just how long the FDA considers "long term" before they okay a pharmaceutical product?
Yes the government in this country is corrupt (and self-serving) but don't forget that a complicit mainstream media played a -major- role in the demonization of vaping. They consistently inundated the public with malicious, unsubstantiated and untrue "stories" about the evils of vaping while intentionally suppressing truth and fact, this wasn't an oversight, misunderstanding or unfortunate coincidence but a deliberate act on their part.
Example; Lacking credible evidence that vaping is -in any way- harmful, the government claims that, for children, vaping is a stepping stone to smoking tobacco, a gateway activity. However, the government's own statistics/data shows that in direct correlation with the rise of vaping there has been a dramatic drop in rates/incidence of teen smoking. According to data from the Office of Adolescent Health within the U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services (HHS), from 2010 to 2016 the incidence of teen smoking declined by nearly 50%. Coincidence? Perhaps, but how can the government claim vaping causes teens to smoke tobacco when facts/data only support the exact opposite assumption. The reason the media doesn't investigate/report such an obvious conflict of fact is because the truth doesn't support the government's anti-vaping agenda, it would undermine it.
Consumers in Pennsylvania are some of the first in the nation to realize one of the government'$ major goal$ in all of thi$. The state's 40% tax is going to hurt much worse in the 2018-2019 timeframe after manufacturers experience/suffer the full financial cost of FDA compliance. Manufacturers -will- pass those costs on to consumers in the way of higher product prices. These inflated product prices will -then- be subject to the 40% tax. In other words, you'll be paying 40% taxes not only on the product itself (as you just did) but also on the higher added costs of regulatory compliance as well...Ouch! You could end up spending $140 or more for juice that actually cost less than $4 in ingredients to make with the government pocketing the bulk of the windfall. This is why so many people stockpile liquid nic (while still legal, available and inexpensive) and go to the trouble of learning how to DIY. Doing so divorces government from the equation entirely, kicking their ugly, lying, corrupt derrière to the curb where it belongs.
I know that it takes approximately 12 years to take a drug from compound to market, if that's any indication. I guess that, in all fairness, we would need to go through a generation to scientifically state anything.
Common sense does warrant some thought though, particularly when the argument is vapor instead of smoke. I do believe we have a fair amount of empirical evidence, simply via medical records of vapers, that should lend credence to a more "cautiously optimistic" position from our legislative bodies.
But I'm admittedly biased.
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We need a Love This button.Yes the government in this country is corrupt (and self-serving) but don't forget that a complicit mainstream media played a -major- role in the demonization of vaping. They consistently inundated the public with malicious, unsubstantiated and untrue "stories" about the evils of vaping while intentionally suppressing truth and fact, this wasn't an oversight, misunderstanding or unfortunate coincidence but a deliberate act on their part.
Example; Lacking credible evidence that vaping is -in any way- harmful, the government claims that, for children, vaping is a stepping stone to smoking tobacco, a gateway activity. However, the government's own statistics/data shows that in direct correlation with the rise of vaping there has been a dramatic drop in rates/incidence of teen smoking. According to data from the Office of Adolescent Health within the U.S. Dept. of Health & Human Services (HHS), from 2010 to 2016 the incidence of teen smoking declined by nearly 50%. Coincidence? Perhaps, but how can the government claim vaping causes teens to smoke tobacco when facts/data only support the exact opposite assumption. The reason the media doesn't investigate/report such an obvious conflict of fact is because the truth doesn't support the government's anti-vaping agenda, it would undermine it.
Consumers in Pennsylvania are some of the first in the nation to realize one of the government'$ major goal$ in all of thi$. The state's 40% tax is going to hurt much worse in the 2018-2019 timeframe after manufacturers experience/suffer the full financial cost of FDA compliance. Manufacturers -will- pass those costs on to consumers in the way of higher product prices. These inflated product prices will -then- be subject to the 40% tax. In other words, you'll be paying 40% taxes not only on the product itself (as you just did) but also on the higher added costs of regulatory compliance as well...Ouch! You could end up spending $140 or more for juice that actually cost less than $4 in ingredients to make with the government pocketing the bulk of the windfall. This is why so many people stockpile liquid nic (while still legal, available and inexpensive) and go to the trouble of learning how to DIY. Doing so divorces government from the equation entirely, kicking their ugly, lying, corrupt derrière to the curb where it belongs.
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Thank you, DPLongo. Seems to me that our nicotine inhalers and the British Quick Mist would have helped shorten that 12 yr. period. 
Seems to me that our nicotine inhalers and the British Quick Mist would have helped shorten that 12 yr. period. Thank you, DPLongo.
That's just the average time for a compound, CCG. I agree that in this case things could move along much more quickly, especially given what we know about the insidious nature & impact of smoke on our bodies.
I wonder when/if common sense will make a reappearance in our society (with special emphasis on our legislative bodies!).
Meanwhile from the UK, common sense peaks its head out to remind us that it's still here.
UK scientists to WHO: your vape report is junk - Vaping360
UK scientists to WHO: your vape report is junk - Vaping360
Long enough to line their pockets?
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