Getting paid for reviews???

[SharonMM]

So I see this big disclaimer on the front page now... That there are folks on here who are being paid for their reviews. So I'd just like to know, who these folks are, and if they are allowed to post in the "discussion" thread or if they are limited to the review subforum.

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[Nermal]

I don't know exactly what the front page is. How do I find it?

 

[SharonMM]

It's the first page you get when you visit the website.

Today it appears that it is not there. But it most certainly was and I'd love to hear an explanation.

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[gthompson]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com doesn't take me to a yellow page.

 

[rd2ruin]

I think you're referring to the disclaimer banner on the e-liquid Review forum.
E-Liquid Reviews

CAUTION: 1. Some reviews are paid for by the vendor and therefore may not represent a truly independent view of the product. In some cases they are a form of advertising - and adverts don't tell you what is wrong with the product.

I figured this was just a head's up / CYA and honestly I never noticed if it was there before or not, but it's a fair enough "head's up" for people checking out what's said in that forum.

 

[SharonMM]

Yes that is the banner I was referring to. I swear it was on the front page yesterday. Since it has been relocated to the review subforum, I guess it is safe to assume that is the only place it is applicable.

I am still wondering if these member/salespeople are allowed to comment anywhere on the forum. I just want there to be some clarity if I am talking to an unbiased person or not.

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[chellemmm]

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/ecf-forum-rules/255780-ecf-suppliers-terms-service.html

Specifically:

13. Suppliers may not post in the New Members Forum, the Reviews forums, APV forums or Classifieds. They may post in the Reviews of Suppliers and the Commercial Reviews forums.

I think they put that banner there to let readers be aware that sometimes a supplier associate may come to this forum and post reviews. They cannot "catch" everything, so hence the disclaimer. It has happened before that I have seen, but it was quickly "caught" by some members and deleted.

Usually you can tell, especially if the "reviewer" has a low post count and all they talk about is XXXX's wonderful juice.

 

[kottonmouth401]

Most people on here are just regular folk who talk about stuff they've tried & liked (or disliked) but i've definitely noticed that there are some people who seem like they're "hyping" a particular vendor or flavor & i start to wonder if they're doing this because they have been paid to do it. It just feels a bit sneaky and dishonest to me...advertisements masquerading as legit comments/reviews.

 

[josie wales]

Welcome to the world of internet forum marketing. I'm a member of a guitar gear forum and you saw the same thing until the forum required associates, paid employees or endorsee's to fully disclose thier affiliations. Even then, read everything, both positive and negative with a critical eye. Shills are usually easy to spot. I haven't been around here long enough to know just how common shilling is on ECF.

 

[Robino1]

Shilling is not allowed and those that do are usually caught very quickly, as Chelle stated. There are certainly fans of certain vendors. Each vendor has them. If someone is looking for recommendations, of course the fans of vendors are going to chime in. That's human nature.

I'm a HHV fan. It's what I love and use 100%. I do not go on a thread that is asking about another vendor and start talking about HHV though. Now if someone starts doing that, then that makes me question whether the person is 'shilling'. But if there is a thread asking what to try? Yes, I will comment there. That is normal behavior.

 

[lasttango]

it's more like a marketing strategy than a bribe... some vendors are aware of "influential" members on sites like ecf...
and when you order from them... they may just throw an extra 100mls of juice in... or "ask" you to be a tester for their new mod... or just be very generous... sometimes vendors even pm you and ask you for your address and ask you to review some of their new flavors...

Many folks feel obligated... or in some sense compelled to give the vendor props for their generosity or faith etc... it's one way "fanboys" are born.

I am not aware of any vendor kicking out cash for a review...
I am sure it happens to members with unusually high stature and a fan base...

As a long time member... I have been approached several times by vendors who want me to review their product. sometimes they send me a 5ml sample... and other times they send a device... 100+mls of juice... drip tips etc...

Here's my policy... if a vendor gives me something for free... I disclose it in a review.

My #1 thing is... I only review something publicly if I like it.

If I dislike a product a vendors sends me... or even if I dislike a juice that I buy... I tend to give the vendor feedback directly.

I don't have time to write reviews for products I find disgusting because they far outweighs the ones I like... My lack of affirmation speaks for my feeling about a product.

I have never had a vendor say something like: "hey, I'll send you XXXXX if you promise to do a review on ECF."

It's more like... 'hey Tango, I'm working on some new flavors and I am looking for some testers to give me feedback or do reviews etc..."

and I say...

"Thanks, I'd be happy to help out. Please send a samples of at least 10mls (I am not going to waste a carto on less)... and... here's the deal... I only write something if I like it... if I don't like it... or think it needs improvements, I will communicate with you directly. My address is XXXX.

As I said, before... I don't really see myself as a "professional" or amateur reviewer. I don't do videos... I don't have a blog... I only bother to write a review if I like something.

If you put yourself out there enough... start threads that result in orders for vendors... don't be surprised if a vendor appraoches you and asks you to be a "tester" for their new product.

It just happens...

and I think it's fine. It's how we develop relationships and it helps vendors...

there is just a line you don't want to cross...

You'll know you are crossing it when you start writing BS... when you start announcing sales... and start sounding more like an employee than a fan.

 

[daleron]

Hummm lasttango....who might these generous folks be? J/K!

 

[lasttango]

One has to be careful with reviews anyway...

I mean... you read a review... you run out, buy the juice... and it blows... so, you think to yourself... geez, this reviewer just isn't very good for me... so the next time you read a review they write, you take it with a grain of salt.

or... the opposite... you read a review from someone, you run out, buy the juice and it's the best juice you ever tasted... the reviewer summed it up just as you would have... then... you look for that person's reviews and are more prone to take chances on juices they like.

Here's a more candid thought... keep this between us ;-)

I think this happens...

I think a vendor says... "Hey Tito, thanks for that positive review you wrote about me on ecf. Let me know when you order again and I want to throw in some more samples for you to review."

The member gets all excited... and runs out and orders more right away... they get their freebies. They feel so special.

Then they show up in the review thread and start asserting themselves like they are some kind of business associate of the vendor... because it makes them feel special and validated.

ECF mods and or members look at their reviews and see right through the shameless and relentless promotion - and then they get warned or worse...

I think our community is smarter... and can see through phoney reviews... If I can't, surly someone else can... and if they can't... someone else can etc.

 

[lasttango]

Hummm lasttango....who might these generous folks be? J/K!

anyone... they tend to find you... and some people "fish" for it... people either want freebies or they want the "power" of being a vendor's special friend.

that's in part, a reason for the disclaimer...

and if any vendor is reading this, I would love to be a beta "tester" for your new $300 VV mod ;-) JK or am I... no seriously, JK... or...... LOL

 

[daleron]

Funny man!

 

[SharonMM]

Well that's bull.... I think 100% ecf needs to require these "testers" to disclose if they are in direct communication (cahoots, if you will) with the vendor. I'm sorry but taking free stuff makes you BIAS, in my book. And I feel like I have a right to know.

Do you know how ticked off I am that I have invested the time I have, reading these threads of "opinions" trying to navigate through an ocean of ejuice choices and for a new vaper like me its really overwhelming. So I come on here seeking a little help from people who have been there done that, but NOPE apparently its perfectly fair to let a bunch of sneaky salesfolk infiltrate and masquerade as if they were just regular people. NOT COOL ECF.

Seriously, if you are getting free .... from a vendor.. I want to know about it. And I want a little star by your name so I can know upfront you're being bribed and your opinion doesn't count. (to me) THAT'S FAIR. What's UNFAIR is being led to believe all this positive feedback is coming from people who have actually bought things with their own money and THEN decided they were great.

This is a sad day.

 

[lasttango]

I'm glad this thread was started, because I seem to have so much to say about it...

I could be wrong, but my perception is that right now, we have more newer members than ever.

Seems that the 2013 born on dates are all over the place and being new... you folks have questions and are seeing some things for the first time etc...

I can't stress this enough - don't run out and buy juice based on "hype" alone.

Many new vapers in particular, go through a sort of manic euphoria when they start vaping. I am not sure what brings it on... but for me, it was a combination of being so astounded and proud of myself for quitting smoking so painlessly... and I was so excited by all of the choices out there.

So, when you are relatively new... it is like being a kid in a candy store... and your attention span acts accordingly... it's like... "mmmm this is great!... this is even better!... I love this! I gotta have me some of that!"

and this lasts for a few months or more.

and apologies to those who felt patronized by that - because it isn't just like that for everyone, but it was for me... and I see it happening for a lot of folks. Some folks are quite the opposite and can't find anything they like.

anyway, as you encounter "hype," it is crucial that you see who is hyping it -
this may sound incredibly obvious, but no matter how much something ius being hyped, you're probably not going to like it if it's a flavor you don't like.

If you hate licorice/anise/absinthe, you suddenly won't start liking it just because it's being hyped.

I tend to interpret hype as enthusiasm.

If you're new, and you are trying to identify juice you might like... approach it cautiously. Use what you do know... flavors, flavorings, ratios, reviewer who pointed you that way etc...

 

[LibertariaNate]

Well that's bull.... I think 100% ecf needs to require these "testers" to disclose if they are in direct communication (cahoots, if you will) with the vendor. I'm sorry but taking free stuff makes you BIAS, in my book. And I feel like I have a right to know. ...

You could always ask the reviewer. Best case they'll tell you the truth. Worst case, they'll *gasp* lie... It is the internet after all. I take everything I read on here with a large grain of salt.

 

[lasttango]

Well that's bull.... I think 100% ecf needs to require these "testers" to disclose if they are in direct communication (cahoots, if you will) with the vendor. I'm sorry but taking free stuff makes you BIAS, in my book. And I feel like I have a right to know.

Do you know how ticked off I am that I have invested the time I have, reading these threads of "opinions" trying to navigate through an ocean of ejuice choices and for a new vaper like me its really overwhelming. So I come on here seeking a little help from people who have been there done that, but NOPE apparently its perfectly fair to let a bunch of sneaky salesfolk infiltrate and masquerade as if they were just regular people. NOT COOL ECF.

Seriously, if you are getting free .... from a vendor.. I want to know about it. And I want a little star by your name so I can know upfront you're being bribed and your opinion doesn't count. (to me) THAT'S FAIR. What's UNFAIR is being led to believe all this positive feedback is coming from people who have actually bought things with their own money and THEN decided they were great.

This is a sad day.

It's something that ecf or no one can determine... that's why you have to employ the tools to detect it yourself.
As I said, I don't think there are many "cahoots" out there... I think it's more the will of the reviewer.

...and it doesn't always imply bias...

the reviews I would write for a freebie are no different than something I paid for.

but - that's only valuable to you if you have read my reviews and had success finding good juice based on my reviews.

and that's how I look at any reviewer.

I truly think some out there are full of crap...

Sharon, there's no sure way to know if you are reading an unbiased review for sure... but you already seem well on your way to detecting BS...

anyway, the disclaimer is what it is... to heighten awareness that some folks... hopefully not many write disingenuous reviews in hopes of receiving freebies.

 

[Robino1]

Definitely go with something you know and like flavor wise. ALWAYS get samples from several places. If you like the sample, don't buy the largest size if you're new to vaping. Larger sizes need Longer steeping and the probability of your tastes changing, in the beginning, are very high.

I don't do reviews and I do not get free anything. I wouldn't ask nor do I want to. I'm a hard to please vaper so when I found a comfort zone, I don't venture out of it. I tried once and it just didn't work. It was with a very reputable vendor with a large following. I won't bash any vendor just because they have a lot of fans. It.just.wasn't.a.fit.for.me.

When you have thousands of people on a forum, you will have thousands of opinions. We are not here to tell you what will work for you. We can only tell you what works for us, as individuals. We can give you ideas but CANNOT guarantee that it will work for you.

There are people that do have 'Reviewer' in their title, if you look for it. Don't discount what they say, some really know their stuff. The trick is finding ones with the same tastes as you. I haven't found one person yet that likes everything I like.