Girl Scouts allow a boy wo identifies as a girl

[Zapp and Roger]

Girl Scouts Allow 7-Year-Old Boy to Join Because He is

Wow. I can hardly believe it but how awesome is that? Naturally the haters are trolling the hell out of the comment section (Which cracks me up...why is there this singular fascination with someone seeing someone in the shower or bathroom?? Jesus we aren't 12 anymore..) Applause for the Girl Scout succeeding where the Boy Scouts failed.

 

[sonicdsl]

Girl Scouts Allow 7-Year-Old Boy to Join Because He is

Wow. I can hardly believe it but how awesome is that? Naturally the haters are trolling the hell out of the comment section (Which cracks me up...why is there this singular fascination with someone seeing someone in the shower or bathroom?? Jesus we aren't 12 anymore..) Applause for the Girl Scout succeeding where the Boy Scouts failed.

Awesome for the GS to do this! I love progress, despite the venom-laced responses from the ignorant haters.

Viva la freedom!

 

[BiancaMontgomery]

I somehow missed this! Thanks for posting.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Yep, the girl scouts rock. They don't have all the stupid and discriminatory crap rules the BSA does. Makes those girl scout cookies taste even better every year. Hehehehe.

 

[jjrose]

Plus, the BSA only sells crappy, overpriced, popcorn... and this is coming from a cub scout mom.

 

[Dougiestyle]

Jesus wept.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Jesus wept.

And invisible pink unicorns fly. What's your point?

 

[tybin]

yes, i'm pretty sure the man was capable of crying just like you and me

Jesus wept.

 

[SuZamme]

Just discovered this thread.
An aspect of this issue is one that has been discussed and argued for at least 25 years at Michigan Womyn's Music Festival.

That being that men identified as women want access to the Womyn's Music Festival and feel that as men identified as women that they deserve to be included.

However, the issues are many from both sides as the festival is also a safe, womyn only place for womyn who have been abused by their fathers, brothers, uncles, cousins, strangers, etc. to heal and experience life for a week without any males.

Many of the men identified as women have not had and do not intend to complete the physical changes and so still "have the parts". Understandably, festival would then not remain a male-free space.

By defining the festival as a female-born-female space has been one stance.

Being born male on this planet has certain entitlements from day one and even though it also has many challenges, the festival is one place where this male-ness agenda is not present.

As far as the girl scouts go, perhaps the simple fact that it has been, as far as anyone knows, a penis-free group up until now is the issue.

There are separatists every where we turn...in politics, religions, social groups, schools, etc.

It is my vision that we live as equals on this planet...sigh, it seems like such a long time before this will become a reality and certainly not in my lifetime.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

I've never understood the position of the MWMF, and I know a few MtF trans people, so I tend to take an opposite position to them. And, while I agree that *most* men are born to a position of privilege (I have no doubt that being born a white male has helped me in any number of ways), that's not true of all men, particularly men who don't conform to male "standard of conduct". I sometimes find it frustrating when people assume I'm straight because I act the way most people think of straight men acting, but never more frustrating than when someone comments about a sissy-boy and assumes I'll agree, either because they assume I'm straight, or because they assume I'm a deliberately "straight-acting" gay man. (Do people really find that attractive - advertising that you put on an act in public?)

I like my penis. It can be hours of fun, it's portable, I never forget it in a store and have to call to see if someone found it and turned it in to the Lost & Found. But my sense of being male is in my head, not my penis. If I woke up tomorrow and found myself with breasts and a vagina, I'd still be a man, just a man with the wrong plumbing. If I was a floating head in a jar, I'd still be a man, even with no plumbing.

I can't imagine the special hell of feeling completely betrayed by your own body. And I really can't imagine going through all that and then finding out that others reject me because of a piece of tissue that I probably wouldn't have the financial wherewithal to get rid of. Most studies done on the subject show that average MtF trans annual income is well below poverty level, and too many of them resort to prostitution just to be able to live. It's not a pretty life, and it's not made any prettier or easier by discrimination, from any direction. Without exception, every MtF woman I've ever met, with or without anatomically correct bodies, would recoil in horror at the idea of doing something sexual with that piece of skin that's created so much pain and uncertainty in their lives. The idea that having that little piece of skin - tastefully tucked and completely out of sight - turns anywhere into an unsafe space is just ludicrous to me.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Off the subject - a moment of quiet respect for sissies, who are stronger than I'll ever be. They've certainly gone through more and worse than I have.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Many of the men identified as women have not had and do not intend to complete the physical changes and so still "have the parts". Understandably, festival would then not remain a male-free space.

Original post deleted as too much of a rant.

But Suzamme, let me strongly encourage you to spend a few minutes looking in the mirror and considering the truly awesome privilege of getting to decide everyone else's true sex, even total strangers. I think that privilege pretty much tops a man's slightly higher average salary. Powerful responsibility you've taken on for yourself, I hope you don't abuse it.

 

[SuZamme]

I've never understood the position of the MWMF, and I know a few MtF trans people, so I tend to take an opposite position to them. And, while I agree that *most* men are born to a position of privilege (I have no doubt that being born a white male has helped me in any number of ways), that's not true of all men, particularly men who don't conform to male "standard of conduct"...

Actually, the reality is that just being born male (also think of the reactions when it is even known that a woman is going to give birth to a male) does carry with it certain rights. The right to be strong, willful, in charge, boys-will-be-boys permissions, etc. Whereas a girl is immediately labeled tomboy, ....., bossy, out-of-control, for the exact same behaviors...at any age in her life.

Without exception, every MtF woman I've ever met, with or without anatomically correct bodies, would recoil in horror at the idea of doing something sexual with that piece of skin that's created so much pain and uncertainty in their lives. The idea that having that little piece of skin - tastefully tucked and completely out of sight - turns anywhere into an unsafe space is just ludicrous to me...

As woman, we live with the energy that we are only "one male" away from being raped. Fortunately I am a very strong woman who has been lucky to have never been raped. I have been attacked, affronted, threatened, harassed, and kidnapped during my travels around the world and in the dating game. Many, many other woman have not been so fortunate. Why? Because we have a couple of holes? Breasts? Are weaker or at least perceived weaker? Because We Are Women!

A space where there is absolutely no possibility of being raped by a man is a healing space like no other for many women.
A space that celebrates the joy of appreciating all the wonderful and kind men in our lives without the remote possibility that "one of the others" will suddenly appear.
A space where the mere act of being born a woman is sacred, honored, celebrated, and supported.
A space where someone being a little crazy is attributed to whatever the real causes are and not dismissed with some bizarre and disrespectful statement like "she must just be on the rag".
A space where the beauty of being born a woman is celebrated in song, dance, touching, talking, crying, and laughing.
A space where there is no hierarchy that starts with male at the top.

There is much more to being a woman that just the presence of breasts and a vagina. Some of it is like you described being male is for you, in our heads.
Most of it is about the vibrations that run thru our entire beings...the duality of male/female, the reproductive possibilities whether we choose to exercise them or not, the visions of peaceful co-existence, the harmony of tribe, the oneness with Mother Nature as co-creators of beauty.

If all males were as you are, then we would not be having this conversation and thousands of women, children, and men around the world would not be being raped and abused right this minute.

Here is a website of a WtM trans you might find illuminating:
Home | Kand McQueen, Ph.D.

 

[ScottinSoCal]

If all males were as you are, then we would not be having this conversation and thousands of women, children, and men around the world would not be being raped and abused right this minute.

Because women never commit sexual assault. Women never sexually abuse children. Women are inherently peaceful, cooperative, gentle souls who couldn't hurt a fly. Nothing at all sexist in that. Nope, not a thing.

By the way, you might want to check your calendar. It's the 21st century, and women are currently serving in the armed forces, doing time in prison for sexual assault of adults and children, and leading countries. Turns out women are pretty much the same as men; some good, some bad, most just doing their best to get through life with mind and body intact.

 

[SuZamme]

Because women never commit sexual assault. Women never sexually abuse children. Women are inherently peaceful, cooperative, gentle souls who couldn't hurt a fly. Nothing at all sexist in that. Nope, not a thing.

By the way, you might want to check your calendar. It's the 21st century, and women are currently serving in the armed forces, doing time in prison for sexual assault of adults and children, and leading countries. Turns out women are pretty much the same as men; some good, some bad, most just doing their best to get through life with mind and body intact.

Your comments (rant?) remind me that there are still so many who are only looking for people who will agree with them. I told you some of the reasons Michigan Womyn's Music Festival was not open to having MtF trans. I stated my perspective and experience with the privileges of being born male.
I included a free link to a website with a very much 2012 perspective on sex/gender/trans choices and options.
I was not attacking "maleness". I replied to your posts to generate more understanding of "femaleness".

 

[tybin]

good to see the thread alive"w00t: what's the next hot topic?

 

[SuZamme]

good to see the thread alive"w00t: what's the next hot topic?

How many Girl Scouts does it take to change a lightbulb?

 

[tybin]

ummm, let me see. I was a girl scout for about 20 years... Imma say.....1 because a girl scout is always prepared

 

[tybin]

now, seriously. I know allot of transgendered folks, but I do notice that the energy in one of my women's AA meetings has a different energy when this one person who is TG shares. It reminds me of mixed meetings and guys going on about bashing down one's ego and getting off the pity pot. That may not be the same for all TG people, but in this instance there IS a difference. Maybe it's from the years of growing up as one gender before transitioning to the other gender, but the worldview of this individual comes across as different than the energy of the others in that particular meeting.

Now, I know first hand that women are abusers so I'm not going down that road either. could it be that the issue is really more about what generation we have each grown up in? Times are different now for sure, but there are still tons of all of our own bullcrap to wade through

and I am now fleeing from the room before the arrows start to fly

 

[ScottinSoCal]

Your comments (rant?) remind me that there are still so many who are only looking for people who will agree with them. I told you some of the reasons Michigan Womyn's Music Festival was not open to having MtF trans. I stated my perspective and experience with the privileges of being born male.

If that was all you'd done, there would be no rant here. Instead you wrote this:
That being that men identified as women want access to the Womyn's Music Festival and feel that as men identified as women that they deserve to be included.

You appointed yourself the ultimate arbiter of sex, for everyone on the planet. You, not them, get to decide which sex they truly are. Where does this lead? Do mannish looking women get a quick crotch grope to "prove" their femaleness? My, that would contribute to feelings of safety, wouldn't it? Do attendees have to show up with their certified DNA test to prove they've got the right chromosome mix to pass your test?

You. Don't. Have. The. Right. To. Decide. Someone. Else's. Life. It's the worst arrogance I can think of to assume you do. And you still dare to bring up privilege. Hubris.

I was not attacking "maleness". I replied to your posts to generate more understanding of "femaleness".

I think my delicate constitution could hold up under an assault on maleness from someone like you, but I agree, you didn't attack maleness. You attacked women who were born with male genitalia. Note the distinction: not men identified as women, but women who were born with incompatible genitalia. The first completely ignores someone else's history and their right to define their own life. The second accepts that all of us have the right to determine our own lives and history.

Your self-proclaimed right to determine other people's lives is offensive to me.