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Glass for the new Kayfun 4?

Discussion in 'IBTanked' started by Pocha, Dec 11, 2014.

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  1. Pocha

    Pocha Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Any chance that might be a possibility in the future? I've been enjoying your glass for the Erlkonigin and I plan of adding a KF4 to the rotation. Thanks!
     
  2. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Have they changed the design to get rid of the threads on the tank section? We simply cannot thread glass.

    Do you have dimensions for the tube? Oring sizes? We are happy to provide glass where we can and we also have our cut to length custom glass for those that we dont have by name.
     
  3. Pocha

    Pocha Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I don't have one (yet) but I know the tank is NOT threaded. Don't know the exact dimensions either but I'll (or maybe someone else who actually has one) will eventually chime in. Thanks!
     
  4. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    This sounds like it will make a lot of folks very happy. According to this site it appears they went with 1.5mm CS orings which is great news for both us and the customers in getting a good fit for glass. Devices with 1mm orings do not even come close to allowing the kind of compression needed to adapt to the tolerance of glass. Fine for steel tanks but a real PITA when considering a +/- spec of 0.40mm or even greater depending on the size of glass and the manufacturer.

    Looks like the tank section on this is 22mm OD glass 13mm Length. From what I see there the plastic tank still has the longer profile and threads in the ends so they must be including some sort of nano adapter to fit the glass. Hope someone corrects me if I am wrong on this.

    With the Glass Tank orings listed as 19 x 1.5mm I would guess that the ID for the glass is 19mm meaning the tank section will be 22 x 1.5mm tube 13mm long. I will wait on verification of this before making these. The one measurement that will be very important is the diameter of the metal part the oring groove is in. This is the part that must fit into the glass and should be no more than 18.8mm diameter ant that is only half of the spec for 22 x 1.5mm but the vast majority of glass produced by any top tier maker like Simax will be in this range. The 22 x 1.5mm OD tol is 0.40mm Wall tol 0.20mm. If they went with 22 x 1.8mm it would be even better as this is quite a bit more robust of a glass and the manufacturing spec is tighter on it with an OD tol of 0.30mm though because of the 19mm oring I kind of doubt that is the case. In fact I am kind of wondering just what that is they are listing as a 19 x 1.5mm oring since metric orings are generally listed as ID x CS (cross section) and a 19mm ID oring seems like it would just fall off if the ID of the glass is supposed to be 19mm.

    Let us know anything you come up with Pocha
     
  5. morpheusneo

    morpheusneo Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 25, 2014
    Bristol, TN
    Any update on plans to have this glass soon? I'm the same as far as having your glass tanks on my erlkonigin and want to have the color options for my V4. The glass in the Kayfun V4 is a little different than others. The orings fit on the top and bottom of the glass instead of on the inside. It has tank sleeves that fit above and below the glass and the top sleeve has a nut that attaches to the chimney to put pressure between the sleeves and glass where the orings are to hold it together. I can add pictures if need be or pull out the calipers and measure the glass if measurements are needed. Thanks for offering glass reolacements with color options at such a great price!
     
  6. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    I ordered one of the clones, it says a 1:1 but I wont be able to confirm fit for the original.

    Thanks for the word on the way it seals morpheusneo, from the pictures I thought that was the case. Should not pose any problem and honestly the length is where we have control, sealing on the ID the design has to accommodate the tolerance in the manufacturing specification of the glass and sadly many designs just dont allow for this. Only issue I can see that could arise looking at the pictures is if the groove the oring is sitting in conflicts with the ID or OD of the glass, hopefully there is no problems there.

    Anyhow, if you have calipers please do list measurements, especially if you have the original so we can compare.
     
  7. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    We received our clone of this device today and I was able to take measurements and fit glass for it. The glass is sitting into a recessed groove so both the ID and OD are important here, the glass that came packaged with the device we purchased would not even fit the device, you could feel it grinding on the metal, measuring it showed the ID 0.25mm smaller than the metal that wanted to go inside of it.

    The good news is that this particular device shows decent tolerance for glass from a good supplier (like the Simax Glass we use). The critical measurements are the Minimum ID and Maximum OD as measured were

    Minimum ID = 19.25mm
    Maximum OD = 22.25mm

    These are the inside and outside measurements of the groove the oring sits in, if someone wants to measure their own device for comparison feel free to post it.

    Our 22 x 1.2 Glass nominal would be 22mm OD and 19.6mm ID allowing 0.25mm and 0.35mm variance for the OD and ID respectively. The piece I happened to grab to make the test fit pieces was running about 0.15mm over so the OD was 22.15 and the ID 19.75 and it fit perfectly. For length I have been told 13mm and the piece that came with the device was 13mm also (although it had too small of an ID to work anyhow) but the metal tank section is 12.7mm. I think 12.9mm would be a little closer to the metal tank length and also leave enough room for any variance in length to ensure none will ever be too short.

    The fact that the glass is very close on the OD max (0.10mm) with this particular piece concerns me on color for these since the Solid Colors and Swirls can be more than 0.05mm thick. This would mean they would scrape off the ends when assembling and might potentially pose issue in the assembly for some. The PRISM Colors are a much thinner layer so we will only be offering these in Clear or PRISM Colors.

    I will have these up on the site tonight or tomorrow under 'Other Tank Tubes'->KF4 and note in the description that they are for the clone though I am fairly certain they will be a fine fit on the original also. Pricing will be $5.00 and + $3.50 for color.
     
  8. morpheusneo

    morpheusneo Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 25, 2014
    Bristol, TN
    Caliper readings on original:

    OD - 21.8mm
    ID - 19.39mm
    thickness - 1.21mm

    each varied around +- .05 by turning the glass around or different times measuring it but this gives an idea.
     
  9. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    That OD for the original could present a real problem as it is smaller than the nominal OD of the available glass. Are you certain you did not have the calipers tilted where they might have been getting a reduced reading? You need to have just the tips inside and as perpendicular to the groove as you can get it then spin while spreading to get a real true OD on that groove.

    Wait, just realized you were measuring the glass section itself. That would put that into a will fit fine range on the clone too but for us the limits are what matters so we dont ship folks glass that wont fit so we need to know the measurements of the metal that will go inside of the glass and in this case also the metal the glass will go into.

    As I mentioned above, the glass that came with this particular clone I have here has a smaller ID than the metal part that needs to go inside of it. That was in the same box as the device, not a third party supplier such as ourselves so you can see where the troubles lie in making sure things fit.

    From what I see so far the 22 x 1.2mm tube should do fine. It fits what you have above for the glass that came with yours. It is running 0.20mm under sized but that is the nature of glass, two feet down the tube it is probably right on nominal and two feet further it is 0.20mm over but the KF4 has this amount of tolerance built into it.

    Thanks BTW for posting those measurements.
     
  10. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Wanted to note here that I did get this tube up on the site last night. You can find it here KF4 Tube

    Approximately 19.6mm ID
    Approximately 22.0mm OD
    1.2mm Wall
    12.9mm Length
     
  11. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Here is the critical measurement. If someone can verify these measurements on an original or show a particular clone version that is different we would be happy to see that.

    This the Max OD and Min ID of the oring groove where the tank section sits. Since the glass must go into this groove we have to make sure everything we ship will fit both the Max and Min and with many manufacturers selling a device with the same name it can help for folks to know if any are different.

    [​IMG]

    I also always recommend that folks who use these devices own a digital caliper. A decent digital caliper can be purchased at Harbor Freight for about half the cost of one of these clone devices and a high quality set can be purchased for less than the cost of an original device. The level of accuracy of the high quality calipers being 0.0005" isnt needed here but I would stay away from calipers that are all plastic making sure the measuring tangs and main rib are metal as I have seen the plastic ones give differing measurements on the same piece presumably because of flex. We use the Mitutoyo Absolute mainly because we do a lot of wet work.
     
  12. Pocha

    Pocha Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I saw that you have glass for th "KF4" on your website. I assume you got the dimensions? :)
     
  13. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Have not seen confirmation for dimensions of the original. I got my measurements off a replica device and that is noted in the item description. If you can supply the measurements or confirm what I have in that picture above from an original that would be great.
     
  14. Pocha

    Pocha Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I don't have an original and I just received a Tobeco clone yesterday. Wish I could help.
     
  15. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Pocha, if you want to confirm the measurements that would help. I honestly do not know the manufacturer of the replica I have, it came in a black box :) I know we have shipped quite a few of these tanks and so far have not heard any 'no fit' so I am thinkin they are all close enough. The design lends itself to being flexible in terms of machining differences in the different brands as long as they are not over the cliff in changes.
     
  16. Pocha

    Pocha Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I think the black box might be the EhPro clone. At least I know they come in black boxes. I don't have a set of calipers (yet) so I can't confirm the dimensions of my Tobeco (and I DON'T have an original) but I agree with you that the design lends itself to perhaps a bit of wiggle room. I'm gonna also agree that if you haven't heard any "complaints" that probably a really good sign!

    BTW...I'm the gal that contacted you about a week ago that had the problem with the "smoke" tank for the Erl Nano that was too light in color. Got my replacent (and additional tubes I bought) and it's perfect! You guys rock....awesome customer service!! I'm a customer for life!
     
  17. OCD

    OCD Unregistered Supplier ECF Veteran

    Jan 13, 2012
    California, Kern
    Cool, I remember you, you had a blue in your order along with the smoke. Good to hear the replacement was to your liking.
     
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