Great news for the UK
- Thread starter rolygate
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I think you'll find it's Do nothing until spring 2013 My interpretation is that they've opted for option 2, and are thinking about it a great deal before doing anything.
MLXs: Medicines consultation letters : MHRA
I have been waiting for this good news for months as i want to finally hand my notice in at work and become a full time supplier.
Not sure whether to risk it now... how does everyone see the European consultation going? and when i we likely to hear the result of this?
Not sure whether to risk it now... how does everyone see the European consultation going? and when i we likely to hear the result of this?
The short answer to your question is that for the next few years there is no prospect of any security/stability in the UK because:
1. If/when a Labour government get back in, whatever the current situation might be at that time, the game changes. They are (a) in favour of more regulation, and (b) obviously more amenable to persuasion from the pharmaceutical industry. If they were still in power, e-cigarettes would have been banned by now and there is absolutely no question about that.
2. It doesn't look as if the MHRA have any ammo left, they are firing blanks. But nothing is certain here.
3. An EU decision, one way or the other, can make all of this speculation obsolete - the UK normally has to follow their regulations. It depends what level the regs are: some have to be followed, some are advisories. If you have travelled around Europe, you will know that the UK enforces European law far more strictly than any other country, even Germany. In southern Europe, EU law is seen as something people way up north do but is not to be taken seriously. In France and Germany they like it when it suits. In Westminster they regard it as the bible. Nobody enforces it like Westminster.
You can't bet either way on the EU vote at present. If science wins, it goes in our favour. If the pharma money wins, it goes the way that WHO has - then all science goes out the window, the brown envelope rules. I don't know when the EU decides, Katherine would know.
So all in all it's a gamble. I'd go part-time for a while till the dust settles.
1. If/when a Labour government get back in, whatever the current situation might be at that time, the game changes. They are (a) in favour of more regulation, and (b) obviously more amenable to persuasion from the pharmaceutical industry. If they were still in power, e-cigarettes would have been banned by now and there is absolutely no question about that.
2. It doesn't look as if the MHRA have any ammo left, they are firing blanks. But nothing is certain here.
3. An EU decision, one way or the other, can make all of this speculation obsolete - the UK normally has to follow their regulations. It depends what level the regs are: some have to be followed, some are advisories. If you have travelled around Europe, you will know that the UK enforces European law far more strictly than any other country, even Germany. In southern Europe, EU law is seen as something people way up north do but is not to be taken seriously. In France and Germany they like it when it suits. In Westminster they regard it as the bible. Nobody enforces it like Westminster.
You can't bet either way on the EU vote at present. If science wins, it goes in our favour. If the pharma money wins, it goes the way that WHO has - then all science goes out the window, the brown envelope rules. I don't know when the EU decides, Katherine would know.
So all in all it's a gamble. I'd go part-time for a while till the dust settles.
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Yes, it seems Secretary Devlin has been posting this all over the place
.. I dont believe it for a second RolyDude
Still, I'll go read up ..... and will happily eat humble pie if I'm wrong .. never had it before, wonder what it tastes like !!
Still, I'll go read up ..... and will happily eat humble pie if I'm wrong .. never had it before, wonder what it tastes like !!
The MHRA situation is this:
Their application to ban ecigs (ie class them as pharmaceuticals) was rejected by another government agency, the RPC, which the current administration has given teeth to in order to limit new regulation. In contrast to the outgoing government, this one wants less regulation. The RPC classed the MHRA application as 'Red' under their 'traffic light' system for new regulatory proposals, meaning it failed outright. No amount of adjustment would have fixed that since all the figures in the IA are wrong.
Because the MHRA will not admit that their move failed, they did not class the result as any of the options and in fact tried to avoid any such classification. In practice we can classify the result as Option 3, Do Nothing - as that is what they were told to do by a more powerful government agency.
Since they are not independent and instead work to an industry agenda, they will keep trying to ban ecigs, and any move that fails will simply be dropped and a new approach tried. In this way, they can never actually fail (as they are not allowed to by their paymasters).
The next attack will by way of the courts, as a legal decision will allow them to sidestep any government controls and do what they wish. If that also fails (and it will cost us a lot of money in court to succeed, by the way), then they will simply wait till the government changes again. Labour will of course be amenable to their agenda for several reasons. Within a couple of years of a Labour government returning to power, ecigs will be banned - unless there is a court decision or EU central decision that prevents that.
The simple truth is that hard times are ahead, one way or another. All we won is breathing space. In one year's time, the MHRA will attack again, this time in the courts, as they hope to have accumulated sufficient research evidence by that time.
Their application to ban ecigs (ie class them as pharmaceuticals) was rejected by another government agency, the RPC, which the current administration has given teeth to in order to limit new regulation. In contrast to the outgoing government, this one wants less regulation. The RPC classed the MHRA application as 'Red' under their 'traffic light' system for new regulatory proposals, meaning it failed outright. No amount of adjustment would have fixed that since all the figures in the IA are wrong.
Because the MHRA will not admit that their move failed, they did not class the result as any of the options and in fact tried to avoid any such classification. In practice we can classify the result as Option 3, Do Nothing - as that is what they were told to do by a more powerful government agency.
Since they are not independent and instead work to an industry agenda, they will keep trying to ban ecigs, and any move that fails will simply be dropped and a new approach tried. In this way, they can never actually fail (as they are not allowed to by their paymasters).
The next attack will by way of the courts, as a legal decision will allow them to sidestep any government controls and do what they wish. If that also fails (and it will cost us a lot of money in court to succeed, by the way), then they will simply wait till the government changes again. Labour will of course be amenable to their agenda for several reasons. Within a couple of years of a Labour government returning to power, ecigs will be banned - unless there is a court decision or EU central decision that prevents that.
The simple truth is that hard times are ahead, one way or another. All we won is breathing space. In one year's time, the MHRA will attack again, this time in the courts, as they hope to have accumulated sufficient research evidence by that time.
I shoulda known ..... I went through the MHRA website yesterday and was gonna give my version of events ..... but thought better of it as the profanity filters would have asterisked every other word of my post ..... 
Dont worry though YankoMods, Ive calmed down now and will refrain from spewing outright insults ..... instead, will merely mock and ridicule (as per usual) in yet another futile attempt to awaken peeps from their slumber ..... or yall can just skip this post and go back to burying your heads in the sand .....
So, friends and foes ..... despite the fanfare, it turns out this is merely another episode of the ongoing Sit-Com that is VaperWorld ..... in fact with this weeks instalment, its actually turning in to an episode of the Twilight Zone ...... I feel a veritable Novel coming on .....
(Brace yourself Kathy my luv, you saying Weve Won over on Igetchas forum had me pulling out my hair ..... yup its gonna be long and painful babe ..... but thats in your favour because most of your deluded supporters dont have the attention span to read anything longer than a juice Review ..... however, as always, I will dumb it down as much as possible, so that even an American can follow)
Lets start at the beginning shall we ..... using logic instead of emotion for a change .....
For the love of vape, did people read the same announcement as me, or is there another one flying around made of rainbows and magic fairy dust ??
First frikkin page .....
Did anybody see that or was it just me ?! Were the words confusing, did they have spelling mistakes, was the punctuation incorrect ..... what is it about that simple and clear sentence that yall didnt understand ?? ..... I swear Idiocracy was supposed to be a movie, it seems it was actually a documentary .....
So We've Won have we ?? They are going to Do Nothing are they ?? You also believe in Santa Claus eh Kate v2.0 ??
It goes on .....
This, Babes and Dudes is merely Option 2 with an (ominously) extended deadline ..... which tacitly signifies their intention to continue pushing for Medical Regulation. Are you all blind, things are now MORE worrying not less ffs !! We were on to a good thing with the EU going down the Tobacco road, now it seems we could well be back to square one ..... but its OK, cos The Typist has said Weve Won .....
Furthermore .....
Dangit !! Vaping = Harm Reduction = NRT = Licensing = Big Pharma runs the show !! But its OK, cos The Petition Organiser has said Weve Won .....
Wait, theres more and its much worse .....
Double Dangit !! Theyve now got Lawyers on side and are preparing for the inevitable Court wranglings ..... plus theyve pretty much written themselves an all-encompassing framework to capture E-cigs under their umbrella either NRT or NCP means theyve covered all the angles and have Vaping cornered. And how in the name of Jesus H. Devlin can Nicotine be shown NOT to affect metabolism and have NO pharmacological action ffs ?? But its OK, cos The Coffee-Maker has said Weve Won .....
Open your eyes folks, Medicalisation is STILL very clearly, and very dangerously on the table ..... and this time, they have laid formidably strong foundations with little, if any room for manoeuvre in fact its quite obvious now that their hasty first attempt was merely a reconnaissance mission to examine the lay of the land and discover our weaknesses. It's also worth noting who and how many voted for Option 1 & 2 ..... damn near everyone who was of any importance ..... including frikkin Trading Standards who ECITA had supposedly formed an alliance with, huh ?? But its OK, cos Guy Fawkes Sister has said Weve Won .....
Thankfully a European Directive should overrule, sorry oooverturn standing/pending British Policy unless of course enforcement is to be limited or a carefully calculated get-out clause is drafted from inception ..... this is more likely than not, considering the WHO are intimately involved and would heartily welcome even greater restriction by member states ..... but its OK cos errr, Ive forgotten now, what was it again ??
At best, ECITA has achieved absolutely nothing positive so far, and realistically, has already made several minor mistakes (no doubt major mistakes will soon follow) which is why they/she jumped all over this announcement with so much premature and hyperactive glee. It actually amounts to nothing more than pushing out the deadline yet again, which to the uninitiated, may seem like a step toward victory, but is really just concrete confirmation of them actively pursuing what had originally been planned ..... no matter what it takes or how long it takes. This time however they have dotted the is and crossed the ts .....
So, despite Secretary Devlin pulling a Charlie Sheen by proclaiming Winning! - no such thing has happened AT ALL ..... what actually has taken place is they've merrily given themselves a couple of years to synchronise their plans with the EU/WHO (and no doubt FDA) ..... and they will do it all with the willing assistance of the industry itself ..... in other words, give em enough rope and theyll hang themselves ..... indeed, the MHRA will be working with ECITA to implement their strategy - which is indirectly acknowledging what they have been fantasising about all along ..... that this really IS a Medical issue ..... WTF !!
(excuse me for a moment while I run down to the garage and yell some exotic vocabulary out of earshot of my family)
Well I guess congratulations are in order then eh ..... well done ECITA, yall really put them in their place didnt you ..... we can all look forward to Secretary Devlin now assisting them to hammer in the final nail as shes just as UNqualified to speak on Medical issues as she is on Legal issues ..... Hurrah !!
FFS shes a lamb to the slaughter, and will bury Vaping in the coffin she so cheerfully just made for it ..... nevermind, shes still giggling and is arrogant enough to think she has an intellect of sufficient might to actually out-smart them before the funeral ..... with of course the full support of her equally unqualified and arrogant cheerleaders .....
Ya see, the threat of a silly little Secretary had utterly no influence in this pseudo-outcome (however they will be using her rampant naivety and lack of foresight to find further weaknesses which they can exploit) ..... it was purely the threat of a Legal Battle that brought about this extension ..... ECITA or (miniscule) Public (cyber)Pressure or even the change of Government had absolutely no part to play .....
The ongoing Court action over in Yankville, is being watched very closely by the MHRA, and no doubt the bigger UK Vendors like TW, Intelli and perhaps even the giant-killer that is Tesco (all of whom are not part of the magnificent ECITA!) ..... this is what made the MHRA decide to not go in for the kill just yet ..... its only the fear of a potential Legal Battle that gave them pause, and their aim to mesh effectively with upcoming European Rulings ..... once again, ECITA had absolutely no influence what so ever, despite them trying to bathe themselves in misplaced glory .....
(Also, and maybe I'm a little biased here, but instead of drooling all over ECITA and CASAA, will somebody please offer a little praise to Njoys Law Firm, Thompson Hine, who are the only muthas whove genuinely accomplished anything of merit so far ?? These guys did the job they were tasked to with admirable success, thats what happens when you hire Pros and actually spend Money!)
Now, back to the lesser of the two evils, Tobacco ..... Taxation is something we should be (very casually) encouraging. Yep I said it, somebody had to say it, and .....mit I just did !!
When the GovernMentals get their pound of flesh, Vaping will be safe ..... then, once E-cigs are fully legitimised, the Tobacco boys will dive in and take Vaping mainstream, which is something none of the present Vendors have the resources or intelligence to achieve ..... the only down sides being, (initially) a little less choice, and definitely a lot more cost, but that's life ..... we were used to paying an arm and leg for Smoking, we'll get used to doing the same with Vaping - its the health aspect that is the real benefit of E-cigs, saving a few squid is just a (temporary) bonus .....
We desperately need Professionals (not glorified Typists and Housewives) to be put in place instead of all this ridiculous amateur dramatics by inexperienced nobodies ...... an educated mind knows there are only two ways this can go, Medical or Tobacco, and we need the brightest and best to make sure it does NOT go Medical !!
If/When they do Tax Vaping (and of course bring about child-friendly Regulation to appease the majority of hysterical Non-Smokers, which to be honest is a necessity and ultimately not a bad thing at all) they will naturally require the same "compromises" that even the colossal Tobacco companies have had to "suffer" ..... with too much meddling by unqualified wannabes, it may just push/allow them to go the Medical path, or even surreptitiously suffocate Vaping entirely, (which is still within their remit, despite all the flowery talk) ..... this is easily achieved if they set the "safety" standards too high, implement testing procedures which are too costly, stipulate rigid licensing agreements, or even "rig" any of the forthcoming medical studies etc etc .....
They will want reduced flavours, they might want only lower strength Nicotine, they will probably want only Cartos, they may even restrict online sales and curtail advertising etc etc ..... these demands should be astutely met with shrewd practicality to ensure Vaping lives on to fight another day ..... we can slowly but surely dismantle these "compromises" in the years and decades to come .....
The truth is a degree of Regulation is essential ..... right now there is nothing stopping HiFi-Spud urinating in a bucket of PG and selling it to Vapers as 36mg Skeletor Juice ..... seriously peeps, we must not allow Skeletor Juice to flood our towns and cities, think of the children !! With no Regulation, its only a matter of time until the Media get enough ammo to bury us, with or without HiFi-Spuds pail of piss .....
The way it is though, all the simpletons will scweam and scweam to Do Nothing and keep things just as they are ..... partly due to their own lack of understanding of the issues at hand ..... partly due to certain incessantly crusading and totally clueless amateurs forming/forcing a woefully misguided consensus ..... but mainly due to short-sighted and selfish Vendors constantly manipulating their confused (feeble-minded?) customers to preserve the present profitable status-quo .....
For the sake of "Saving The Vendors" we may all lose out completely .....
On a positive note though (see, told ya I had calmed down!) even though ECITA is a huge liability, that has so far has caused far more harm than good ..... there are a some things they could do which would actually make them relevant .....
1) Get Government on-board
They dont care how they get our money, as long as they do ultimately get it ..... liaising with the Treasury and volunteering a co-operative approach to a workable Taxation structure .....
2) Get Big Tobacco on-board
Imperial Tobacco wanted a ban, however the smarter Tobacco companies didnt even bother expressing an opinion at all ..... they can see the writing on the wall for cigarettes in the developed nations ...... E-cigs are the next big market and they know it .....
3) Get Tesco on-board
They have the muscle to move mountains ..... and if they can see enough potential profit (and the potential in the decades to come is immense) they will become an almost invincible ally .....
Naturally these three will require enormous hard work and superlative talent, not to mention a great deal of discretion !!
4) Get Lawyers on-board FFS !!
Get it through your heads !! The only obstacle in their way is the LAW and the only truly effective way to fight is through the COURTS !! 18 months is plenty of time for both Vapers and Vendors to raise enough money to finally call in the Pro's ..... ECITA should quit wasting time throwing pixels across a screen and start putting together (a fully audited and ratified) Legal Fund for everybody to donate money to ..... otherwise, we are all gonna regret it ..... and no doubt will blame the System instead of ourselves when everything goes pear shaped ..... thousands of us are saving a small fortune thanks to Vaping ..... yet I wonder if it will happen, I wonder how many people will put their money where their mouth is ..... or will everybody just fill out ever so convenient yet utterly pointless petitions, and spend their pennies on over-priced shiny metal tubes ??
No doubt most of you will strongly disagree with the above, because ya know, yall have so much pertinent knowledge and experience of these things ..... so Ill end on a typically negative note .....
Its highly amusing that peeps think its a good sign that this announcement was deliberately made on No Smoking Day ..... it takes one to know one as they say, and being a Corporate Shark myself, I can see this for what it really is ..... with a nudge and a wink and an evil smirk on their face, theyre indirectly telling us we are all quitting smoking ..... and should expect everything that entails !! Nothing is a coincidence, they are grinning from ear to ear right now ..... watching you all think Weve Won" !!
But ya know what the funniest thing about all this is ..... the punch-line of the monumental Monty Python-esque joke that is VaperWorld ..... a weak version of Option 2 was on the table last year, but every Genius his uncle thought it was (or were brain-washed to believe it was) a disaster ..... now we have a much stronger version of the very same Option 2 ..... and all those Geniuses are calling it a frikkin victory !!Rodney Katherine you plonker !!
PS: RolyDude, a man of your intelligence really should know better than to be propagating hype over substance - it breeds complacency and carelessness (weve got enough of that already ffs!) ..... which you of all people will appreciate is precisely what the enemy want/expect (and have evidently received!) ..... we should be keeping our guard up from now on and preparing our defences, not breathing a sigh of relief .....
PPS: Ill copy/paste this to the UK section too, this release by the MHRA most certainly is NOT Great news for the UK !!
[/Novel]
Dont worry though YankoMods, Ive calmed down now and will refrain from spewing outright insults ..... instead, will merely mock and ridicule (as per usual) in yet another futile attempt to awaken peeps from their slumber ..... or yall can just skip this post and go back to burying your heads in the sand .....
So, friends and foes ..... despite the fanfare, it turns out this is merely another episode of the ongoing Sit-Com that is VaperWorld ..... in fact with this weeks instalment, its actually turning in to an episode of the Twilight Zone ...... I feel a veritable Novel coming on .....
(Brace yourself Kathy my luv, you saying Weve Won over on Igetchas forum had me pulling out my hair ..... yup its gonna be long and painful babe ..... but thats in your favour because most of your deluded supporters dont have the attention span to read anything longer than a juice Review ..... however, as always, I will dumb it down as much as possible, so that even an American can follow)
Lets start at the beginning shall we ..... using logic instead of emotion for a change .....
For the love of vape, did people read the same announcement as me, or is there another one flying around made of rainbows and magic fairy dust ??
First frikkin page .....
Did anybody see that or was it just me ?! Were the words confusing, did they have spelling mistakes, was the punctuation incorrect ..... what is it about that simple and clear sentence that yall didnt understand ?? ..... I swear Idiocracy was supposed to be a movie, it seems it was actually a documentary .....
So We've Won have we ?? They are going to Do Nothing are they ?? You also believe in Santa Claus eh Kate v2.0 ??
It goes on .....
This, Babes and Dudes is merely Option 2 with an (ominously) extended deadline ..... which tacitly signifies their intention to continue pushing for Medical Regulation. Are you all blind, things are now MORE worrying not less ffs !! We were on to a good thing with the EU going down the Tobacco road, now it seems we could well be back to square one ..... but its OK, cos The Typist has said Weve Won .....
Furthermore .....
Dangit !! Vaping = Harm Reduction = NRT = Licensing = Big Pharma runs the show !! But its OK, cos The Petition Organiser has said Weve Won .....
Wait, theres more and its much worse .....
Double Dangit !! Theyve now got Lawyers on side and are preparing for the inevitable Court wranglings ..... plus theyve pretty much written themselves an all-encompassing framework to capture E-cigs under their umbrella either NRT or NCP means theyve covered all the angles and have Vaping cornered. And how in the name of Jesus H. Devlin can Nicotine be shown NOT to affect metabolism and have NO pharmacological action ffs ?? But its OK, cos The Coffee-Maker has said Weve Won .....
Open your eyes folks, Medicalisation is STILL very clearly, and very dangerously on the table ..... and this time, they have laid formidably strong foundations with little, if any room for manoeuvre in fact its quite obvious now that their hasty first attempt was merely a reconnaissance mission to examine the lay of the land and discover our weaknesses. It's also worth noting who and how many voted for Option 1 & 2 ..... damn near everyone who was of any importance ..... including frikkin Trading Standards who ECITA had supposedly formed an alliance with, huh ?? But its OK, cos Guy Fawkes Sister has said Weve Won .....
Thankfully a European Directive should overrule, sorry oooverturn standing/pending British Policy unless of course enforcement is to be limited or a carefully calculated get-out clause is drafted from inception ..... this is more likely than not, considering the WHO are intimately involved and would heartily welcome even greater restriction by member states ..... but its OK cos errr, Ive forgotten now, what was it again ??
At best, ECITA has achieved absolutely nothing positive so far, and realistically, has already made several minor mistakes (no doubt major mistakes will soon follow) which is why they/she jumped all over this announcement with so much premature and hyperactive glee. It actually amounts to nothing more than pushing out the deadline yet again, which to the uninitiated, may seem like a step toward victory, but is really just concrete confirmation of them actively pursuing what had originally been planned ..... no matter what it takes or how long it takes. This time however they have dotted the is and crossed the ts .....
So, despite Secretary Devlin pulling a Charlie Sheen by proclaiming Winning! - no such thing has happened AT ALL ..... what actually has taken place is they've merrily given themselves a couple of years to synchronise their plans with the EU/WHO (and no doubt FDA) ..... and they will do it all with the willing assistance of the industry itself ..... in other words, give em enough rope and theyll hang themselves ..... indeed, the MHRA will be working with ECITA to implement their strategy - which is indirectly acknowledging what they have been fantasising about all along ..... that this really IS a Medical issue ..... WTF !!
(excuse me for a moment while I run down to the garage and yell some exotic vocabulary out of earshot of my family)
Well I guess congratulations are in order then eh ..... well done ECITA, yall really put them in their place didnt you ..... we can all look forward to Secretary Devlin now assisting them to hammer in the final nail as shes just as UNqualified to speak on Medical issues as she is on Legal issues ..... Hurrah !!
FFS shes a lamb to the slaughter, and will bury Vaping in the coffin she so cheerfully just made for it ..... nevermind, shes still giggling and is arrogant enough to think she has an intellect of sufficient might to actually out-smart them before the funeral ..... with of course the full support of her equally unqualified and arrogant cheerleaders .....
Ya see, the threat of a silly little Secretary had utterly no influence in this pseudo-outcome (however they will be using her rampant naivety and lack of foresight to find further weaknesses which they can exploit) ..... it was purely the threat of a Legal Battle that brought about this extension ..... ECITA or (miniscule) Public (cyber)Pressure or even the change of Government had absolutely no part to play .....
The ongoing Court action over in Yankville, is being watched very closely by the MHRA, and no doubt the bigger UK Vendors like TW, Intelli and perhaps even the giant-killer that is Tesco (all of whom are not part of the magnificent ECITA!) ..... this is what made the MHRA decide to not go in for the kill just yet ..... its only the fear of a potential Legal Battle that gave them pause, and their aim to mesh effectively with upcoming European Rulings ..... once again, ECITA had absolutely no influence what so ever, despite them trying to bathe themselves in misplaced glory .....
(Also, and maybe I'm a little biased here, but instead of drooling all over ECITA and CASAA, will somebody please offer a little praise to Njoys Law Firm, Thompson Hine, who are the only muthas whove genuinely accomplished anything of merit so far ?? These guys did the job they were tasked to with admirable success, thats what happens when you hire Pros and actually spend Money!)
Now, back to the lesser of the two evils, Tobacco ..... Taxation is something we should be (very casually) encouraging. Yep I said it, somebody had to say it, and .....mit I just did !!
When the GovernMentals get their pound of flesh, Vaping will be safe ..... then, once E-cigs are fully legitimised, the Tobacco boys will dive in and take Vaping mainstream, which is something none of the present Vendors have the resources or intelligence to achieve ..... the only down sides being, (initially) a little less choice, and definitely a lot more cost, but that's life ..... we were used to paying an arm and leg for Smoking, we'll get used to doing the same with Vaping - its the health aspect that is the real benefit of E-cigs, saving a few squid is just a (temporary) bonus .....
We desperately need Professionals (not glorified Typists and Housewives) to be put in place instead of all this ridiculous amateur dramatics by inexperienced nobodies ...... an educated mind knows there are only two ways this can go, Medical or Tobacco, and we need the brightest and best to make sure it does NOT go Medical !!
If/When they do Tax Vaping (and of course bring about child-friendly Regulation to appease the majority of hysterical Non-Smokers, which to be honest is a necessity and ultimately not a bad thing at all) they will naturally require the same "compromises" that even the colossal Tobacco companies have had to "suffer" ..... with too much meddling by unqualified wannabes, it may just push/allow them to go the Medical path, or even surreptitiously suffocate Vaping entirely, (which is still within their remit, despite all the flowery talk) ..... this is easily achieved if they set the "safety" standards too high, implement testing procedures which are too costly, stipulate rigid licensing agreements, or even "rig" any of the forthcoming medical studies etc etc .....
They will want reduced flavours, they might want only lower strength Nicotine, they will probably want only Cartos, they may even restrict online sales and curtail advertising etc etc ..... these demands should be astutely met with shrewd practicality to ensure Vaping lives on to fight another day ..... we can slowly but surely dismantle these "compromises" in the years and decades to come .....
The truth is a degree of Regulation is essential ..... right now there is nothing stopping HiFi-Spud urinating in a bucket of PG and selling it to Vapers as 36mg Skeletor Juice ..... seriously peeps, we must not allow Skeletor Juice to flood our towns and cities, think of the children !! With no Regulation, its only a matter of time until the Media get enough ammo to bury us, with or without HiFi-Spuds pail of piss .....
The way it is though, all the simpletons will scweam and scweam to Do Nothing and keep things just as they are ..... partly due to their own lack of understanding of the issues at hand ..... partly due to certain incessantly crusading and totally clueless amateurs forming/forcing a woefully misguided consensus ..... but mainly due to short-sighted and selfish Vendors constantly manipulating their confused (feeble-minded?) customers to preserve the present profitable status-quo .....
For the sake of "Saving The Vendors" we may all lose out completely .....
On a positive note though (see, told ya I had calmed down!) even though ECITA is a huge liability, that has so far has caused far more harm than good ..... there are a some things they could do which would actually make them relevant .....
1) Get Government on-board
They dont care how they get our money, as long as they do ultimately get it ..... liaising with the Treasury and volunteering a co-operative approach to a workable Taxation structure .....
2) Get Big Tobacco on-board
Imperial Tobacco wanted a ban, however the smarter Tobacco companies didnt even bother expressing an opinion at all ..... they can see the writing on the wall for cigarettes in the developed nations ...... E-cigs are the next big market and they know it .....
3) Get Tesco on-board
They have the muscle to move mountains ..... and if they can see enough potential profit (and the potential in the decades to come is immense) they will become an almost invincible ally .....
Naturally these three will require enormous hard work and superlative talent, not to mention a great deal of discretion !!
4) Get Lawyers on-board FFS !!
Get it through your heads !! The only obstacle in their way is the LAW and the only truly effective way to fight is through the COURTS !! 18 months is plenty of time for both Vapers and Vendors to raise enough money to finally call in the Pro's ..... ECITA should quit wasting time throwing pixels across a screen and start putting together (a fully audited and ratified) Legal Fund for everybody to donate money to ..... otherwise, we are all gonna regret it ..... and no doubt will blame the System instead of ourselves when everything goes pear shaped ..... thousands of us are saving a small fortune thanks to Vaping ..... yet I wonder if it will happen, I wonder how many people will put their money where their mouth is ..... or will everybody just fill out ever so convenient yet utterly pointless petitions, and spend their pennies on over-priced shiny metal tubes ??
No doubt most of you will strongly disagree with the above, because ya know, yall have so much pertinent knowledge and experience of these things ..... so Ill end on a typically negative note .....
Its highly amusing that peeps think its a good sign that this announcement was deliberately made on No Smoking Day ..... it takes one to know one as they say, and being a Corporate Shark myself, I can see this for what it really is ..... with a nudge and a wink and an evil smirk on their face, theyre indirectly telling us we are all quitting smoking ..... and should expect everything that entails !! Nothing is a coincidence, they are grinning from ear to ear right now ..... watching you all think Weve Won" !!
But ya know what the funniest thing about all this is ..... the punch-line of the monumental Monty Python-esque joke that is VaperWorld ..... a weak version of Option 2 was on the table last year, but every Genius his uncle thought it was (or were brain-washed to believe it was) a disaster ..... now we have a much stronger version of the very same Option 2 ..... and all those Geniuses are calling it a frikkin victory !!
PS: RolyDude, a man of your intelligence really should know better than to be propagating hype over substance - it breeds complacency and carelessness (weve got enough of that already ffs!) ..... which you of all people will appreciate is precisely what the enemy want/expect (and have evidently received!) ..... we should be keeping our guard up from now on and preparing our defences, not breathing a sigh of relief .....
PPS: Ill copy/paste this to the UK section too, this release by the MHRA most certainly is NOT Great news for the UK !!
[/Novel]
Your conclusion is quite correct sir ..... you're obviously not just a Secretary
I just clicked on your link Skeletor, but while watching the commercial I remembered something ..... that you have no Legal expertise, no Medical qualifications, no Political knowledge and no relevant Corporate experience ..... therefore are just another clueless nobody who doesn't have the first idea what you're talking about .....
Still, I am morbidly curious over what an [removed] like you has to say ..... so would you be good enough to jot down a concise synopsis of your thoughts on the matter ..... it would be fascinating to see if/how you have progressed from the last time I laughed at your delusions over on UKVendors !!
PS: I'm sure you were expecting bajillions of Views ..... why do you think you have garnered so few ??
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Yup, they ain't gonna quit !!
I'm surprised you think whoever is in No. 10 matters so much Roly ..... this is not really a Political issue dude, it's purely Financial .....
Whichever Party is in power, they will be advised by the same analysts and be presented with the same facts and figures and charts ..... the Policy that will be followed will be the one that keeps a steady flow to the coffers ..... we have to make sure that Vaping makes them money or we are screwed .....
Sorry babe* but it is. Under Lab this would have passed; Con/Lib had their watchdog stop it. The MHRA's regulatory proposal was refused by the RPC, a newly-reinforced agency that has the power to prevent unrealistic regulatory proposals going ahead.
This is why the MHRA's next attack will be at law, in order to bypass government controls. Comes to something when a government dept. is so [removed by Legal Dept.] that it will even try to out-manoeuvre its own bosses...
But in a wider sense, I agree: it's all about the money, and the power that money has to pervert due process. Pharma will fight hard on this, and they have the money. They also have your money too, of course, as their agents have your tax ££. How does that make you feel?
* apologies, I mean geezer of course
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This is highly disappointing RolyDude, you are usually right about most things baby !!Sorry babe* but it is. Under Lab this would have passed; Con/Lib had their watchdog stop it. The MHRA's regulatory proposal was refused by the RPC, a newly-reinforced agency that has the power to prevent unrealistic regulatory proposals going ahead.
This is why the MHRA's next attack will be at law, in order to bypass government controls. Comes to something when a government dept. is so [removed by Legal Dept.] that it will even try to out-manoeuvre its own bosses...
But in a wider sense, I agree: it's all about the money, and the power that money has to pervert due process. Pharma will fight hard on this, and they have the money. They also have your money too, of course, as their agents have your tax ££. How does that make you feel?
* apologies, I mean geezer of course
Would I be correct in saying you are letting your political affiliations cloud your judgement bro ??
The Government is a patsy that has been working for the Corporations ever since Maggie ..... Money calls the shots and the RPC is just going through the motions thanks to the state of the Economy ..... we live in interesting times Roly, apparently that is an old Chinese curse, quite fitting wouldn't you agree .....
PS: What's so terrible about double-posting ..... would it cause World War 3 ?!
I think a route like this is essential to preserve vaping as a legal and 'healthier' alternative to smoking tobacco. If nicotine is medicinalised in all its forms,,,,,where is the fun???,,,,and will it then lead to further legal drugs being medicinalised, like my beloved Pint????
The Consumer/Community Association (if formed), should be working towards preserving the right of adults to use legal recreational drug nicotine safely, through one of the safer forms of delivery,,,,,the e-cig. Any Government worth its salt needs to make money from e-cigs, they would be very stupid if they didn't. Let's help them decide the best way of making it is not through medicinalisation.
Rusty
Your Pint is heavily Taxed, so is safe and sound Ruster !!
A Consumer Association would only achieve anything if it is huge, has plenty of money ..... and hires Lawyers .....
Exactly ..... is that being done though ..... No
Is it likely to be done ..... not by the amateurs we've got so far .....
The Management regret to announce that quoting long posts by Perf. is currently under consideration as an infactable offence. We have therefore removed this quote pending a decision.
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That is the longest post I ever saw. And yes, I couldn't resist quoting it
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