Hey No Problem.
And BTW - I think the whole things is Stupid and Heavy Handed BS on the FDA's part.
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Hey No Problem.
And BTW - I think the whole things is Stupid and Heavy Handed BS on the FDA's part.
I don't believe that is Correct. At least not inside the Bounds of the Physical Store.
They can Help you with Anything they Sell. As long as it Isn't Altered in some way.
Now that Doesn't stop an Individual from Making a Video on how to say Re-Coil a Coil-Head. But when the Grey Area starts is if you want to say that you are from Bla Bla Bla vape shop in the video.
Just shy $1.5 billion a year, or about 0.04% of federal tax revenue. In other words, it shouldn't be terribly significant in the overall scheme of things as far as the FedGov is concerned.
I think it would be more. Commercial juice at $15.00 for a 30ml bottle would cost me around $2.00 a day, which makes it a $3 billion a year market, give or take.
Incidentally, that would still be dirt cheap compared to smoking. I was spending $10-$12 a day on my cigs.
OK... Take that 1.5B and throw another 500M or so on it.
Because I was just considering Full Time Ex-Smokers. And Not Dual Users or those who have Cut Down.
Now do the Same thing for the Sate you Live in using your PAD Tax Basis. Not to Mention Reduction in MSA Payments if you get them.
The Long and the Short of it is e-Cigarettes have created a large Sucking Sound when it comes to Tax Revenues.
And Yes, I know that compared to the Entire Budget, $2,000,000,000.00 might not seem like a larger percentage. But does that Diminish the Value of what $2,000,000,000.00 can buy if you Had it.
And What you Can't if you Don't?
Yeah... I threw out the One Dollar because it Aligned with the $1.01 Federal Tax number for a Pack of Smokes. So the Math would have been for all intent and Purposes the same.
So we have say a 3B dollar e-Liquid Industry. And the FDA can shake it out so there is only going to be a Handful of Players.
At that point, even if you Only had a 7% Market Share, would spending 10 or 15 of 20 Million to get a 7% Slice be that bad of a Deal?
You know how much DIY Costs. So I'm sure you could think of the Margins involved.
I thought it was they could tell you, they couldn't do it. That would be modifying.
Then people pointed out the idiocy, having someone who wasn't physically able to change a coil no matter how much you told them how, would have to smoke instead. So the FDA modded their explanation of their idiocy. They didn't actually change anything because like many laws it's written to confuse and be whatever law enforcement wants it to be so they can go after anyone they want.
This from London.
This time power tools.
Five hurt in power drill battery explosion at Southgate Tube station
This time power tools.
Five hurt in power drill battery explosion at Southgate Tube station
I'm going to sue Levis for making pockets that can fit batteries and change at the same time and not telling me to not do that. I'm pretty sure they have a bigger bank account than any vape company.
Oh man, I would love a safer battery. Common sense vs. common knowledge does go a long way. The (engineer) husband required several scoldings, and I wound up showing him pics) to not leave batteries out in direct sunlight (summer was approaching, and I'm not entirely sure how "hot" is too hot for a battery, but in direct sunlight and in an enclosed space, things get pretty hot.
The thing is, to him Li-Ion batteries weren't a big deal, because he uses power equipment all the time without incident but they are in a more protected format. I did look up stats on power tools (I was interested) and there have been plenty of incidents, enough to be worrisome I mean, people use power tools incorrectly all the time.
The vape shop I frequent (Freedomsmoke USA) actually DOES have battery info scattered about the last time I went in. I was pleased to see it (and also pointed the forum supplier to Baditude's blog, LOL, for MORE info) although I don't know what happened etc.
I do think this is an area where vape shops need to improve. OKAY so you sell a SUPER FANTASTIC mech mod to a new user, without much education.) You JUST (potentially) killed your golden goose if anything happens. Well done!
Sigh. I think this is one place where vape shops have substantial room for improvement. A LOT. I also kind of agree that the FDA would be "within their scope" as far as regulating or closing the most unscrupulous ones.
If I were an owner, if I sold batteries, they'd be authentic and verified as such. The markup in a vape shop is substantial enough that really, they don't HAVE to sell rewaps or seconded batteries. They just DON'T. Also battery education in a normal human being doesn't really have to take a long time, in fact a short "I understand" statement could be listed, FOR EVERY CUSTOMER, EVERY TIME that they initial (and maybe keep an eye on them to make sure they are reading it, or AFTER the statement is read, a short multiple choice quiz and they need a good score to leave with the equipment.
IDK, I'm sure some customers might find it insulting, but I would LOVE it if a shop ever did that to me. Man I would praise them to the skies, and if you ALREADY know the info, it would take a MINUTE. No batteries sold without carrying cases and etc. I would simply say: "This is for your protection AND mine."
Because I do think the common knowledge argument is reasonable. The only reason I had any battery safety at all was in the beginning I was using internal batteries, and when I started this time, the kid gave me that brief primer. LOL. He's a reddit kid, but he successfully selected good batteries and a charger and also used to come check my wraps, my coil heads etc. He's a great kid.. Now that I know as much as him he is a bit disconcerted but also happy I'm not vaping (in his eyes anyway) "burnt" coils. Etc.
So, many are lucky to have the knowledge but not all.
Online sales are tougher though, although I think a lot of retail vendors are doing themselves no favors. If this customs check comes to fruition, if I were in charge, I'd look for batteries FIRST and return them. Etc, if not from reputable sellers and etc.
This is making me think I want to stock up on batteries and FREEZE them but man, there's only so far I'm willing to go, etc.
The vape shops that will stay in business are the ones working closely with the FDA and ahead of the game, I'm thinking.
But build a better battery solves it ALL.
I am rethinking my stance on this one but I still think batteries, even AA batteries, in a pocket with loose change, any battery that should be COMMON knowledge but I guess it's not. I don't know man, if any settlement is reached it should be a 50/50 sort of thing. Even I know at age 12 there were things you do and don't do with batteries. I also knew not to stick a fork in an outlet, etc., etc., etc.
Course, my brother actually did that (as an adolescent) with some grounding protections. He's a fairly smart dude. His rationale was "I wanted to see what it was like." He didn't do it TWICE, either.
Anna
Anna
The thing is, to him Li-Ion batteries weren't a big deal, because he uses power equipment all the time without incident but they are in a more protected format. I did look up stats on power tools (I was interested) and there have been plenty of incidents, enough to be worrisome I mean, people use power tools incorrectly all the time.
The vape shop I frequent (Freedomsmoke USA) actually DOES have battery info scattered about the last time I went in. I was pleased to see it (and also pointed the forum supplier to Baditude's blog, LOL, for MORE info) although I don't know what happened etc.
I do think this is an area where vape shops need to improve. OKAY so you sell a SUPER FANTASTIC mech mod to a new user, without much education.) You JUST (potentially) killed your golden goose if anything happens. Well done!
Sigh. I think this is one place where vape shops have substantial room for improvement. A LOT. I also kind of agree that the FDA would be "within their scope" as far as regulating or closing the most unscrupulous ones.
If I were an owner, if I sold batteries, they'd be authentic and verified as such. The markup in a vape shop is substantial enough that really, they don't HAVE to sell rewaps or seconded batteries. They just DON'T. Also battery education in a normal human being doesn't really have to take a long time, in fact a short "I understand" statement could be listed, FOR EVERY CUSTOMER, EVERY TIME that they initial (and maybe keep an eye on them to make sure they are reading it, or AFTER the statement is read, a short multiple choice quiz and they need a good score to leave with the equipment.
IDK, I'm sure some customers might find it insulting, but I would LOVE it if a shop ever did that to me. Man I would praise them to the skies, and if you ALREADY know the info, it would take a MINUTE. No batteries sold without carrying cases and etc. I would simply say: "This is for your protection AND mine."
Because I do think the common knowledge argument is reasonable. The only reason I had any battery safety at all was in the beginning I was using internal batteries, and when I started this time, the kid gave me that brief primer. LOL. He's a reddit kid, but he successfully selected good batteries and a charger and also used to come check my wraps, my coil heads etc. He's a great kid.. Now that I know as much as him he is a bit disconcerted but also happy I'm not vaping (in his eyes anyway) "burnt" coils. Etc.
So, many are lucky to have the knowledge but not all.
Online sales are tougher though, although I think a lot of retail vendors are doing themselves no favors. If this customs check comes to fruition, if I were in charge, I'd look for batteries FIRST and return them. Etc, if not from reputable sellers and etc.
This is making me think I want to stock up on batteries and FREEZE them but man, there's only so far I'm willing to go, etc.
The vape shops that will stay in business are the ones working closely with the FDA and ahead of the game, I'm thinking.
But build a better battery solves it ALL.
I am rethinking my stance on this one but I still think batteries, even AA batteries, in a pocket with loose change, any battery that should be COMMON knowledge but I guess it's not. I don't know man, if any settlement is reached it should be a 50/50 sort of thing. Even I know at age 12 there were things you do and don't do with batteries. I also knew not to stick a fork in an outlet, etc., etc., etc.Course, my brother actually did that (as an adolescent) with some grounding protections. He's a fairly smart dude. His rationale was "I wanted to see what it was like." He didn't do it TWICE, either.
Anna
Anna
Yeah, next thing you know, they'll remove the pockets. Then I'll have to get a man purse.
It SHOULD be common knowledge, but I think one reason it might not be is that AA batteries don't contain the high energy that a Li-Ion cell does. So even if you screw up and put a AA in your pocket with change, the results aren't as severe. Probably most times you just ruin the battery. So people don't think as much because they aren't aware of the consequences.But build a better battery solves it ALL.
Like I said, a safer battery is just better for everybody. I hope they can be done in a cost effective way, I understand the argument about not wanting to penalize the folks who do things safely and that's my biggest worry with a safe battery design is that it will cost more. But I'd rest easier not having to just worry about if I screwed up, but also the guy next to me on the bus or plane (can you take these things on planes?). For his sake and mine.
Great, how do we do that? It is impossible to control what a person does with a product once they take it home. So the only way to 100% prevent all people from doing something stupid with any given product is to either eliminate the product or eliminate people. Which option is acceptable to you? The reality is, neither is a good option. We as a society have to recognize that in order to have various products, we have to be willing to accept some level of "Accidental Death or Dismemberment" that will arise out of someone doing something stupid with the products.
Sure you might be able to reduce occurrences with some education, public awareness campaigns, etc. but you will not "stop these incidents" as long as both people and the products exists. I mean there are STILL a lot of people that are electrocuted every year using electronics in the bathtub. How much education and public awareness has been done to prevent this? Yet it still happens MORE often than a battery exploding in the pocket. No one is crying to ban cell phones, radios, hair dryers, etc. We have already accepted the levels of loss for these products.
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To be Honest with you, the Whole Thing was a Un-Thought Out Cluster
.The FDA's intent was Basically Two Fold.
1 - They Didn't want Retailers being involved in doing DIY for Customers. Because that would Undermine a future Flavor Ban/Flavor Amount Restriction.
2 - They Didn't want Retailers in Any Way altering a Closed System Atomizer/AIO.
In the FDA's eye's, a Worst Case Scenario would be a Retailer helping a Customer to Re-Wick a Pod Mod Pod that wasn't intended to be Re-Wicked. And then Filling showing a Customer how to fill it using an FDA "approved" e-Liquid that had been DIY-ed to Increase the Flavor Level. Or to Add a Flavor that the FDA didn't deem as OK.
But, as you Mentioned, they wrote the Rule Set so Convolutely, that about Any Help a Retailer gave a customer could be Interpreted as a Violation.
That and when people 1st saw the Regs, there was Pervasive Talk on Forums/Social Media that if a Retailer gave a Customer any help that Jack Booted thugs would descend on the Retailer like in some Low Budget Action Thriller.
And if something is told Enough Times by Enough People than it has a way of becoming a Truth.
The Long and the Short of it for this thread is the FDA wants Retailers to be Informing Customers about Safe Battery Practices. And wants to Minimize Battery Accidents thru Reasonable Means.
They even have made a Half-Azzed attempt at promoting Safe Practices by making some somewhat hoeky graphics that Retailers can use.
Exm: Tips to Help Avoid "Vape" Battery Explosions
Well 100% isn't going to be achievable so I'm sorry if that's what I implied. Even if you have a battery with recessed terminals that isn't going to stop some idiot from sticking a fork in there and blowing up the battery. Or keep him from dropping it in the toilet, or whatever. That doesn't mean we shouldn't strive to be safer in product design. That doesn't mean you have to eliminate the product, just make a better design.
I work in the electric utility industry so I'm certainly not unaware that a certain amount of risk must be accepted for modern society to function. That doesn't mean we don't try to reduce risk when we can. Like the analogy I gave earlier where electrical conductor is raised in the substation to keep it out of reach. My employer requires substation entry training to be able to go into one without an escort. That training includes identification of live parts. Being so trained, common sense would say "don't touch a live conductor". But we go a step further for safety's sake. It won't stop someone who really wants to hurt himself from doing so. But it prevents accidents that arise from the inevitable brain-fart moments.
My goodness, I only have one year left before my chances of choking increase dramatically - Ensure, here I come.
I once looked up death stats (yeah I was a goth in my youth AND MY SINCERE apologies, LOL).
I was like, "How can mattresses be so fatal?" And then realized a lot of folks die in their sleep.
The way the stats are done can be a bit misleading. It made me EVEN MORE afraid to remove those "Do not remove under penalty of law" tags.
I have since learned the tag can be removed AFTER purchase. LOL.
Anna
I was like, "How can mattresses be so fatal?" And then realized a lot of folks die in their sleep.
The way the stats are done can be a bit misleading. It made me EVEN MORE afraid to remove those "Do not remove under penalty of law" tags.
I have since learned the tag can be removed AFTER purchase. LOL.
Anna
Really Couldn't Agree With This More.
I do/have done a lot of Design work with the Owner of a company that makes Plastic Container Packaging. And a part of that is making Child Resistant Packaging (CRP).
Notice that it is Resistant, not the "Proof" as many will Mistakenly call it.
It is defined as Resistant because there is an Old Joke in the CRP Industry. And that is...
"If you Want to make something Child Proof, the ONLY Way to do it is to make it Adult Proof."
People like to Talk about Safer this or Safer that. And that is All Well and Good. But when it comes down to Cold Hard Reality of Quantifying what exactly is "Safer" is, that when things start to get Vague.
And Safer Always has a Price. And that Price might be Monetary. Or it might be Functionally. Or it Might be Ease of Use.
I can Make a Safer Battery tomorrow that has the Same Electrical Performance as an 18650. It just Isn't going to work in any Existing 18650 Applications. So your going to Need a New ____ , and a New Charger, and a New Factory Line, and New Factory Line Machines.
So is that Worth it? Or did I just Create a Very Pricey Solution to a something that Really Isn't a very Numerically Large Problem on the Population Level?
To be Honest with you, the Whole Thing was a Un-Thought Out Cluster
The FDA's intent was Basically Two Fold.
1 - They Didn't want Retailers being involved in doing DIY for Customers. Because that would Undermine a future Flavor Ban/Flavor Amount Restriction.
2 - They Didn't want Retailers in Any Way altering a Closed System Atomizer/AIO.
In the FDA's eye's, a Worst Case Scenario would be a Retailer helping a Customer to Re-Wick a Pod Mod Pod that wasn't intended to be Re-Wicked. And then Filling showing a Customer how to fill it using an FDA "approved" e-Liquid that had been DIY-ed to Increase the Flavor Level. Or to Add a Flavor that the FDA didn't deem as OK.
But, as you Mentioned, they wrote the Rule Set so Convolutely, that about Any Help a Retailer gave a customer could be Interpreted as a Violation.
That and when people 1st saw the Regs, there was Pervasive Talk on Forums/Social Media that if a Retailer gave a Customer any help that Jack Booted thugs would descend on the Retailer like in some Low Budget Action Thriller.
And if something is told Enough Times by Enough People than it has a way of becoming a Truth.
The Long and the Short of it for this thread is the FDA wants Retailers to be Informing Customers about Safe Battery Practices. And wants to Minimize Battery Accidents thru Reasonable Means.
They even have made a Half-Azzed attempt at promoting Safe Practices by making some somewhat hoeky graphics that Retailers can use.
Exm: Tips to Help Avoid "Vape" Battery Explosions
I could agree with you more if it wasn't for the jack booted thugs. Watch some raw milk videos. I'm not pro-raw milk, it has a potential to expose me to TB, but I've seen a lot of jack booted thuggery over that issue.
I could easily see the FDA sending out fake customers to have a store employee fix their coil and then raid the place for being a manufacturer.
I see your sign on date. You were around to see people's life savings confiscated in actions a court said were not within the FDA's power. How can you have any faith they wouldn't use anything in their power to do the same?
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