Guy hospitalized - batteries explode, loose in pocket with coins - blames industry

[zoiDman]

...

I see your sign on date. You were around to see people's life savings confiscated in actions a court said were not within the FDA's power. How can you have any faith they wouldn't use anything in their power to do the same?

Because the FDA isn't a Static Entity. It changes as the HHS/FDA Leadership Changes. And as the Political Climate Changes.

And what the FDA has Done in the Past is No Indication of what they are Doing Now or in the Future. Good or Bad.

Don't get me Wrong. I have No Great Love for the FDA. Or in Any Way Shape or Form believe that the Primary Goal of the FDA is that PC Crap that they have in their "Mission Statement".

But the e-Cigarette/e-liquid Policy direction under current FDA Commissionaire is a Far Cry from what we saw under Hamburg or under Califf.

If we were having this Conversation back when Hamburg/Califf were running the FDA under HHS Secretary Seblius or Burwell's control, my views would be Vastly Different.

Which should give People something to Think About every now and again. What Happens if/when(?) a New HHS Secretary/FDA Commissionaire replaces who we have Now because the Person in the White House changes in 2020?

Will they take the Same approach that the Current players are Taking?

 

[ENAUD]

Because the FDA isn't a Static Entity. It changes as the HHS/FDA Leadership Changes. And as the Political Climate Changes.

And what the FDA has Done in the Past is No Indication of what they are Doing Now or in the Future. Good or Bad.

Don't get me Wrong. I have No Great Love for the FDA. Or in Any Way Shape or Form believe that the Primary Goal of the FDA is that PC Crap that they have in their "Mission Statement".

But the e-Cigarette/e-liquid Policy direction under current FDA Commissionaire is a Far Cry from what we saw under Hamburg or under Califf.

If we were having this Conversation back when Hamburg/Califf were running the FDA under HHS Secretary Seblius or Burwell's control, my views would be Vastly Different.

Which should give People something to Think About every now and again. What Happens if a New HHS Secretary/FDA Commissionaire replaces who we have Now because the Person in the White House changes in 2020?

Will they take the Same approach that the Current players are Taking?

As you previously stated, vaping as we know it is a dead man walking...

 

[ScottP]

Will they take the Same approach that the Current players are Taking?

I think that will depend a lot on how things are left. If the FDA leadership changes with the regs completed (good or bad) new leadership will probably leave it alone. If the regs are left in the current incomplete and unimplemented state, then it could end up drastically different (better or worse), depending on who is next.

 

[Vinnybagodoughnuts]

Here's my take on this. If a person needs to be told not to put a chainsaw in his mouth then you are not going to protect him/her from doing something dumb. My question is why should we protect people that dumb in the first place?Nature works just fine if it's left alone. Survival of the fittest is nature's way of eliminating idiots. I bet you have never seen a dumb Gazelle.

 

[zoiDman]

The Deeming Rule Set is Complete and Final. And the FDA has survived a Federal Lawsuit questioning many parts of their Authority to Implement them.

We got a Reprieve by some Compliance Dates being push out. But that was about it.

If HHS/FDA Leadership remained the same (or Similarly aligned) we might see a somewhat less Heavy Handed approach to the PMTA process. But there still is going to be a PMTA Process. And that is the paving stones that the Green Mile is made of.

But if the HHS/FDA Leadership swings back to more of a previous HHS/FDA approach, then it is pretty much "Game Over".

 

[Myk]

Because the FDA isn't a Static Entity. It changes as the HHS/FDA Leadership Changes. And as the Political Climate Changes.

And what the FDA has Done in the Past is No Indication of what they are Doing Now or in the Future. Good or Bad.

Don't get me Wrong. I have No Great Love for the FDA. Or in Any Way Shape or Form believe that the Primary Goal of the FDA is that PC Crap that they have in their "Mission Statement".

But the e-Cigarette/e-Liquid Policy direction under current FDA Commissionaire is a Far Cry from what we saw under Hamburg or under Califf.

If we were having this Conversation back when Hamburg/Califf were running the FDA under HHS Secretary Seblius or Burwell's control, my views would be Vastly Different.

Which should give People something to Think About every now and again. What Happens if/when(?) a New HHS Secretary/FDA Commissionaire replaces who we have Now because the Person in the White House changes in 2020?

Will they take the Same approach that the Current players are Taking?

What I see is under Califf vapers never heard a word from him, it was all Zeller telling the lies. Under Gottlieb the evil pro vaping head who's going to be a sell out to "Big Vapor", he's the new talking head telling us lies, Mitch is still there doing what he's always been doing. The corporate puppet masters are the same, only the head puppet changed.

Are we better off? Maybe. At least we're delayed. But the original FDA demands were so ludicrous I wouldn't be surprised if whatever happens wasn't the plan all along. Scare us with death and we'll be happy to get anything.

I don't think things change unless there's a shake up in the corporate world leaders. Seeing the same BS spewed in different countries about ecigs woke me up to how bad things really are.
Things change when someone with money sees a way to profit enough to bother allowing change.

 

[zoiDman]

... I bet you have never seen a dumb Gazelle.

I have.

But it was in the Mouth of a Lion at the time. So does that Still Count?

 

[zoiDman]

...

Are we better off? Maybe. At least we're delayed. But the original FDA demands were so ludicrous I wouldn't be surprised if whatever happens wasn't the plan all along. Scare us with death and we'll be happy to get anything.

...

Oh we are Much Better off than what it might have been. MUCH Better.

But when compared to the Basically Free Market You and I have Enjoyed, better off is akin to being Shot once in the Leg, given an Aspirin. and then told More is coming. Compared to being Shot 11 Times and being Left for Dead.

Time is our Greatest Ally right now.

The Longer we can go without the Axe Failing, the more People like the Royal College of Physicians can step forward and say that e-Cigarette use is Viable Harm Reduction over Smoking.

And Heavy Handed Regulations regarding e-Cigarette use does More Harm than Good for Public Health when considered on the Population Level.

Look at the CDC Report that just came out regarding the Historic Drop in Adult Smoking Rates for example. That Didn't happen without e-Cigarettes as an Alternative to smoking.

 

[englishmick]

I don't think things change unless there's a shake up in the corporate world leaders. Seeing the same BS spewed in different countries about ecigs woke me up to how bad things really are.

Things change when someone with money sees a way to profit enough to bother allowing change.

Watching governments around the world falling in line to crush vaping, to the benefit of several major corporate groups, gives a pretty clear example of the process in action. It's hard to see a way that corporations could make serious profits from vaping, compared with smoking and potential medical uses of nicotine.

The only light I see is that a few countries have remained open to vaping. The UK and Canada, maybe some other parts of Europe. Places where the election system isn't so heavily controlled by money. You have to believe that in those places smoking will continue to dwindle, and the vast cost of dealing with its consequences will go down too. That would make it harder to hold the anti-vaping line. That's what I hope anyway.

 

[englishmick]

Look at the CDC Report that just came out regarding the Historic Drop in Adult Smoking Rates for example. That Didn't happen without e-Cigarettes as an Alternative to smoking.

I read an article about that yesterday on my MSN feed. The article did say that vaping was likely to be one of the reasons for the drop.

Apparently there aren't any current numbers for adult use of vaping. The last available number for adults was 2016, where it was 3%. There was a number for use by school age kids, 13% I think. I forget what age range that covered, or whether that was regular use or one time use or whatever. Coupled with a drop in child smoking rates that was bigger than the drop in adult smoking rates.

 

[ScottP]

Apparently there aren't any current numbers for adult use of vaping. The last available number for adults was 2016, where it was 3%. There was a number for use by school age kids, 13% I think. I forget what age range that covered, or whether that was regular use or one time use or whatever. Coupled with a drop in child smoking rates that was bigger than the drop in adult smoking rates.

Yeah most of those "studies" in the US focus on teens, and only ask "have you ever tried an ecig?" and if so they get counted as a "user" even if they only took one puff off a borrowed ecig. They do that to inflate the numbers and make the "epidemic" seem larger than it is.

They don't want to track adult usage because that would most likely show a direct relationship between increases of vaping and decreases of smoking that they do NOT want to acknowledge exists.

 

[Vinnybagodoughnuts]

I have.

But it was in the Mouth of a Lion at the time. So does that Still Count?

Exactly......

 

[Beamslider]

I don't think the government wants to crush vaping. They just want it to be a closed pod type thing so their contributors can funnel cash to them and they can also tax the devil out of it.