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https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469
"
We acknowledge several limitations. We tested only for contamination of samples from cartridges and e-liquids, which may differ from other types of EC products, such as second-generation (pens), third-generation (tanks/MODs), and fourth-generation (pods) devices. We did not test multiple samples of the same product to assess variation among different batches or packages of the same product. In addition, we identified endotoxin and glucan in samples from cartridges and bottles of e-liquids, but we did not evaluate contamination of aerosols inhaled by users. Finally, we analyzed small numbers of products that were selected from popular brands. Future studies should include larger numbers of products, should test products that have been systematically sampled to be representative of all EC products sold in the United States, should perform repeat tests of individual products from different production batches to assess within-product variability, should conduct targeted testing to evaluate specific sources of contamination and variation among different types of EC products, and should measure endotoxin and glucan concentrations in aerosol samples.
In conclusion, our findings indicate that some popular EC brands and flavors may be contaminated with microbial toxins. Additional research is needed to confirm our findings and assess potential exposures and health effects in EC user"
"
We acknowledge several limitations. We tested only for contamination of samples from cartridges and e-liquids, which may differ from other types of EC products, such as second-generation (pens), third-generation (tanks/MODs), and fourth-generation (pods) devices. We did not test multiple samples of the same product to assess variation among different batches or packages of the same product. In addition, we identified endotoxin and glucan in samples from cartridges and bottles of e-liquids, but we did not evaluate contamination of aerosols inhaled by users. Finally, we analyzed small numbers of products that were selected from popular brands. Future studies should include larger numbers of products, should test products that have been systematically sampled to be representative of all EC products sold in the United States, should perform repeat tests of individual products from different production batches to assess within-product variability, should conduct targeted testing to evaluate specific sources of contamination and variation among different types of EC products, and should measure endotoxin and glucan concentrations in aerosol samples.
In conclusion, our findings indicate that some popular EC brands and flavors may be contaminated with microbial toxins. Additional research is needed to confirm our findings and assess potential exposures and health effects in EC user"
I have seen it in the UK papers today and I'd been aware of it for some time - the last time one of these papers came out condemning vaping they used old gear at power levels few would even consider using on those things - and hey guess what they got the results those financing the research wanted.
This time round I note two things
1) While the team did find the contaminants present in their samples, they did not test for how much of the contaminants were in aerosols actually inhaled by users.
2) Gregory Conley, president of the advocacy group the American Vaping Association reported that " the study looked at brands that were top-sellers in 2013, rather than more modern ones.”
Basically IMHO its a load of rowlocks but sadly these things get believed more than any good news about vaping.
Original post edited to take account of the question correctly raised by another Member @Jebbn - I thank him for his comments.
This time round I note two things
1) While the team did find the contaminants present in their samples, they did not test for how much of the contaminants were in aerosols actually inhaled by users.
2) Gregory Conley, president of the advocacy group the American Vaping Association reported that " the study looked at brands that were top-sellers in 2013, rather than more modern ones.”
Basically IMHO its a load of rowlocks but sadly these things get believed more than any good news about vaping.
Original post edited to take account of the question correctly raised by another Member @Jebbn - I thank him for his comments.
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I cant see any where in the methodology listed where they fired the devices at any temp, maybe Im reading it wrong or reading the wrong paper.
They may continue to post ridiculous things about vaping, trying to create a negative perception for it but some of the big players already know that this war is lost and pretty soon e-cigs/pods will replace cigarettes all around the world.
I've been at Vape Jam UK few weeks ago and Juul's manager during a conference told us they've made an agreement with Altria (Philip Morris) that pretty soon every pack of Altria's cigarettes will contain a message - "Switch to a healthier alternative - Vaping" and probably few words about JUUL. I believe it's a huge thing to achieve for the vaping community in general.
I've been at Vape Jam UK few weeks ago and Juul's manager during a conference told us they've made an agreement with Altria (Philip Morris) that pretty soon every pack of Altria's cigarettes will contain a message - "Switch to a healthier alternative - Vaping" and probably few words about JUUL. I believe it's a huge thing to achieve for the vaping community in general.
I really hope vaping does replace cigarettes completely. However, in the US, the FDA seems to be targeting pods exclusively for probable bans. So here it may just be normal mods/tanks that are left standing when the dust settles. Unless of course our teens switch to mods/tanks after the pod bans, then smoking will be the only winner.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...l-contaminants-found-in-popular-e-cigarettes/
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469
Sorry, village idiot here…
Is this the one about toxins and contaminants in liquids & cotton/wick? I think that's the one that popped up in the UK within the last few days. (So dirty vaping as opposed to overheated vaping).
https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469
Sorry, village idiot here…
Is this the one about toxins and contaminants in liquids & cotton/wick? I think that's the one that popped up in the UK within the last few days. (So dirty vaping as opposed to overheated vaping).
@My Batt Hurts - you are correct, and not the Village Idiot - I have edited my comments, thanks genuinely to Jebbn.
The thing they should be talking about is all the government-approved non-tobacco crap that they have been allowing for generations to be placed in cigarettes and inhaled.
There's no relative comparison. IDK, from reading that link (https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/news/p...l-contaminants-found-in-popular-e-cigarettes/), what the 'detectable levels' of endotoxin and glucan are in the normal food supply and various environments. What's the base line?
Tobacco is a 'natural product', processed and cured. And it's a good bet that the nic is extracted from the cheaper crappier tobaccos. Anyway, bacteria and mold. Yep. 'detectable'. Yep.
Now what about a serving of jerky? A lunch salad? Flour or rice?
And the article says:
The study itself (https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469) is more informative than the article, but still has no baseline, although it mentions tobacco smoke and cotton processing. So without a relative comparison, IDK what all this means in terms of impact/concern.
The thing with e-cigs is that we inhale them, not ingest them. So it's more about a comparison of "what if I was walking through a moldy field in the fall?" than it is about eating salad. Still....
IDK what to make of it. It concludes with "we need more testing" and that much I can agree with. It's basically a study that indicates following up with more studies is warranted.
(Still probably less than you get with smoking)
Tobacco is a 'natural product', processed and cured. And it's a good bet that the nic is extracted from the cheaper crappier tobaccos. Anyway, bacteria and mold. Yep. 'detectable'. Yep.
Now what about a serving of jerky? A lunch salad? Flour or rice?
And the article says:
The study itself (https://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/doi/10.1289/EHP3469) is more informative than the article, but still has no baseline, although it mentions tobacco smoke and cotton processing. So without a relative comparison, IDK what all this means in terms of impact/concern.
The thing with e-cigs is that we inhale them, not ingest them. So it's more about a comparison of "what if I was walking through a moldy field in the fall?" than it is about eating salad. Still....
IDK what to make of it. It concludes with "we need more testing" and that much I can agree with. It's basically a study that indicates following up with more studies is warranted.
(Still probably less than you get with smoking)
My local news was on a tangent in regards to vaping last night. They had some doctor on the newscast saying, "these guys in their bedrooms making juice absolutely know that their product attracts children".
And just now, the local news I am watching is reporting about the unknown dangers of vaping.
Frustrating.
And just now, the local news I am watching is reporting about the unknown dangers of vaping.
Frustrating.
Always be suspicious when you hear someone talking about "traces" and "detectable concentrations". Our ability to do analytic chemistry has gotten so good that we can now detect a few molecules of just about anything we're looking for, just about anywhere we look for it. But as always, the dose makes the poison, so statements such as the above quoted ones do cannot not imply a hazard of any kind unless the quantify the amounts found and then put those amounts in context. How much of the same stuff is in the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the beverages we drink? How much of it is in a cigarette?
Rayon is wick is the best wick!
Mind you I don't know how many of these chillum would be attracted to the unflavoured stuff I mix up in the bedroom!
Basically young folk are daft and will try anything - with me it was cigarettes ( at age 10 - they made me sick I hated the taste but made up my mind that if I worked at it I would get good at it - sadly I did!) for my son it was sniffing glue and for others drinking cheap fortified wine with cider til they couldn't walk. That's just the nature of the beast!
If they legislate against something folk will always find an alternative, and often a worse one.
Basically young folk are daft and will try anything - with me it was cigarettes ( at age 10 - they made me sick I hated the taste but made up my mind that if I worked at it I would get good at it - sadly I did!) for my son it was sniffing glue and for others drinking cheap fortified wine with cider til they couldn't walk. That's just the nature of the beast!
If they legislate against something folk will always find an alternative, and often a worse one.
I don't worry about toxins and bacteria in my vape. Most anything that's heated to 400F will kill bacteria. In food, all it takes is a temp between 145F and 160F.
At what temperatures should I cook food to kill bacteria? | Cooking & Health
If people are making juice in their bedrooms and selling it children, then shame on them.
The positive part of vaping is that I haven't smoked a single cigarette since late 2010. I haven't even been tempted.
At what temperatures should I cook food to kill bacteria? | Cooking & Health
If people are making juice in their bedrooms and selling it children, then shame on them.
The positive part of vaping is that I haven't smoked a single cigarette since late 2010. I haven't even been tempted.
I don't think it's about the live mold or bacteria per se (although I suppose that could be studied too).
It's about the TOXINS produced by the mold/bacteria BEFORE it is heated. Think of molds and bacteria as little chemical factories.
Same with cooking, if the bacteria produced the toxins...even if you heat the food later...the toxic compounds are still in there. That's why we throw food out before too many toxins are produced, and chill it to slow the action of the bacteria.
I'm sure you know this, Dave....don't understand your comment. Get more caffeine.
It's about the TOXINS produced by the mold/bacteria BEFORE it is heated. Think of molds and bacteria as little chemical factories.
Same with cooking, if the bacteria produced the toxins...even if you heat the food later...the toxic compounds are still in there. That's why we throw food out before too many toxins are produced, and chill it to slow the action of the bacteria.
I'm sure you know this, Dave....don't understand your comment. Get more caffeine.
I don't think it's about the live mold or bacteria per se (although I suppose that could be studied too).
It's about the TOXINS produced by the mold/bacteria BEFORE it is heated. Think of molds and bacteria as little chemical factories.
Same with cooking, if the bacteria produced the toxins...even if you heat the food later...the toxic compounds are still in there. That's why we throw food out before too many toxins are produced, and chill it to slow the action of the bacteria.
I'm sure you know this, Dave....don't understand your comment. Get more caffeine.
I was thinking more about the way I vape. My juice is generally 70PG/30VG and nic. I seldom vape flavors or anything more complex than PG/VG/Nic.
Articles such as these makes me more comfortable about toxins and bacteria in my vape.
https://www.ecigclick.co.uk/propylene-glycol-vapour-a-bacteria-killer/
THE BACTERICIDAL ACTION OF PROPYLENE GLYCOL VAPOR ON MICROORGANISMS SUSPENDED IN AIR. I
The reference I made would even include companies like Halo who we all know are not making eliquids in a bedroom. When a doctor can make broad sweeping statements with words like 'absolutely' it makes one wonder where the man got his education.
It reminds me, when a doctor graduates medical school at the bottom of their class they're still called a doctor.
Maybe the UK, but I highly doubt that will ever happen in countries like the USA and AUS where they are doing everything they possibly can to demonize it. The war in these places is just ramping up.
People who hate smoking will always demonize anything that resembles that which they hate. Vaping looks like smoking, so it must be as bad as cigarettes.
I remember once having to walk for 15 minutes at the airport to get outside for a smoke, only to have a grandma and her grandchildren make ugly faces at me for smoking more than 30 feet from the door on a windy day. She gathered the children under her overcoat and made a hateful face at me as they crossed the street and entered the airport. I suppose she would have viewed my vape the same way because it looks like smoke to the uninitiated.
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