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Need help from former MFS (MyFreedomSmokes) customers
Has any found a supplier or company that has tobacco e-juice like or very similar to MFS Turbosmog, Tall Paul, or Red Luck?
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Health Benefits of (Nicotine, PG, and VG)
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Is the verdict still out on nicotine and heart disease? I was under the impression that nicotine is entirely safe by e cigarette delivery provided you aren't taking down 5-10 ml of high strength liquid a day.
Also, what exactly is wrong with mesh wicks? Was there ever a sensible conclusion to that conversation? All I heard was irrational panic based on hearsay. It totally .... blocked any rational conclusion.
Also, what exactly is wrong with mesh wicks? Was there ever a sensible conclusion to that conversation? All I heard was irrational panic based on hearsay. It totally .... blocked any rational conclusion.
Oh nooooo, The British Medical Journal has BRAINWASHED meeeee!
What will they have me thinking next - that bashing my head repeatedly against a wall might lead to bruising....!
So crazy.
man you guys are freaks and I'm outta this thread Jack.....
(One even more bizarre thing is how many likes - literally in the dozens - my posts in this thread have received.....)
Ciao Belli
I cannot speak for the public at large, but as someone who has both ADHD and OCD, Nicotine is a very effective treatment for both, particularly ADHD when used in conjunction with caffeine.
Its effectiveness for me is not an opinion, it's a fact. That does not mean it works for everyone, but I suspect it will.
If you don't think (or at least allow for the possibility) that the medical community is affected by an anti-nicotine bias you are accepting information as objective that is not. Nicotine alone has never been linked to be many of the things you have cited in this post.
Calling people names on your way out of the thread...
Stay classy, Hotwire.
I have no idea what you were quoting because you didn't link it. I just know what you are quoting is what the ANTZ use and it is referencing cigarette smoking studies not studies that were done on nicotine alone. I do know a lot of what you were quoting can be gleaned from Wiki (I saw where you got the part about "other" addictions) which is not always the most reliable place to get information. They've tried to fix it but many of their moderators have their own agendas on many topics.
Odd how you said if someone provided evidence showing otherwise you would, "consider myself blown away and in fact to perhaps living in a parallel universe!"
Which I did and now you say you're out of the thread without addressing those.
I don't care if you want to get off nicotine, in fact I'm all for it. If you have no reason to use it there's no real use for it in your life.
But some of us have plenty of reason to use it and the benefits far outweigh the minor health risks because our other options carry major health risks.
Should someone take up a nicotine addiction as a preventative measure against Ulcerative Colitis, Parkinson's or Alzheimers? Definitely not. But someone who has those diseases may want to consider trying it as part of their treatment. A former smoker who notices those diseases after they quit when they had no real issues with them while smoking should definitely consider nicotine replacement.
Avoiding a minor addiction (akin to a caffeine addiction) is simply not worth the problems those diseases carry.
Here is a brief refutation of the hogwash being served up by Hotwire, so the presentation he was attempting to represent as knowledge does not stand unchallenged.
His premise is that there is that there is overwhelming evidence that nicotine alone is dangerous. He cites several sections from Wikipedia, that well known bastion of trusted medical knowledge....
This is not an attempt by me, your noble lion, to bash on Wiki. But you have to check your sources on Wikipedia. So I did just that...
His first study he cites is:
Here is the preamble to footnote 59
Here is the abstract from footnote 60
I am not going through an researching any more, that is enough for me to see he didn't bother to check anything.
He then finishes the post with this sanctimonious little jab at the "freaks":
His first two citations on Wikipedia are not valid to the argument he was trying to make. Namely that nicotine alone is harmful (which has never, ever been reliably established). He states that and then uses the results of AT LEAST two smoking studies (one from 2001, one from 2000) to buttress the claim. I only say at least two, because I only checked two.
EPIC FAILURE.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming. Please remember how this material was used to create an illusion of clear concrete evidence when none existed. This is how charlatans make a living, by pretending to be something they are not.
His premise is that there is that there is overwhelming evidence that nicotine alone is dangerous. He cites several sections from Wikipedia, that well known bastion of trusted medical knowledge....
This is not an attempt by me, your noble lion, to bash on Wiki. But you have to check your sources on Wikipedia. So I did just that...
His first study he cites is:
Here is the preamble to footnote 59
Here is the abstract from footnote 60
I am not going through an researching any more, that is enough for me to see he didn't bother to check anything.
He then finishes the post with this sanctimonious little jab at the "freaks":
His first two citations on Wikipedia are not valid to the argument he was trying to make. Namely that nicotine alone is harmful (which has never, ever been reliably established). He states that and then uses the results of AT LEAST two smoking studies (one from 2001, one from 2000) to buttress the claim. I only say at least two, because I only checked two.
EPIC FAILURE.
You may now return to your regularly scheduled programming. Please remember how this material was used to create an illusion of clear concrete evidence when none existed. This is how charlatans make a living, by pretending to be something they are not.
I have no idea why it is so hard for people to say maybe I didn't do enough research or some of the things I posted weren't true to fact. It always comes down to some form of their response being right, with name calling if they are pushed about the issue.
Imagine what would happen if aliens showed up on Earth with proof that they created life here as a highschool science project. People don't like to have their reality challenged.
Sometimes I am tired, too. Last night, I lacked the vigor. This afternoon, my OCD got the best of me, probably because I needed a vape (if you believe the unsubstantiated and wild health claim that nicotine provides beneficial treatment for OCD sufferers).
Sounds plausible. If cosmic radiation deformed the DNA structure of some micro organisms they were playing around with, which brought about humans in the evolutionary process, I'd have to give them an A+ as their teacher, but then who knows, humans could be seen as a disaster and failed project. Wonder if the light speed travelling aliens who created life here actually made it back to class yet.
This thread is suposed to be about the benefits of the ingredients in e-cigarettes.
Nicotine is in foods almost everyone eats. If it is bad for us, we're all screwed Vape or No-Vape.
The study that showed tumor size increase in mice included a direct injection and a patch. Administered in extremely high doses 3x per week. This is vastley different from low doses throughout the day.
PLOS ONE: Nicotine Promotes Tumor Growth and Metastasis in Mouse Models of Lung Cancer
Mouse Injection- 1mg/kg (increased tumer growth)
Mouse Patch- 25mg/kg (increased tumer growth more than injection)
Nicotine is in foods almost everyone eats. If it is bad for us, we're all screwed Vape or No-Vape.
The study that showed tumor size increase in mice included a direct injection and a patch. Administered in extremely high doses 3x per week. This is vastley different from low doses throughout the day.
PLOS ONE: Nicotine Promotes Tumor Growth and Metastasis in Mouse Models of Lung Cancer
Mouse Injection- 1mg/kg (increased tumer growth)
Mouse Patch- 25mg/kg (increased tumer growth more than injection)
Imagine if inhaling a cns stimulant and vassoconstrictor actually gave you arrythmia, higher or lower blood pressure? Not to mention GAD.
Nicotine can do this, it's just a fact.
I did missunderstand the wiki page, most of the health sutides were done with cigs, my apologies.
But pure nicotine does have potential health risks - just a fact.
Again from a govt website on just nicotine
Increases heart rate by around 10 to 20 beats per minute.
Increases blood pressure by 5 to 10 mmHg.
May cause sweating, nausea, and .........
Not hating on vaping and it's safer than smoking but not knowing these facts or obscuring them could lead someone with predisposition to heart problems or with an existing heart problem to have HEART PROBLEMS! And gastro-intestinal ones
Vaping gives me mild GAD at only 6mg, though I'm willing to accept that over how crappy smoking made me feel.
http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000953.htm
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Caffeine can be bad too. That does not negate the benefits it has. Everything has trade offs.
In spite of having panic attacks (linked to IBD) I still drink coffee even though both the panic attacks and the IBD would do better without it. Why? Because I also have migraines. I don't take ibuprofen for the migraines even though it is cheap, has minor side effects and it works for me because the side effects are very bad for IBD. You should see the list of side effects the drug I do take for migraines has. But those very dangerous side effects aren't a high risk for me just like nicotine's side effects aren't a high risk for me.
Ever go to a doctor and have your heart rate 80 instead of a normal 60 (my normal number)? I just did on Monday. Do you know what they said? Not a thing. 20bpm is not something that usually concerns doctors in my experience.
I've even had a 120 heart rate and they didn't bat an eye. They often ask me the usual, "do you have chest pains?" and I always answer, "Yes but I figure it's the panic attacks.", they don't care because it is something that goes along with panic attacks and I don't have other symptoms of heart problems.
With the panic, a fear of doctors and a normally low blood pressure, my BP has been all over the place including extremely high. Guess what they've said? Not a thing.
The sodium clean out stuff they gave me made me feel like I was dying, my normal BP of 117/70 was 190/100, it's not an issue, I just talked to my doctor about it. 5-10mmHg as a side effect of a drug is nothing unless you have a problem.
Nicotine is not bad for all GI issues. Just like someone shouldn't steer someone with high BP or heart problems to using nicotine you shouldn't steer someone with UC away from trying it.
I don't see anyone here doing the former, I do see you doing the later.
I was just telling someone about ecigs for her husband who has heart problems but won't quit smoking. She's an ANTZ and was throwing a fit about nicotine in them. I told her the truth, some people switch to vaping and keep nicotine because they like it, some keep nicotine for health reasons like I do, but someone like her husband would be best off without nicotine, but if it comes down to nicotine with smoke or nicotine with vapor the nicotine with vapor would probably be a better choice, only his doctor can answer that.
You need to look at the bigger picture rather than declaring something bad across the board.
I talk to my doctors when I'm there and I'm there a lot. If nicotine was a problem they would tell me, they sure didn't have a problem telling me when they thought I had Crohn's. In my picture nicotine is not bad.
I can see nictone giving you GAD, but have you ever tried 100% VG or 100% PG? My first go at ecigs was panic filled, I blamed nicotine and cut it out quickly but was no better. My second go I heard about PG sensitivity, tried my old ecigs with 0mg PG, instant panic. Got PG free juice and haven't had a problem since.
In spite of having panic attacks (linked to IBD) I still drink coffee even though both the panic attacks and the IBD would do better without it. Why? Because I also have migraines. I don't take ibuprofen for the migraines even though it is cheap, has minor side effects and it works for me because the side effects are very bad for IBD. You should see the list of side effects the drug I do take for migraines has. But those very dangerous side effects aren't a high risk for me just like nicotine's side effects aren't a high risk for me.
Ever go to a doctor and have your heart rate 80 instead of a normal 60 (my normal number)? I just did on Monday. Do you know what they said? Not a thing. 20bpm is not something that usually concerns doctors in my experience.
I've even had a 120 heart rate and they didn't bat an eye. They often ask me the usual, "do you have chest pains?" and I always answer, "Yes but I figure it's the panic attacks.", they don't care because it is something that goes along with panic attacks and I don't have other symptoms of heart problems.
With the panic, a fear of doctors and a normally low blood pressure, my BP has been all over the place including extremely high. Guess what they've said? Not a thing.
The sodium clean out stuff they gave me made me feel like I was dying, my normal BP of 117/70 was 190/100, it's not an issue, I just talked to my doctor about it. 5-10mmHg as a side effect of a drug is nothing unless you have a problem.
Nicotine is not bad for all GI issues. Just like someone shouldn't steer someone with high BP or heart problems to using nicotine you shouldn't steer someone with UC away from trying it.
I don't see anyone here doing the former, I do see you doing the later.
I was just telling someone about ecigs for her husband who has heart problems but won't quit smoking. She's an ANTZ and was throwing a fit about nicotine in them. I told her the truth, some people switch to vaping and keep nicotine because they like it, some keep nicotine for health reasons like I do, but someone like her husband would be best off without nicotine, but if it comes down to nicotine with smoke or nicotine with vapor the nicotine with vapor would probably be a better choice, only his doctor can answer that.
You need to look at the bigger picture rather than declaring something bad across the board.
I talk to my doctors when I'm there and I'm there a lot. If nicotine was a problem they would tell me, they sure didn't have a problem telling me when they thought I had Crohn's. In my picture nicotine is not bad.
I can see nictone giving you GAD, but have you ever tried 100% VG or 100% PG? My first go at ecigs was panic filled, I blamed nicotine and cut it out quickly but was no better. My second go I heard about PG sensitivity, tried my old ecigs with 0mg PG, instant panic. Got PG free juice and haven't had a problem since.
I'm keeping a safe distance from most of this thread. One thing that I just need to bring up:
The comparisons people make between nicotine and things like water or apple sauce is absurd. Yes, they can both kill you in huge amounts and won't in small amounts. That totally downplays the fundamental difference between sustinence and a psychoactive chemical... and it sounds silly to anyone with half a brain. Really??? Water and nicotine are like, pretty much the same sort of thing? If someone really wants to compare nicotine to another substance that has positive effects but is also deadly in large amounts, try tylenol. That will relieve your pain if you take enough, and kill you if you take a couple doses too many. If someone wants to compare nicotine to another substance that has positive effects but also had unforseen side effects, how about thalidomide? Thalidomide was a fantastic sedative, and worked great for morning sickness... and then they found out it causes severe birth defects.
A person can't just compare nicotine to any other thing that may kill you in excess and expect to be taken seriously.
EDIT: This is a more accurate comparison, made whilst I was typing:
Both have health/lifestyle benefits in small amounts (if you consider a caffeine buzz a benefit). Both can kill you in amounts that could be easily consumed. Neither are foods, and both are used in situations that aren't very dangerous (vaping, drinking coffee), and situations where they are (smoking, alcoholic energy drinks).
The comparisons people make between nicotine and things like water or apple sauce is absurd. Yes, they can both kill you in huge amounts and won't in small amounts. That totally downplays the fundamental difference between sustinence and a psychoactive chemical... and it sounds silly to anyone with half a brain. Really??? Water and nicotine are like, pretty much the same sort of thing? If someone really wants to compare nicotine to another substance that has positive effects but is also deadly in large amounts, try tylenol. That will relieve your pain if you take enough, and kill you if you take a couple doses too many. If someone wants to compare nicotine to another substance that has positive effects but also had unforseen side effects, how about thalidomide? Thalidomide was a fantastic sedative, and worked great for morning sickness... and then they found out it causes severe birth defects.
A person can't just compare nicotine to any other thing that may kill you in excess and expect to be taken seriously.
EDIT: This is a more accurate comparison, made whilst I was typing:
Both have health/lifestyle benefits in small amounts (if you consider a caffeine buzz a benefit). Both can kill you in amounts that could be easily consumed. Neither are foods, and both are used in situations that aren't very dangerous (vaping, drinking coffee), and situations where they are (smoking, alcoholic energy drinks).
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Myk, that's so subjective and full of holes I can't even.....
Just because you have panic attacks and your doctor doesn't bat an eyelid at 120bpm (OMG!) heartrate..... Mine would freak.
As for the caffeine comparison - exactly.
I never said anything other than it is not some wonder drug that cures / prevents Alzheimers and it DOES have potential health risks (more serious if predisposed to heart conditions or have pre-existing one....) that people SHOULD be aware of.
Period.
It ain't 100% harmless and the furor over me saying is bizarre.
Just because you have panic attacks and your doctor doesn't bat an eyelid at 120bpm (OMG!) heartrate..... Mine would freak.
As for the caffeine comparison - exactly.
I never said anything other than it is not some wonder drug that cures / prevents Alzheimers and it DOES have potential health risks (more serious if predisposed to heart conditions or have pre-existing one....) that people SHOULD be aware of.
Period.
It ain't 100% harmless and the furor over me saying is bizarre.
How about Thalidomide, another drug they can end up giving me for IBD. I'm not that worried about it since the bad side effects really don't play a part in my health picture.
But I have to disagree with Tylenol. It doesn't have any redeeming value compared to the risks.
It barely does anything for pain, any pain it does take care of is minor enough it could be ignored. I wanted to smack Gastro when they said no more Ibuprofen and I asked about migraines they said Tylenol. My GP at least had the sense to say, "Tylenol, but that's not going to do anything for a migraine." then we discussed real migraine options.
The reason Ibuprofen works is because it's an anti-inflammatory and migraines are thought to be inflammation. Tylenol is a minor pain blocker and fever reducer, pain is generally caused by inflammation not fever.
I've also had hospitals give it for severe concussions which it does nothing for.
Tylenol being famous is a perfect example of corporate pharmaceutical corruption controlling hospitals and doctors.
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