Health Benefits of (Nicotine, PG, and VG)

[Myk]

Myk, that's so subjective and full of holes I can't even.....

Just because you have panic attacks and your doctor doesn't bat an eyelid at 120bpm (OMG!) heartrate..... Mine would freak.

As for the caffeine comparison - exactly.

I never said anything other than it is not some wonder drug that cures / prevents Alzheimers and it DOES have potential health risks (more serious if predisposed to heart conditions or have pre-existing one....) that people SHOULD be aware of.

Period.

It ain't 100% harmless and the furor over me saying is bizarre.

If you want less subjective go respond to the links I posted. Otherwise you get my personal experience.

Perhaps the "furor" is because the heath risks of nicotine is not what the topic is about. Nobody has said it is without risk yet that's what you keep acting like has been said because the benefits have been pointed out.

If you have GAD yours really shouldn't freak about 120bpm. I kind of freaked when the ER nurse told me mine was 120bpm and said it was par for the course with panic.

 

[bazmonkey]

I agree with you on Tylenol: it's only done anything for me as a fever reducer. And yes, thalidomide may end up being useful as a medicine (scares the crap out of me, though).

My only point was that comparing nicotine to truly benign things like water is absurd. I think someone can make a strong case that the dangers of nicotine may be overplayed because of it's historical association with smoking, but the strength goes out the window once the case becomes comparing nicotine to something harmless.

 

[bazmonkey]

It ain't 100% harmless and the furor over me saying is bizarre.

The fervor is because you took smoking studies and used them as nicotine studies. You said a lot more besides that it's not harmless. I think everyone here agrees with that: it's toxicity alone is enough to show that.

And as I recall (I'm about to get off of work, can't double-check the thread), no one purported that it cures or prevents Alzheimer's. They said it helps, it has an effect. That's very possibly true.

Bottom line is that people around here are understandably more wary than normal about being fed FUD. You used sources inapprorpriately and they called you on it. Then you got defensive. Now we're here.

 

[Myk]

And yes, thalidomide may end up being useful as a medicine (scares the crap out of me, though).

Trust me, I freaked when I saw it listed. Then I remembered pregnancy isn't possible for a guy.

 

[jerzi]

I agree with you on Tylenol: it's only done anything for me as a fever reducer. And yes, thalidomide may end up being useful as a medicine (scares the crap out of me, though).

My only point was that comparing nicotine to truly benign things like water is absurd. I think someone can make a strong case that the dangers of nicotine may be overplayed because of it's historical association with smoking, but the strength goes out the window once the case becomes comparing nicotine to something harmless.

Lithium is naturally occuring in some water sources througout the world, not sure how you would call that benign. Lithium can be very toxic and also has an psychoactive effect. The element can affect kidney function and cause long-term health problems. Some countries want to add this to drinking water where it isn't naturally found in the water supply to reduce the risk of suicides/depression for the general population.

You want to compare chemically modified compounds to create a medication such as tylenol to naturally occuring ones such as nicotine and lithium? Now that's just silly and absurd.

 

[DC2]

My only point was that comparing nicotine to truly benign things like water is absurd. I think someone can make a strong case that the dangers of nicotine may be overplayed because of it's historical association with smoking, but the strength goes out the window once the case becomes comparing nicotine to something harmless.

The comparison is perfectly valid because everything is a poison depending on the dosage.
Just Google "water intoxication" to find out how drinking too much water will kill you just as dead as you'd like to be.

The dose makes the poison.
Always has, always will.


Edited to add this from the Wikipedia page on water intoxication...

Water, just like any other substance, can be considered a poison when over-consumed in a specific period of time.

 

[EddardinWinter]

About Nicotine:

Nicotine in e-cigarettes is not 'pure'. It is mixed into solutions and typical strengths are measured in mg/ml. Nicotine has to be extracted into something, so I don't think what you are describing exists. I have never heard of Nicotine being concentrated greater than 100 mg/ml for commercial use.

Is that substance (100 mg/ml) dangerous and must be handled with care? Absolutely. No one is denying that. Nor is anyone is stating that Nicotine is a 'wonder drug'.

What I am saying is that the ANTZ (see how the word is underlined? Hover your mouse pointer over it, and it will give you the acronym) have so demonized Nicotine that it will not be considered for what it is: A natural and organic drug that improves the quality of life for many people, with known health risks equivalent to caffeine. To describe nicotine's known risks as any greater than that is either disingenuous or ignorant.

Nicotine needs to be recognized for what it is. No more, no less.

My only point was that comparing nicotine to truly benign things like water is absurd. I think someone can make a strong case that the dangers of nicotine may be overplayed because of it's historical association with smoking, but the strength goes out the window once the case becomes comparing nicotine to something harmless.

I stand by the comparison involving Nicotine and Water.

 

[Myk]

About Nicotine:

Nicotine in e-cigarettes is not 'pure'. It is mixed into solutions and typical strengths are measured in mg/ml. Nicotine has to be extracted into something, so I don't think what you are describing exists. I have never heard of Nicotine being concentrated greater than 100 mg/ml for commercial use.

Is that substance (100 mg/ml) dangerous and must be handled with care? Absolutely. No one is denying that. Nor is anyone is stating that Nicotine is a 'wonder drug'.

What I am saying is that the ANTZ (see how the word is underlined? Hover your mouse pointer over it, and it will give you the acronym) have so demonized Nicotine that it will not be considered for what it is: A natural and organic drug that improves the quality of life for many people, with known health risks equivalent to caffeine. To describe nicotine's known risks as any greater than that is either disingenuous or ignorant.

Nicotine needs to be recognized for what it is. No more, no less.



I stand by the comparison involving Nicotine and Water.

I almost focused on that but I think they meant just nicotine without the cigarette.
If my math is right Black Leaf 40 was 400mg but that's not pharmaceutical grade.

I'm getting the idea that nicotine is bad for something Hotwire has so when "health benefits of nicotine" is heard it throws them for a loop because it's contrary to personal experience.

 

[EddardinWinter]

I almost focused on that but I think they meant just nicotine without the cigarette.
If my math is right Black Leaf 40 was 400mg but that's not pharmaceutical grade.

I'm getting the idea that nicotine is bad for something Hotwire has so when "health benefits of nicotine" is heard it throws them for a loop because it's contrary to personal experience.

Okay, maybe so.

Look, I appreciate his acknowledgement that his initial research was sloppy and misleading. I just want the guy to shake off what he has been told about nicotine and question the "conventional wisdom" of its utility and its dangers. The medical community has a serious problem with PC getting in the way of what simply works and does not. How else can Chantix be approved smoking cessation, and vaping not be a recognized harm reduction? It does not make sense, and this misinformation is deadly.

 

[DC2]

Words like "poison" and "drug" are meaningless (at best) when used out of context.
And they are words used by certain people with certain agendas to engender a feeling in the person who hears them.

The truth is that we are inhaling substance "x" and it has certain benefits and certain risks.
We could be inhaling substance "y" or substance "z" and they too would have certain benefits and certain risks.

Same goes for any substance.

That is being intellectually honest.

Whether or not substance "x' is a poison depends entirely on the dose.
Same goes for substance "y" or "z" or any other substance.

 

[slider]

Any other health benefits of PG? PG is an alcohol, that kills bacteria and viruses in aerosol form in as little as 1 part per 2,000,000. It is not harmful to others in the quantities exhaled in ecigarette vapor. People sensitive to PG (users) may have adverse reactions and may want to use VG instead, as posted previously in this thread.

Does anyone know about consuming vitamins, minerals and alkaloids in aerosol form... I've heard of vitamin e-liquid... I'm going to try deer antler e liquid (home made) in about a month. Can an eliquid be made with PG that is really good for us? Like a men's/woman's 1 a day viatmin? Other ideas?

 

[Morgythekilla]

I loved reading all of this information from different studies, I hope all of your sources are correct. We all obviously know that nicotine is a stimulant, which has benefits, awareness, pumping that heart when, oh it's not feeling up to it and letting you self regulate that dopamine transmitter, reward system. But like someone said, we may not want to be in complete control of our dopamine reward system, it keeps us bowing down to the addiction. Nicotine is a stimulant, so is coffee and energy drinks.. I am very addicted to caffeine and nicotine and I have to say that I wish I wasn't because I pretty much need 2-3 diet rockstars and half a pot to a pot of coffee a day to get my heart going and I wish my body was more calm and natural functioning. Like someone said, there are bad things about everything and it's all about balance. We vape for our health, we have removed the CM from our bodies, which was the most harmful things we were doing, pretty much suffocating ourselves and causing us to function on less oxygen then normal... So much stress on the heart. But like someone said with Bipolar, vaping helps them out in social situations, (glad your not on meds) and gives them that stimulation in their social parts of their brain. (Truth being, it's not the nic stimulation that helps, it's that little excretion of dopamine everytime you hit that addiction, which is your comfort zone and calms you). Better living through chemistry or not? I say not, but that's my choice.

 

[Morgythekilla]

OMG, seriously.. Water is a micro- nutrient and is the most essential mineral for all of life. Life is water and growth, never compare water to nicotine, that is outright ignorant. Water is the basis of all life..... Water intoxication, I wrote a blog on this because I was cleansing my body with 2 gallons of water a day. Yes, when you are drinking non-filtered water, there are many hard minerals left, like copper, zinc and fluoride, which will leave you with your mouth tasting like batteries and could cause heavy metal intoxication. If you go on a water cleanse, and one teaspoon of salt to your gallon of water because the only reason your brains drowns is because you have flushed out the appropriate amount of sodium for your neurons to fire down those transmitters and nylon sheath. YOu cannot compare nicotine to water, again, which is the basis of all life...

The comparison is perfectly valid because everything is a poison depending on the dosage.
Just Google "water intoxication" to find out how drinking too much water will kill you just as dead as you'd like to be.

The dose makes the poison.
Always has, always will.


Edited to add this from the Wikipedia page on water intoxication...

 

[Morgythekilla]

With my experience with panic attacks and chemistry... The only way to beat the panic is to live through it. It's to up your whole body to that level of panic and make it apart of you... If that makes any sense. Like when your adrenaline is released, use it. Work out, hard and use the panic to your benefit. It will eventually bring your whole body to a state where you control the adrenaline and not your fear, that sets it off. Pretty much live through the fear and pain of when it's happening, and beat it by working through it and using it as a stepping stone to a better, whole functioning body. Again, if that makes any sense.

Caffeine can be bad too. That does not negate the benefits it has. Everything has trade offs.
In spite of having panic attacks (linked to IBD) I still drink coffee even though both the panic attacks and the IBD would do better without it. Why? Because I also have migraines. I don't take ibuprofen for the migraines even though it is cheap, has minor side effects and it works for me because the side effects are very bad for IBD. You should see the list of side effects the drug I do take for migraines has. But those very dangerous side effects aren't a high risk for me just like nicotine's side effects aren't a high risk for me.

Ever go to a doctor and have your heart rate 80 instead of a normal 60 (my normal number)? I just did on Monday. Do you know what they said? Not a thing. 20bpm is not something that usually concerns doctors in my experience.
I've even had a 120 heart rate and they didn't bat an eye. They often ask me the usual, "do you have chest pains?" and I always answer, "Yes but I figure it's the panic attacks.", they don't care because it is something that goes along with panic attacks and I don't have other symptoms of heart problems.
With the panic, a fear of doctors and a normally low blood pressure, my BP has been all over the place including extremely high. Guess what they've said? Not a thing.
The sodium clean out stuff they gave me made me feel like I was dying, my normal BP of 117/70 was 190/100, it's not an issue, I just talked to my doctor about it. 5-10mmHg as a side effect of a drug is nothing unless you have a problem.

Nicotine is not bad for all GI issues. Just like someone shouldn't steer someone with high BP or heart problems to using nicotine you shouldn't steer someone with UC away from trying it.
I don't see anyone here doing the former, I do see you doing the later.

I was just telling someone about ecigs for her husband who has heart problems but won't quit smoking. She's an ANTZ and was throwing a fit about nicotine in them. I told her the truth, some people switch to vaping and keep nicotine because they like it, some keep nicotine for health reasons like I do, but someone like her husband would be best off without nicotine, but if it comes down to nicotine with smoke or nicotine with vapor the nicotine with vapor would probably be a better choice, only his doctor can answer that.

You need to look at the bigger picture rather than declaring something bad across the board.
I talk to my doctors when I'm there and I'm there a lot. If nicotine was a problem they would tell me, they sure didn't have a problem telling me when they thought I had Crohn's. In my picture nicotine is not bad.

I can see nictone giving you GAD, but have you ever tried 100% VG or 100% PG? My first go at ecigs was panic filled, I blamed nicotine and cut it out quickly but was no better. My second go I heard about PG sensitivity, tried my old ecigs with 0mg PG, instant panic. Got PG free juice and haven't had a problem since.

 

[jerzi]

OMG, seriously.. Water is a micro- nutrient and is the most essential mineral for all of life. Life is water and growth, never compare water to nicotine, that is outright ignorant. Water is the basis of all life..... Water intoxication, I wrote a blog on this because I was cleansing my body with 2 gallons of water a day. Yes, when you are drinking non-filtered water, there are many hard minerals left, like copper, zinc and fluoride, which will leave you with your mouth tasting like batteries and could cause heavy metal intoxication. If you go on a water cleanse, and one teaspoon of salt to your gallon of water because the only reason your brains drowns is because you have flushed out the appropriate amount of sodium for your neurons to fire down those transmitters and nylon sheath. YOu cannot compare nicotine to water, again, which is the basis of all life...

It wasn't being compared, it was the point that anything without moderation can be harmful, if you don't take the proper precautions.

This is what happens when people take things out of context.

 

[DC2]

OMG, seriously.. Water is a micro- nutrient and is the most essential mineral for all of life. Life is water and growth, never compare water to nicotine, that is outright ignorant. Water is the basis of all life..... Water intoxication, I wrote a blog on this because I was cleansing my body with 2 gallons of water a day. Yes, when you are drinking non-filtered water, there are many hard minerals left, like copper, zinc and fluoride, which will leave you with your mouth tasting like batteries and could cause heavy metal intoxication. If you go on a water cleanse, and one teaspoon of salt to your gallon of water because the only reason your brains drowns is because you have flushed out the appropriate amount of sodium for your neurons to fire down those transmitters and nylon sheath. YOu cannot compare nicotine to water, again, which is the basis of all life...

Whatever. If water makes you so unhappy then pick any other substance you want.
The point is that calling nicotine a "poison" is trick used to make us look like drug-crazed losers that will do anything to get a fix.

 

[Morgythekilla]

The point being that anything out of moderation and in excess can be harmful... But to use water as an example of consuming in excess... is not logical as it is an essential nutrient, the number one. You need water, along with 11 other essentials.. You do not need nicotine, caffeine, or any other drugs... to function healthily.

It wasn't being compared, it was the point that anything without moderation can be harmful, if you don't take the proper precautions.

This is what happens when people take things out of context.

 

[Morgythekilla]

Whatever. If water makes you so unhappy then pick any other substance you want.
The point is that calling nicotine a "poison" is trick used to make us look like drug-crazed losers that will do anything to get a fix.

Nicotine, and people who use, drug crazed losers? Think about how .... heads feel.. You could say the same thing about yerba mat, ginko, caffeine.. all stimulants. I really doubt that anyone really thinks that nic users are drug crazed losers.

 

[DC2]

Nicotine, and people who use, drug crazed losers? Think about how .... heads feel.. You could say the same thing about yerba mat, ginko, caffeine.. all stimulants. I really doubt that anyone really thinks that nic users are drug crazed losers.

Apparently you don't read the comments after most electronic cigarette articles.

 

[jerzi]

The point being that anything out of moderation and in excess can be harmful... But to use water as an example of consuming in excess... is not logical as it is an essential nutrient, the number one. You need water, along with 11 other essentials.. You do not need nicotine, caffeine, or any other drugs... to function healthily.

It is logical. It could kill you, even though it's primary use is to sustain life.

You are pretty much making my point, something so beneficial as water, could also put an end to your life.