Health Care Reform Bill VOTE NO!!!!

[Mr_Slippery]

OK, I need to get another thing straight.

You all want to trust the government with your health care, when this very same government is pitching tobacco cigarettes as "e-cig cessation devices"?
Sheesh!

Trust the government with your well being, but do so at your own peril.

The problem here people is cost. You take care of cost, most of the problems with access goes away.


Eliminate the AMA's limit on the number students alowed in accredited medical schools, and loosening the restrictions on state licenses for doctors.

More doctors = more competition = lower cost.

Nationalize the market, so that we can shop around for the best deal. Currently, you can only buy insurance available in your own state.

More choices = more competition = lower prices.

Limit the reward amounts OR Institute a loser pays approach in Malpractice lawsuits.
This will reduce insurance costs, and the cost of performing "defensive" medicine.
We want to encourage good lawsuits and limit the "junk ones

 

[Duckies]

Nationalize the market, so that we can shop around for the best deal. Currently, you can only buy insurance available in your own state.

More choices = more competition = lower prices.

Thank you for defending the national public option being proposed.

Limit the reward amounts OR Institute a loser pays approach in Malpractice lawsuits.
This will reduce insurance costs, and the cost of performing "defensive" medicine.
We want to encourage good lawsuits and limit the "junk ones

I am sickened that this isn't under discussion in committee. If it is and I am wrong, someone please correct me. It would make my day.

A single payer plan would eliminate this, but I am concerned that the private sector having a seat at the table has ruled this out.

 

[Mr_Slippery]

You misunderstand. By nationalizing the market, I mean the ability to purchase insurance across state lines.

 

[Mr_Slippery]

A single payer plan would eliminate this, but I am concerned that the private sector having a seat at the table has ruled this out.

Obama said recently he didn't support single payer. You know something we don't?

Of course he does , he's on the record earlier saying he supports it - even going so far as saying it will take 10-15 years to eliminate employer provided health care.

 

[tannerk]

...Whatever you just can't see the whole picture, and refuse to do so.

...we should in act the old 90% tax

...Do you make 1-3 million a year?

...Taking away will always make it worth more

...your really do some reading

WTF do you know about me? Ugh..? You think the world owes you something? You think you somehow entitled to what I have?

Let me tell you something slick.. 20 some years ago, my family and I escaped from USSR. From the place of tyranny, likes of which I hope you never know.

I came to this country with $400 in my pocket, not able to speak, no place to live and unemployed. I've worked 100 hours a week for two decades to have what I have. I've cleaned toilets & scrubbed dirty plates but I worked! What I have was EARNED by my blood, sweat and tears. So don't sit there and act like you know me.

PS .... and if you don't think "US is the best country in the world", you can get the ....... out!

 

[BARENETTED]

Paise,

My apologies if you misunderstood. I did not meant 'deaf, dumb and blind' in the literal sense of the words.

I really am sorry about your health problems, but you need to understand, this is not going to help you. I agree, we need reform - but this is not the answer to your problems, in fact, it will probably get worse.

 

[paise]

WTF do you know about me? Ugh..? You think the world owes you something? You think you somehow entitled to what I have?

Let me tell you something slick.. 20 some years ago, my family and I escaped from USSR. From the place of tyranny, likes of which I hope you never know.

I came to this country with $400 in my pocket, not able to speak, no place to live and unemployed. I've worked 100 hours a week for two decades to have what I have. I've cleaned toilets & scrubbed dirty plates but I worked! What I have was EARNED by my blood, sweat and tears. So don't sit there and act like you know me.

PS .... and if you don't think "US is the best country in the world", you can get the ....... out!

Tannerk: 100 hours a week equates to about 17 to 18 hours a day. At the time I was raising my younger brother putting him through school and raising my infant/toddler daughter at the same time I was working 2 & 3 jobs at a time with only about an hour's worth of sleep total for many years. I was able to sleep during my lunch hour at job #1 while laying on a couch in the ladies' bathroom and had friends who would stop by to make sure I was awake when the end of lunch buzzer rang.

I worked 14 to 16 hours shifts before leaving to pick up my brother and daughter then take them to the next sitter so I could head out to job #2, which had me working evenings until it was time to work the night shift as a barmaid where in one night (on a good night especially during billiard tournaments, I could earn more Thurs though Sunday than I made working a few days on overtime at my day job. I rarely seen my children (I consider my brother and my son) for more than mere moments to seconds while going to one job to the next. Don't come to me talking about working and how you did it all and that's why you have insurance.

I worked just as much if not more AND as a Native American Indian I have the horrid nightmare of my ancestors losing everything we hold dear including our language and many of our customs. My maternal great-grandfather would speak fluent Cherokee just as his late wife could speak fluent Arapaho but they didn't dare teach their children or grandchildren out of fear of persecution so I can't even speak my native tongue. At least you have that right, whether you took it or not is in your ballpark and if you didn't, you're the ..... in this conversation.

I would still be working if my body hadn't give out on me. My mind and heart and soul wants to work but as said before, the body just isn't capable of doing so.

Get your nose out out of the sky lest you drown if a slight rain shower comes your way.

 

[paise]

Paise,

My apologies if you misunderstood. I did not meant 'deaf, dumb and blind' in the literal sense of the words.

I really am sorry about your health problems, but you need to understand, this is not going to help you. I agree, we need reform - but this is not the answer to your problems, in fact, it will probably get worse.

Barnetted: I understand where you are coming from, truly I do; however, nothing plus nothing equals nothing. I can't keep affording the outrageous costs of paying into a premium service for prescription drugs when the companies continue to take my money yet I see nothing for it in return because my $$ amount goes above what they believe is "necessary."

Autoimmune diseases are nothing to play with. You have to constantly battle with it with the right regimen or there is noting left to do except write your will and then die.

It is important to know that I don't fear death. There are times when I welcome it; hwr, too many people depend on me so I can't give up even when I am feeling at my worst. But, one of these days no matter how much i want to fight, lupus and Sjogren's will win. I just hope it is long after my girls are settled in their careers, self-sufficient, and happy. Once that happens, I will be ready to let go.


Medicare and Medicaid is the only two things standing between me and the insurance companies as well as standing between me and immediate death. Medicaid doesn't really pay for anything but it does prevent Medicare from sticking me with bills it should be paying and it doesn't allow the Part D to cut off my prescriptions, all 28 that I take a day.

 

[tannerk]

Don't come to me talking about working and how you did it all and that's why you have insurance.

??? I wasn't talking to you or about you. I was responding to DaMulta's "spreading the wealth" and "entitlement".

My anguish IS NOT with YOU. I have nothing but deep sympathy for your unfortunate circumstance.

 

[Surf Monkey]

You all want to trust the government with your health care

No, we want to trust our doctors, hospitals and clinics with our health care by removing or limiting the influence of private, for profit insurers. No one is talking about a government takeover of the health care system.

 

[Duckies]

You misunderstand. By nationalizing the market, I mean the ability to purchase insurance across state lines.

I knew what you meant. I was just pointing out the irony.

Obama said recently he didn't support single payer. You know something we don't?

Of course he does , he's on the record earlier saying he supports it - even going so far as saying it will take 10-15 years to eliminate employer provided health care.

I know he doesn't. I do.

 

[Vicks Vap-oh-Yeah]

No, we want to trust our doctors, hospitals and clinics with our health care by removing or limiting the influence of private, for profit insurers. No one is talking about a government takeover of the health care system.

Surf - IF the government is going to throw money at it - they're going to have influence over it - period.
Which is exactly what Obama said when he was addressing the Bonus's/bailout $$ debacle earlier this year and the execs were whining about Washington sticking their noses in how they spent the funds.

Which means there will be another entity between your care, and your caregiver - Washington.

 

[Kate51]

Vicks, exactly right. Just getting a bill passed is no guarantee there won't be "alternative" methods and rules imposed by the Offices of _ _ _ ! Many Offices and Commissions will have input with this program, AFTER it is passed. There is no way to predict how the whole thing can and will be actually implemented...the old Congressional 'mindset' and "meaning of the law" things don't actually hold legal water. Then don't forget, the whole thing has to be funded. Look how the "projections" of cost over time were severely under-estimated for the Medicare/medicade/prescription programs. And how the Social Security Fund was ROBBED BLIND!! But instead of fixing the problems, what does our Congress do? Make political battle of it. Well, of course, getting re-elected is much better than taking care of our own people. So don't forget, it is all about PARTY, and I don't mean your GET WELL party, either, people.

 

[dEFinitionofEPIC]

Everybody check out Ryle's post in the other thread on this topic ---it's very eye opening...

 

[tannerk]

Everybody check out Ryle's post in the other thread on this topic ---it's very eye opening...

Post a link, please...

--- EDIT ---

Never mind, I found it....

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...other-side-health-care-reform.html#post490596

 

[harmony gardens]

I'm still stuck in the middle on this one,,, I don't trust the big corporation model of health care, and seeing what the FDA is doing to vaping, is giving me a creepy feeling about whether turning it over to the government is a good idea either.

A point to think about,,, insurance is NOT a good framework to use for health care. I was a business major in college,,, and we learned that insurance is a pooling of risk. If someone is buying insurance,,, they are paying according to the probability that something MAY occure. If someone is already sick,,, you can't insure them,,, the event has already occured. That's like going to an insurance company to ask for a policy after your house has had a fire. Worse yet,,, once the fire has occured,,, it's infinately more likely that the event occurs again.

Also,,, let's speak frankly about Medicare. When it was signed into law, it was a way for people to kick the can of caring for thier elederly parents down the road, to have the government pay for thier care, so thier life savings wouldn't be swollowed up due to expensive end of life care. Nobody wants to "pull the plug on Grandma",,, but what DO we do with her?? It's gonna have to be talked about,,, because it's costly.

Just tossing that out to the group,,, discuss away.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Surf - IF the government is going to throw money at it - they're going to have influence over it - period.

So? Shareholder profit is a major influence on health care right now. If those decisions are going to be made by someone, I'd rather it was the one that doesn't make a profit on me when I'm sick.

Which is exactly what Obama said when he was addressing the Bonus's/bailout $$ debacle earlier this year and the execs were whining about Washington sticking their noses in how they spent the funds.

And yet, the executive has had very little if any influence on where the bailout money was spent. Huh.

Which means there will be another entity between your care, and your caregiver - Washington.

If there's a public option you can choose whether you want a corporate executive or a government official between you and your health care. You're going to get one or the other. As I said before, I'd choose the one that doesn't stand to make a profit if I get sick.

 

[Surf Monkey]

Vicks, exactly right. Just getting a bill passed is no guarantee there won't be "alternative" methods and rules imposed by the Offices of _ _ _ !

You won't even take the time to read the actual legislation. Why should anyone take what you have to say about it's potential consequences seriously?

 

[Kate51]

You won't even take the time to read the actual legislation. Why should anyone take what you have to say about it's potential consequences seriously?

I guess you must have missed a word or two in my previous statements.
Let me sum them up for you:
1.You don't take my word for anything.
2.You have a question, you go ask your Respresentative from the House, who knows the answers. Or should, but apparently those folks are more interested in berating those who are strongly trying to get answers.
3.The actual legislation is posted in yet another of my previous posts, for you to go read it.
4.You really don't need to know if I have read it. The important thing is that you should read it, in order to frame potential questions.
5.The consequences are as yet unknown. Consequences happen after the fact, when we least expect them. Possible consequenses could happen in just the way I described them in a previous post.
6.Why should anyone believe what I said about the potential consequences?
That would depend on whether the potential consequences turned out to be the consequences. That is the beauty of the meaning of the word "potential".

I hope this has answered all of your previous questions and potential questions. Thank you for your keen interest in my potential knowledge.

 

[tannerk]

...Representative from the House, who knows the answers. Or should...

Kate, they havn't read the Bill. Even if they did, admittedly, one would need a team of attorneys to make sense if it all.

And yet some on this forum, want us to trust these goons with our lives and our well being.


YouTube - Why would I read health care bill John Conyers