Health First Wisconsin on the attack

[Stubby]

Health first Wisconsin is what SmokeFree Wisconsin has turned into. The latest blog on e-cigs with lots of twisted misinformation on e-cigs

http://healthfirstwi.blogspot.com/2012/02/e-hookah-coming-to-store-near-you.html

You can log on if you have a google account. No doubt they are going on the attack because of the upcoming bill that would exempt e-cigs from the current smoking ban.

 

[sparkyth67]

love the part where they admit to not knowing much about the ingredients so they must be harmful

 

[Petrodus]

The FDA could proclaim that e-cigs are now "FDA Approved" and all testings
revealed they are 100% Safe...The ANTIZ would just switch gears and proclaim
e-cigs are a "slippery slope" to smoking tobacco...So e-cigs should be banned
to "Save the Children"

vaping (the appearance of smoking) will never be a sociably accepted behavior...
At best, only tolerated.

 

[TinyTimberGal]

I looked through the offerings and there are no comments, 1 member, and no followers. I think commenting here would be like feeding the trolls.

 

[Cyatis]

This guy is brilliant.
http://healthfirstwi.blogspot.com/2012/02/e-hookah-coming-to-store-near-you.html

We learned today that 7-Eleven is partnering with a company called Xhale 02 to distribute e-Hookah electronic cigarette products in stores across the U.S.

While Wisconsin does not have any 7-Eleven stores, we can be assured that e-Hookah will be here soon.

Really how can you be positive of that, and is there any proof of that? Are you going to build me a 7-eleven in my neighborhood, tommorrow? Are you sure it wasn't already here? I think your not sure of much, in fact you can't even tell me if e-hookah is even bad for me.

We don’t know how e-Hookah will harm your health, and that’s a scary thing.

Are you also afraid of cracks in the sidewalk and ladybugs?

But it does contain glycerin.

So, does my asthma inhaler.

Do (you) live near a 7-Eleven?

I live in Wisconsin, can you answer that question?

They also confuse people who see someone smoking with an e-cigarette and decide it’s OK to light up.

Here is my ecig, I'm confused how you can confuse this for a cigarette. But lets consider all things and you DO see this as a cigarette replica. If I light up an actual cigarette, and you follow suit, in a non-smoking area, are you just as guilty as I am? Did that really justify you lighting up next to the non-smoking sign?

Have you bothered to ever think or attempt to research about anything you ever say, before you print it?



Please quit scaring the good people in Wisconsin, they really deserve better.

Seriously, if this is the best you can do, I'd highly suggest that NOBODY ever funds you or your organization, your to stupid to tell me about health care or handle money.

I really want to feed the trolls. Really I do. However, I will go roll around in the snow before I decide really what I want to do. I've already turned the heat down in my house today, but for some reason I still need to cool off.

It is 25 degrees outside today as I write this in Wausau.

Of course though what I'm saying here is truthful, the way I'm saying it is quite a bit in jest, because really people sometimes need a good laugh when dealing with these people. If
I do decide to post there, I'll try to be just as convincing, but attempt to be much nicer about it.

 

[john doe]

Face it, the original writer has no idea what they're talking about and that's what scares them. Funny thing is a lot of the stuff we supposedly don't know can be found with just a few minutes on GOOGLE. So until I see a well researched article on the subject I'll just consider this to be more fear mongering.

 

[MattZuke]

One has a 1:100,000 chance of meeting someone with TB in WI. Odds of meeting them in a hookah bar, and sharing a tip with them, and getting TB are approaching astronomical. It would be so much easier to send a post card to the 55 people with TB asking them to not share tips, straws, or food with other people.

Source CDC

 

[Cyatis]

Just don't put the writer who wrote the Health First paper in charge of that, and it might work.

 

[Vocalek]

I just could not resist leaving a comment:

As of December 1, 2009, the revised Virginia Clean Air Act required all restaurants and bars in the Commonwealth to go smoke-free. The Virginia State Health Department tried to pretend that the law prohibiting indoor smoking prevented the use of electronic smokefree-cigarettes and announced their intention to mis-enforce the law. Virginia citizens disagreed. State Delegate Christopher K. Peace asked the Attorney General's opinion. On April 27, 2010, AG Kenneth Cuccinelli published his response: "It is my opinion that using an e-cigarette does not fall within the definition of 'smoke' or 'smoking' for purposes of § 15.2-2820."

There has been no confusion among the non-smokers mistaking vapor for smoke. Their nose knows when it is smelling smoke--or not. And there has been no confusion among the smokers. They step outside to light up. One would hope that the citizens of Wisconsin are every bit as smart as the citizens in Virginia.

And one would also hope that the folks at Health First Wisconsin try to live up to the name of the organization. Smokers who can't give up using nicotine need less hazardous alternative sources. Otherwise, they will just keep smoking; and any organization that prefers that scenario is putting health last.

 

[Luisa]

Face it, the original writer has no idea what they're talking about and that's what scares them. Funny thing is a lot of the stuff we supposedly don't know can be found with just a few minutes on GOOGLE. So until I see a well researched article on the subject I'll just consider this to be more fear mongering.

Unfortunately fear mongering works.

 

[Cyatis]

Here was my real response:

Electronic cigarette smoking by the preponderance of the evidence available is at least 98% safer than smoking cigarettes. The nicotine in them though addictive, isn't the dangerous part of smoking as its on par with caffeine which is used widely. It is all of the added four thousand chemicals, and the process of burning them, that is highly dangerous for your health. Second hand smoke is dangerous for your health because they carry these chemicals in them. However the e-cigarette is a vapor, and there has been no evidence that this can harm a bystander as there is nothing in the vapor to harm a bystander with. The truth is that the e-cigarette is more effective for a person who wants to stop smoking than pharmaceutical products, with far less side effects, and a better success rate. Ironically, most of the side effects of using an electronic cigarette are the same ones people experience when they quit smoking.

People that use the electronic cigarette are a vast minority, even compared to smokers. I find it hypocritical that you say that the e-cigarette is responsible for leading people to smoke, when the vast majority of people who do use the e-cigarette got there from giving up smoking cigarettes in the first place. People started smoking because cigarettes are out there, and its really that simple. It is very hard to mistake an electronic cigarette from a real one upon inspection, and many of them do not even look like a cigarette at all. They do not even have to contain nicotine in them at all, if the user choose them not to. Propellyne Glycol and Glycerol are found in medical inhalers and many other pharmceutical products. People have been using these for years, and there is no proof these harm anyone.

People who are trying to do the right thing, and do something less harmful to themselves and others are really getting the raw end of this deal. All they get is big pharmaceutical companies that are worried about their ineffective cessation products going under, to spring into action to protect their profits.

By means of regulatory capture of the FDA, and funding health organizations to include electronic cigarettes into smoking bans, all that happens when it succeeds is that it pushs people who would like to give up cigarettes right back to them.

The big tobacco companies have very little to do with this, they really have no reason to get involved, because they know if the pharmaceutical companies are successful in getting rid of these products, most of those people will go right back to buying cigarettes. There are not enough people using the e-cigarette to affect the bottom line of big tobacco enough for them to even consider it a real threat at the present time. They figure it is a great diversion from people who would like to see smoking come to an end. They don't support the cause of quitting, and are eagerly awaiting for their lost customers to return.

The reason there are flavors available for electronic cigarettes isn't the fact they are being promoted to children like you fear. The reason is that once a person has quit smoking for a week or so, they get thier sense of taste and smell back. And tobacco does not taste nor smell good to the majority of people once that happens.

The only people hurt by legislation that includes the electronic cigarette in bans that make them unusable in public places, are the people trying to stop smoking, by using something that absolutely is safer than smoking. I support exempting the electronic cigarette from the statewide indoor smoking bans, its the right thing to do.

 

[Vocalek]

Went I went back to the site to reread it, I was struck by the closing paragraph of their little essay

Don’t let tobacco marketers fool you into thinking e-Hookah or other electronic cigarettes are “safe.” When it comes to e-cigarettes, what you don’t know can certainly hurt you.

and was impelled to leave another comment.

When it comes to e-cigarettes, what Health First Wisconsin doesn't know know can certainly hurt smokers. Smokers: don't let self-proclaimed experts like HFW fool you into thinking that it is better for you to keep inhaling smoke than to switch to a product that has not been proven "safe."

Remember the story about the two hikers being chased by a bear? One asks, "Do you think you can outrun a bear?" The other responds, "I don't have to outrun the bear--I only have to outrun you!"

Similarly, to have a beneficial effect, any alternative to smoking--whether it is an e-cigarette, chewing nicotine gum, or even chewing on a toothpick--does not need to be 100% safe. It only needs to be less hazardous than inhaling smoke.

If inhaling vapor was more hazardous than inhaling smoke, we would be seeing evidence of that in the nation's Emergency Rooms. If it equally hazardous to inhaling smoke, people would be seeing no improvements in their health status. The fact that I can now laugh out loud without going into an embarrassing fit of coughing is proof enough for me that my health has improved since I switched from inhaling smoke to inhaling vapor nearly 3 years ago. An objective measure of that improvement is my peak-flow meter readings before and after. I shudder to think what my lung health would be like now, if I had continued smoking.

 

[TennDave]

Good work!!
Seems that this Wisconsin health group is WAY BEHIND the times- I can't believe they haven't moved into this century, much less decade. Wasn't CASAA similar with Anti-smoking until e-Cigs and some of the other alternatives came along?
Isn't there anyway to "educate" these people and help the organization as a whole move on? I do see who thy support in their list of resources- The AHA, ALA, etc., etc...maybe they've already been brainwashed too far... I don't know- Just making some observations and speaking my mind with questions. I suppose there are other similar (other) state organizations like theirs.

 

[Vocalek]

Good work!!
Seems that this Wisconsin health group is WAY BEHIND the times- I can't believe they haven't moved into this century, much less decade. Wasn't CASAA similar with Anti-smoking until e-Cigs and some of the other alternatives came along?
Isn't there anyway to "educate" these people and help the organization as a whole move on? I do see who thy support in their list of resources- The AHA, ALA, etc., etc...maybe they've already been brainwashed too far... I don't know- Just making some observations and speaking my mind with questions. I suppose there are other similar (other) state organizations like theirs.

Not exactly. CASAA did not exist until the FDA decided to try to ban e-cigarettes. Those of us who had already used them to replace our smoked cigarettes were very frightened and even more outraged. Here they have been nagging us for decades to quit smoking; and when we finally do because we found something that actually worked (with no thanks to them for that), they want to BAN the products?

Then we learned how the "health" organizations and federal agencies had been lying about smokeless tobacco products being just as harmful as smoking. Pretty soon, we ended up forming our own consumer organization, right here on ECF, and instead of "E-cigarettes" in our organization's name, we decided to encompass any products that could be used for Tobacco Harm Reduction.

CASAA's full name is the Consumer Advocates for Smoke-free Alternatives Association.

 

[wfx]

One would hope that the citizens of Wisconsin are every bit as smart as the citizens in Virginia.

very nice. that will trigger the old 'cheddar head'. a little inter-state rivalry never hurt. here's to VA as the new legislative crucible. sorry CA, you had a good run. i wish.

 

[kristin]

Idiots. Guess they didn't notice yet the XHale and Blu brands of e-cigs in Walgreens here!

These are true ANTZ. Back when they were still "Smokefree Wisconsin" they tried to scare people about smoke-free tobacco products with all the lies about those - especially the gateway to smoking theory that has never been proven. Move over Chicken Little. They gleefully showed tobacco lozenges along side tic-tacs and conveniently ignored that Nicorette Mini Lozenges look EXACTLY the same and come in similar packaging that isn't even child-resistant like the tobacco lozenges have.

They are prohibitionists and that is probably why they changed their name - now they can go after other dangerous "substances" like sugar, too.

 

[kristin]

Just a note about hookah (I noticed a comment on the blog) that they do NOT burn tobacco either. A small bit of tobacco (25-30%) is mixed into a fruit mash (called shisha) with molasses and or honey, flavorings and glycerin - those last two ingredients sound familiar? The mash is warmed until a vapor or mist forms (most likely the glycerin forms the visible fog in modern hookah, but it is also from the cooled evaporation of the liquids in the fruit and molasses), which is then drawn through the water and into the mouth/lungs. The only true smoke seems to come from the burning coal (creating carbon monoxide exposure) used to heat the mash. If that was replaced by an electrical heating device, it'd be pretty much identical in health risks to using an e-cig with WTA liquid. It's akin to boiling a pot of jam with tobacco leaves and inhaling the cooled vapor (the water in the hookah cools it down) - which is nowhere hear the same as burning it.

So, the ANTZ are in complete denial about hookah safety, as well. If it looks like smoking....

Edited to add: I just want to make clear that I am not claiming above that I know for a fact that hookah vapor is safer than smoking or as safe as smokeless tobacco products such as snus or what we believe about e-cigarettes. I do not have enough evidence regarding the health effects of hookah use and neither do the ANTZ - yet they act like they do and make many unsubstantiated claims against it in the same way they do with all tobacco products and e-cigarettes. The important point is not making claims which have no clear, scientific backing. My opinion that hookah is most likely not as bad as cigarette smoke is based purely on my own tentative research into hookah and is my personal belief and not official policy of CASAA or ECF.

 

[Stubby]

They are prohibitionists and that is probably why they changed their name - now they can go after other dangerous "substances" like sugar, too.

Smokefree Wisconsin is still going, but much diminished. They are now after alcohol and bad foods and anything else that makes life..... worth getting up for. They have really turned into the 21st century Puritans. They did post the same piece on both the smokefree WI blog, which hasn't seen a new posting in many months, and there Facebook page.

http://smokefreewisconsin.blogspot.com/

SmokeFree Wisconsin | Facebook

You won't have any luck trying to post on the smokefree blog as it has to be approved by them, and they never post anything critical. They can't stop postings on there Facebook page but have been known to delete things in the past.

 

[Petrodus]

So, the ANTZ are in complete denial about hookah safety, as well.
If it looks like smoking....

ANTIZ would be against blowing warm breath through a straw
on a cold Wisconsin morning...It looks like smoking

 

[Vocalek]

A cautionary note:

The ANTZ often will use a reference to "smoking an e-cigarette". They use the word "smoking" on purpose, because they want to implant the message that there is no difference between smoke and vapor.

Please don't fall into their trap. Don't even THINK of the words "smoke" or "smoking" when you are using the noun "e-cigarette."

Structure the language in your letters and comments to avoid using the word "smoke" and to emphasize that these devices are, indeed, smokefree.

Example: "Use of a smokefree electronic cigarette does blah, blah...."

Instead of "Smoking an electronic cigarette does blah, blah ...."