So a bunch of complaints were called in to the Health Department.
Gee, wonder where those came from.
"Health Officials" bust vendors, promoters at NJ Vape Expo
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So a bunch of complaints were called in to the Health Department.
Gee, wonder where those came from.
I just finished Watching Part 1 & 2 of Phil's videos.
It is Clear that there was a Very Divergent Opinion of just what Was and Was Not supposed to be Allowed at this Show. And BOTH Sides say that they are Legally Justified in doing what they Did.
Guess we will have to wait for the Lawyers to Argue this one out in Court.
Something I did find Interesting was Phil's commentary at the 16:25 mark to the End of the 2nd Video. Because he is known more for being an Reviewer of e-Cigarette Products. And He Himself has stated before that he Tends to Refrain from issues such as How the e-Cigarette Market is Perceived or Advocacy in the videos that he does.
It is Clear that there was a Very Divergent Opinion of just what Was and Was Not supposed to be Allowed at this Show. And BOTH Sides say that they are Legally Justified in doing what they Did.
Guess we will have to wait for the Lawyers to Argue this one out in Court.
Something I did find Interesting was Phil's commentary at the 16:25 mark to the End of the 2nd Video. Because he is known more for being an Reviewer of e-Cigarette Products. And He Himself has stated before that he Tends to Refrain from issues such as How the e-Cigarette Market is Perceived or Advocacy in the videos that he does.
As the various regulations spread from state to state, we'll probably see more of this.I am from NJ. This whole story just saddens me ...
Unless, of course, that vape Conventions just become a thing of the past.
This could be a big moment in vaping history, and it should be.
And I don't think we'll hear the end of this for awhile.
EDIT: The first video by PBusardo is very good
EDIT: Haven't watched the second one yet
EDIT: If you can take the promoters at face value, I hope they follow through on suing
EDIT: They are going to pay everyone's fines, and they may very well win a lawsuit
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Our tax dollars at work...busting people vaping. In a small Arizona city, there were deadly accidents daily along a stretch of a particular highway known as "Blood Alley." Meanwhile, the police were busy with sting operations trying to catch bar owners and customers violating the new no smoking regulations. Yep...our tax dollars at work.
The people who don't like the idea of vaping have the big megaphone when it comes to lawmaking.
Some of the people who vape can be pretty stupid at times, apparently, and that's a tough way to walk into a fight that you hope to win. Then again, maybe they don't really care.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -- John Wayne
Some of the people who vape can be pretty stupid at times, apparently, and that's a tough way to walk into a fight that you hope to win. Then again, maybe they don't really care.
"Life is tough, but it's tougher if you're stupid." -- John Wayne
Finished watching videos. My Cliffs :
- Organizers claimed they had the ok from the health department for vaping to be allowed and they have it in writing. When Busardo asked for the written correspondence, the organizers backtracked and said actually the building owner was doing the correspondence.
- Organizers said they will pay the vendors fines.
- Organizers said that the health department was forced to act because they had fifteen or sixteen complaints, including ones about underage vaping and pregnant women being there. Later on in the interview though they claimed it was probably a set up by state senator Vitale.
- Vitale claimed they were warned numerous times not to go on with the show but they ignored the requests.
- Organizers claimed the venue does not fall under the clean air act because it's private property and in essence it's the same as a private residence. and challenged the community and advocacy groups to help them in fighting this.
- Organizers claimed they wanted to have the event in NJ because it's their home state and they wanted to set a precedent even though it would've been easier and cheaper to hold it a half hour away in Pa
- Busardo was not happy about the pole dancing and girls going around in bikinis. Also not happy about vendors like Sour Batch and Cloud Candy etc... because of the perception of marketing to kids.
- Busardo seemed skeptical about the organizers honesty in the interview and not too impressed by their organizational capabilities( my impression )
- Lots of unhappy vendors. Organizers are being ripped on social media by both attendees and vendors.
My impressions may or may not be accurate, if any one really cares they should watch themselves !
- Organizers claimed they had the ok from the health department for vaping to be allowed and they have it in writing. When Busardo asked for the written correspondence, the organizers backtracked and said actually the building owner was doing the correspondence.
- Organizers said they will pay the vendors fines.
- Organizers said that the health department was forced to act because they had fifteen or sixteen complaints, including ones about underage vaping and pregnant women being there. Later on in the interview though they claimed it was probably a set up by state senator Vitale.
- Vitale claimed they were warned numerous times not to go on with the show but they ignored the requests.
- Organizers claimed the venue does not fall under the clean air act because it's private property and in essence it's the same as a private residence. and challenged the community and advocacy groups to help them in fighting this.
- Organizers claimed they wanted to have the event in NJ because it's their home state and they wanted to set a precedent even though it would've been easier and cheaper to hold it a half hour away in Pa
- Busardo was not happy about the pole dancing and girls going around in bikinis. Also not happy about vendors like Sour Batch and Cloud Candy etc... because of the perception of marketing to kids.
- Busardo seemed skeptical about the organizers honesty in the interview and not too impressed by their organizational capabilities( my impression )
- Lots of unhappy vendors. Organizers are being ripped on social media by both attendees and vendors.
My impressions may or may not be accurate, if any one really cares they should watch themselves !
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So, there's the TPSAC meetings that have been occurring in recent months, and there's the FDA deeming which is coming out as final rule any day now, and there's let's say the birth of Jesus and the assassination of Kennedy. This event in the scheme of things would be like:
1. Birth of Jesus
2. Assassination of Kennedy
3. NJ Vape Expo political battle
84. FDA Deeming
96. TPSAC Meetings.
You'd have to be a vaper that is literally asleep at the wheel or leaning ANTZ (perhaps unknowingly) to not see this as the big deal that opposition is trying to make it be.
Watch the video and let me know if you conclude otherwise.
Busardo is significantly off in his judgments on what occurred / will occur.
For once I completely agree with your comment...
On this we we'll just agree to disagree.
1) He was in attendance
2) He likely deals with more to do with Vaping in a single day than most of us do in a month
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Life may be tougher when you're stupid, but you also make lifer tougher for the not so stupid...
--DC2
I would say 93% accurate.
I don't see organizers backtracking in way you are stating. I believe whatever documents Busardo was hoping to get with that question could and likely will be shared with him and it will because of what organizers do, even while it ought to be understood that legally the organizers of the event are not responsible for that building.
That the organizers will willingly pay fines is very significant deal. It appears on surface of - even they know what they did was wrong and thus know a fine must be paid. In reality, it is telling everyone attending, this baloney (for lack of a better word) is not on you and we will take that burden entirely on ourselves. Not only that, we will pay each fine with the stipulation that each will be grounds for a lawsuit and, we the organizers, planning on pushing hard on this aspect.
To not see Vitale's actions as plotting is, to me, to think our opposition has zero game plan in what they are up to in the fight against vaping. I'm not sure I could relate to such a person / vaper who denies this as a plausible plot against organizers, other than treating them like they are 4 years old. Here's a cookie, now go play.
Busardo is doing great journalism to raise the issue about perception of the things that could be seen as red flags to the uninitiated. He comes off as old fogie, at best, and off base as highlighting this as what is the noteworthy negative takeaway from this event. So far off base, I question his understanding of political commentary. Not for the first time.
Vendors / attendees are very understandably upset.
Again, any politically aware vaper that is more than 10% upset with organizers and less than 90% upset with Vitale / Dems is, IMO, very naive about what just occurred, and not sure if I'd want them on my side when a CTA comes up, as I wouldn't be confident they are actually a vaping enthusiast.
I didn't see it that way.
Yes, I saw it that way.
And I think they have grounds, and will win.
And that would be HUGE if it actually happens.
Not sure how sure I am it will happen though.
If this wasn't a plot to destroy the vaping convention, then those folks aren't as smart as I think.
And I know for sure they are at least as smart as I think they are.
New Jersey leads the nation in anti-vaping.
And they knew this event was coming.
They would be seriously remiss if they didn't plan any counter-actions.
And this one appears to have been planned well in advance.
Cool ! I have read enough of your posts to know what your position would be on any issue and also am fully aware of your m.o. I agree with a little bit of your conclusions and disagree with most ( as usual
). I am actually convinced that you believe in most of what you are saying, and you are not being disingenuous, which i don't find to be true of a couple of others who usually argue on the same side of issues with you ( i.e. all things vape and nicotine are excellent and every one involved in the industry is an upstanding individual, and every one who disagrees with me is an ANTZ. ) Preach on !
The organizers were willing to pay the fines when they thought there were only a handful of citations. Apparently the fines now total $50000...
This is a fascinating case, really, and I hope it finds it's way to the courts; because it's not just about vaping. It's about what members of an organization (remember, everyone's admission was for dues to a 'club'), and what members of the organization (club) can and can't do on private property (The venue wasn't a public facility. It was privately owned).
Interesting caricature.
I don't know any business (ever) where all participants were / are upstanding individuals.
I know it might seem like I use the ANTZ acronym lightly, but I actually use it with deliberation and care. IOW, I feel I use it sparingly and stipulate the concept routinely (i.e. not full blown ANTZ).
It'd be really cool if I were making the concept up and ANTZ didn't exist at all. I wanna live in that world.
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