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Here we go again with a proposed 70%to 95% tax on ecigs.....make yourself HEARD!!!

Discussion in 'SmokeStik' started by lorikay13, Mar 4, 2012.

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  1. lorikay13

    lorikay13 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Dec 13, 2009
    Oregon
    As always CASSA is on the job protecting our right to vape and bringing us vital info on how to do that. See the link below for all the address information to write or fax regarding this new tax bill proposed in Maryland. Thanks CASSA!


    CASAA.org
     
  2. CES

    CES optimistic cynic Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2010
    Birmingham, Al
    95% ?!?!?!?!?!!?!?!

    :facepalm: :mad:
     
  3. andyman97

    andyman97 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2011
    Upstate NY, USA
  4. andyman97

    andyman97 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2011
    Upstate NY, USA
    I just read both of the bills. There is no mention about electronic cigarettes but a proposed tax for smokeless tobacco products. Each product that will be taxed at the higher rate is mentioned and defined within the proposed bills. They do not mention or define electronic cigarettes or nicotine liquid for use in electronic cigarettes...

    Here are their definitions for proposed tax increases:

    1. IN THIS PARAGRAPH THE FOLLOWING WORDS 19 HAVE THE MEANINGS INDICATED. 20
    2. “CIGAR” MEANS A CYLINDRICAL ROLL OF CURED 21 TOBACCO.
    3. “CONVENTIONAL MOIST SNUFF SMOKELESS 1 TOBACCO” MEANS ANY FINELY CUT, GROUND, OR POWDERED TOBACCO THAT IS 2 NOT INTENDED TO BE SMOKED.
    4. “ROLL–YOUR–OWN TOBACCO” MEANS ANY 4 TOBACCO THAT IS SUITABLE AS TOBACCO FOR CONSUMERS:
    A. TO MAKE CIGARETTES OR CIGARS; OR
    B. TO SMOKE IN A PIPE.
    5. A. “SINGLE–DOSE SMOKELESS TOBACCO” 8 MEANS ANY FINELY CUT, GROUND, OR POWDERED TOBACCO THAT IS NOT INTENDED TO BE SMOKED AND IS DIVIDED BY THE MANUFACTURER INTO UNIFORM, INDIVIDUAL DOSE SERVINGS.
    B. “SINGLE–DOSE SMOKELESS TOBACCO” INCLUDES 12 SNUS AND LOZENGES.
    6. “SMALL–CIGAR CIGARETTE” MEANS:
    A. A SMALL, THIN CIGAR WITH THE APPROXIMATE DIMENSIONS OF A CIGARETTE; OR
    B. A CIGARETTE WRAPPED IN TOBACCO INSTEAD OF PAPER.


    Unless there is something bigger here that I am overlooking...
     
  5. CES

    CES optimistic cynic Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2010
    Birmingham, Al
    that e-cigs aren't included is excellent news! Thanks for looking through the bill in detail. It's still a stoopid proposal though!
     
  6. lorikay13

    lorikay13 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Dec 13, 2009
    Oregon
    Maybe the links no working because they figured out the same thing you did Andy and took it down???? Still....can't hurt to be vigilant. Thanks for the update.
     
  7. andyman97

    andyman97 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2011
    Upstate NY, USA
    There is still a call to action from CASAA because of these bills but I don't think CASAA is specific to electronic cigarettes. Check out their mission statemetnt:

    Our mission is to ensure the availability of effective, affordable and reduced harm alternatives to smoking by increasing public awareness and education; to encourage the testing and development of products to achieve acceptable safety standards and reasonable regulation; and to promote the benefits of reduced harm alternatives.

    They are trying to protect consumers' rights to using anything besides smoking (including smokeless tobacco). Yeah, I think these bills are strictly for smokeless tobacco and snus.
     
  8. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    CASAA - Wisconsin
    CASAA has a new web site and server so some old links may no longer work. Here is the new link to the Maryland CTA page: CTA Maryland

    We definitely are fighting this - there is no reason a smoke-free product that is up to 99% safer than smoking (just like e-cigarettes) should have to pay sin taxes. Additionally, many vapers find "something missing" with e-cigarettes alone and use safer smoke-free tobacco products in conjunction with vaping to keep from smoking. (My husband is one of these people!) So, many smoke-free tobacco laws that do not specify e-cigarettes CAN still directly effect many e-cigarette users - we still need member support on these for our fellow vapers who need smoke-free tobacco to also be effective, affordable and available!
     
  9. lorikay13

    lorikay13 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Dec 13, 2009
    Oregon
    Kristin...thank you so much for clarifying that! I am wondering if the fact that they DON'T include ecigs as smokeless tobacco might end up being a bad thing????? Cuz we already know we are classed as a tobacco product. So if we arn't smokeless......what are we? Is it even possible to get lucky enough....or work hard enough....to get a third classification?
     
  10. SuperSonic

    SuperSonic Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2012
    U.S.A.
    As usual, this so called "law" or better yet "legalized extortion" the way I see it, is in fact an infringement not only on consumer rights, but human rights. "They" (The one(s) who lobby, make decisions or influence decisions for direct or indirect personal profit, gain, advancement and/or re-election) just keep chipping away at the stone a little piece at a time... a little bit here, a little bit there so maybe no-one will notice until the full plan of action is in effect and it's too late to turn it around. It's basically attempting to turn a battleship around in a bathtub...

    Another invalid piece of BS legislation that's got Boston Tea Party written all over it!

    No wonder there is so much unrest in in particular places of the world, as the disease of unrest continues to spread.... There is no mystery as to why.... It's all being invoked - It's all premeditated, by the ones who claim they have the answers...

    Action - Reaction - Solution - All self contained in a nice little envelope.

    And next we'll all see an increase in our cable television bills, because the cost of advertising for the commercials that nobody watches has gone up 100 fold and they need to keep paying for something that nobody asked for or nobody even wanted in the first place! - They should designate specific channels for just this purpose (The commercial channel(s)) 24/7 of every and any commercials and make it a subscription channel. I wonder how many subscribers there would be...?

    Mobile phones... there's another beauty! - Instead of the carriers, local & state gov'ts charging us good hard earned money to carry these electronic tracking devices around - they should be paying us for the privilege of allowing them to track and eavesdrop on our phone conversations any time they want... even without us ever knowing about it... while continuing to encourage the masses to put all their most personal and private information up on some cloud and "share yourself with the world..." what a joke.

    These are the same rejects that are behind this bill and these are the same rejects that support this bill and ones like it.
    It's all good for them.....until it's done to them.

    I betcha if someone came up with a way to vape their mobile phone, after all what's the difference - it's an electronic device (sarcasm)... the rejects would be all over that as well figuring a way to implement the extortion.

    Rejects of the world unite - the can all put that in their battery and vape it!

    Well that's enough for this rant fest... this topic is way too stuffy for my personal taste. Gonna loosen my collar, breathe "freely" and go enjoy the rest of my fantastic day.

    *The above was not intended to invoke a debate or unrest.... just merely posted this as food for thought*

    Peace-
     
  11. SuperSonic

    SuperSonic Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2012
    U.S.A.
    As an afterthought.... just makes you wonder if this lil' piece of paper was signed in some secret back room in some abandon building in the middle of the desert at 15 seconds til expiration. That way nobody would be there to oppose it....

    Yeah.... they ain't that smart - or are the rejects just that stupid?

    Not worth the second thought..... they're just that stupid. (gavel pounded with the hammer) it's a done deal.... it's unanimous

    The rejects are really that stupid!

    Peace-
     
  12. kristin

    kristin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Aug 16, 2009
    CASAA - Wisconsin
    Keep in mind that the FDA has stated its intent to propose extending its regulatory authority under Chapter IX of the FD&C Act to include products such as e-cigarettes as a "tobacco product." The FDA has not done this yet, so e-cigarettes are still completely unregulated by the FDA.
     
  13. lorikay13

    lorikay13 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Dec 13, 2009
    Oregon
    um...wow. I really didn't know that. again...Thank You!

    so once they act on the proposal...sorry for my political ignorance.....who are they proposing to? And is there still a fight left to be had? What DOES CASAA think of a third category?

    since you posted this in a public place...you won't mind if I pass it along to our design team will you? RFLMAO......I KNOW it can be done.
     
  14. SuperSonic

    SuperSonic Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2012
    U.S.A.
    Go for Lori .... just make sure they spell my name correctly.. :headbang:

    Peace-
     
  15. SuperSonic

    SuperSonic Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2012
    U.S.A.
    Aside from the government and the private entities that are actually governed by members of the government or "shadow private equity investors" - there's a big difference - (notice the wording) - the actual intent of a true government (if there is such a thing) is supposed to be elected by the people for the the best interest of the people, representing the people.

    I know and understand how these entities can be confused for actually being a function of "government" but actually it always seems to prove itself to be not so. IE: The Federal Reserve - is NOT a government establishment but rather a private entity governed by private equity. The same is so for the IRS and I very much believe the FDA falls into this category as well, despite the perception of the masses not in the know.

    These entities are all outstanding magicians ... their slight of hand is impeccable and their intent is forthright ... the economic crisis of 2008+. What a perfect example of these conjurers at work performing their magic act in plain sight as they made all of "our" money disappear !! - It was there to begin with (or was it really there at all...?) If it was there to begin with.... where did it all go??? It had to go somewhere... At last I checked, it wasn't deposited into any of my bank accounts.....

    Anyway... my point... How in the name of anything holy can an entity (FDA) call a piece of plastic with a battery a tobacco product and maintain a straight face while doing so?

    Perhaps these mindless fools in the FDA are suffering with a sort of severe "dain bramage" ??

    What if the description of the "e-cigarette" was named something different... disassociated from the word cigarette (which it should be) and the devices were just simply called "vaporizers" or "atomizers" or battery sticks....

    If you really think about it.... labeling a small electronic, battery operated toy as tobacco is absolutely ridiculous!!!

    Another magic act by another greedy private equity group - just waiting for the crowd to bite on the slight of hand.... to make their illusion our reality.

    Chewing gum, band aides, patches, lollipops, and toothpicks.... why isn't the FDA all over these products to deem them as tobacco? - My thought is that the "e-cigarettes" <---- pardon the pun.... generate billions of dollars and can hypothetically be dominated by the FDA by insinuating that a piece of plastic and a battery constitute....a tobacco product.... LMFAO!

    Do you think one could get away with claiming every one of their friends as pets on their taxes? Or have their house claimed as a religious sanctuary and get the pope discount on their taxes...... Yeah... I didn't think so either...

    On that note (A Sharp Major) I will retire for the evening....

    Peace-
     
  16. CES

    CES optimistic cynic Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2010
    Birmingham, Al
    Actually SuperSonic- though it seems odd- it was a hard fought battle to get classification as a tobacco product. The FDA wanted to classify e-cigs and nicotine as a pharmeceutical drug delivery device. That result would have been a defacto ban until millions of dollars in testing could be completed. Because of that battle e-cigs don't currently fall into the FDA regulation scheme.

    A third category of reduced harm tobacco product is the goal- though the FDA doesn't want to do that either. They want the money that would come from clinical trials- and the organizations that receive money from BP are working like crazy to make e-cigs go away. The governments that say they hate smoking but are dependent on tobacco taxes want to keep the money flowing, so they don't want there to be an effective alternative to smoking.

    All that leads to the political battles on a state-by-state and city-by city basis. But it still beats the alternative, because e-cigs would not be available right now if they weren't classified as tobacco products.
     
  17. andyman97

    andyman97 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2011
    Upstate NY, USA
    Very good summary.
     
  18. lorikay13

    lorikay13 Supplier Associate ECF Veteran

    Dec 13, 2009
    Oregon
    Yes thank you CES...excellent!!!

    So what can we/people do about getting a third classification? Does CASAA have a game plan? Drafts of letters we can write and who to send them to?
     
  19. andyman97

    andyman97 Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 9, 2011
    Upstate NY, USA
    As with most things political, it can be difficult to be proactive, at least from my perspective. If they have a plan of action but haven't implemented anything yet, there really isn't anything to oppose, with the exception of the ridiculous bills that state lawmakers are introducing to regulate and tax smoke free tobacco products. Whenever you see these proposed bills that you don't agree with, call/write/fax/email the state representatives to provide your viewpoint. CASAA can assist, just got to the call to action pages for each of the states for information.

    When the FDA decides to propose something, that's the time to really act and contact your congressman to fight against the bill on your behalf. The more states that lose the battle to regulate these products, the more of a precedent there will be to oppose the FDA on arbitrary laws/bills.
     
  20. SuperSonic

    SuperSonic Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 1, 2012
    U.S.A.
    If this is so, about being classified as a tobacco product, that's quite interesting. A spider web of channels to walk through and ponder. But, I don't believe for a second that they (e-cigs - as they are called) would not be here if it wasn't for their classification.

    Money fixes everything in a politically driven society, sometimes for the better... sometimes for the worse. It all depends on which side of the line the bleacher you're sitting in is on.

    After all, I do remember a similar situation, in theory, not so long ago in which Bill Gates and crew were accused of putting the squeeze on competing rivals. But in the end, the rivals did find a way to make it to market. One of those rivals being Macintosh or better known today as Apple... and as we all know, even if you've been in solitary for a while.... the world runs on Microsoft, but Apple has also found a home in many of its followers.

    So, if I'm understanding this correctly.... in simplistic terms - because of a classification of these e-cigs as a nicotine dispenser (as nicotine is still not a tobacco product by definition) e-cigs are classified as tobacco...???

    hmmmm.... I have to laugh, because I find it funny how things can be manipulated in such a way where it still doesn't rationalize, to a rational mind. Nicotine can be administered with a simple $0.99 ball point pen casing and a pinwheel, -- -- you can smoke tobacco (if you choose to) with a foil gum wrapper and the fruit of your choice.... and I don't ever recall having to get a prescription filled to buy a pack a cigarettes... and on and on...

    But here's a thought. Nicotine is an additive, an option so to speak. Per say, what if the device was not designed around the additive, the optional, but rather marketed as an alternative to dissolving candy. So, instead of dissolving a lollipop in your mouth, you would breathe in the flavor of your favorite flavor(s) then put it away when finished.

    It could be marketed as "Expanding Your Sense of Taste".
    Hypothetical Marketing campaign for taste:

    (Announcer: enter Don LaFontaine)

    In a world... where your senses guide your way...

    Where every other sense you've ever owned has had their time in the limelight.... now its time for "Taste"
    "Taste" that forgotten sense... it's time for "Taste" to shine!

    From the makers of the other four senses comes the new and improved sense of "Taste" ... That's right, say it a few times. Feel the flavor explode in your mouth. It rolls right off your tongue. Speaking of rolling off your tongue... there no better way to wake up your taste buds than enjoying an all new Tasty Flavor Stick!

    Get yours today....

    (End of Hypothetical Marketing campaign for taste)

    Not all of these devices that all of these people use dispense nicotine. There are people who vape 0.00% nicotine with their flavoring.

    It is possible to have a PEZ dispenser deploy Vicodin as an alternative to the little PEZ candy, but yet a child can buy one at "the local drug store" !

    Anyway... the reality of it is a battle of who's got more financial backing to play this game to begin with, who the people behind the scenes pulling the strings are, who will stand for their cause through all the elements and never tire when the opponent has fallen off the grid...

    As far as this FDA thing trying to claim the idea of this device.... I remain unconvinced!

    Dig you in the next installment...

    Peace-
     
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