Hi! 2 months newbie here

[JW77]

Hello! I've started vaping about 2 months ago. About a few weeks before I bought my first device, I researched quite a lot of information about vaping, especially about battery safety, ohm's law, and atomizers. After gathering a decent amount of knowledge, I finally made the decision to buy a mechanical mod and an RDA with a set of batteries and other tools and supplies like a roll of coil, cottons, charger, and coil building kit.

Here is my setup:
Mod: Vape Werkstatt MMK ABS 24
RDA: Goon Black v1.5 + DocTips
Battery: Blackcell 40A (Rewrap of Brillipower, I suppose) and Sony VTC4
Coil: Ni80 24ga 2.5mm diameter in 6 wraps dual coil
Wick: Cotton Bacon

I feel satisfied for about a month. Tried a couple of alien clapton coils for an experiment to chase more cloud but I went back to regular dual coil setup (2.5mm, 6 wraps)

I switched to Anarchist Coil (24ga Ni80) recently, but I noticed that my mod is producing less cloud density. I'm trying to learn few tricks, but since I don't feel that I have enough clouds, it's harder for me to even blow simple 'O's. My setup is currently reading at around .12 - .14 ohm with 70/30 VG/PG juice ratio. Where can I go wrong with this setup? I've tried rebuilding my coils a few times and I feel like I've primed it quite well in low wattage and fixed some hot spots, but I can't seem to find the problem. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

 

[Letitia]

Welcome to ECF.
I'm not a mech vaper, but your ohms sound pretty low to me. Maybe @MacTechVpr has time to answer your questions.

 

[MacTechVpr]

Hello! I've started vaping about 2 months ago. About a few weeks before I bought my first device, I researched quite a lot of information about vaping, especially about battery safety, ohm's law, and atomizers. After gathering a decent amount of knowledge, I finally made the decision to buy a mechanical mod and an RDA with a set of batteries and other tools and supplies like a roll of coil, cottons, charger, and coil building kit.

Here is my setup:
Mod: Vape Werkstatt MMK ABS 24
RDA: Goon Black v1.5 + DocTips
Battery: Blackcell 40A (Rewrap of Brillipower, I suppose) and Sony VTC4
Coil: Ni80 24ga 2.5mm diameter in 6 wraps dual coil
Wick: Cotton Bacon

I feel satisfied for about a month. Tried a couple of alien clapton coils for an experiment to chase more cloud but I went back to regular dual coil setup (2.5mm, 6 wraps)

I switched to Anarchist Coil (24ga Ni80) recently, but I noticed that my mod is producing less cloud density. I'm trying to learn few tricks, but since I don't feel that I have enough clouds, it's harder for me to even blow simple 'O's. My setup is currently reading at around .12 - .14 ohm with 70/30 VG/PG juice ratio. Where can I go wrong with this setup? I've tried rebuilding my coils a few times and I feel like I've primed it quite well in low wattage and fixed some hot spots, but I can't seem to find the problem. Any suggestions? Thanks in advance!

Too much pwr for the surface area and wicking. How are you reading that res? Using Ni80 you should be @ ~0.1755Ω for 6over. But you're so hot almost 500mW/mm2 that you're mostly heating air at 100W+.

Have the answer for ya. But you'll need to first be able to wind a balanced tensioned microcoil to make these twisted lead parallels (or you'll go uncontrollably hot), and note the leads are twisted…

Twisted Lead Parallel

• MacTechVpr
• Nov 21, 2017
• 1
• tensioned microcoil twisted lead parallel

You need well distributed balanced and stable surface area to max density at any power level. You don't necessarily get good vaporization (density) by throwing low res and watts at it, as you have seen. The gospel I've been preaching here for 4 years. Those will see who can. And once you build some you will too (be able to identify those around you who are using strain). There are tells.

You can build good parallels with 24AWG but I suggest you build a TMC at a comfortable temp with 7/6 6-7 turns 22AWG KA1 at 2.778, 2.8, 2.9 or 3mm as a baseline to gauge proper performance of alternatives. Do absolutely ensure your batt's normative performance is 25A with these coils. You shouldn't need to go <.2Ω to improve on what you're getting tho (the diff is headroom, a safety factor). You'll still outclass any standard wind by maximizing surface output. Anyway, best rig you can pull inside a 10mm post spread, except one. But that'll have to be another day as I can't run down its orig lib. Search forum for my posts on t.m.c. (tensioned microcoils, parallels). Nudge me with any question. Glad to help or someone may kick in on one of those threads.

Good luck.

 

[MJCSD]

Hello and Welcome to ecf

 

[stols001]

Hello, welcome to ECF, not a mech user but seems like you are getting some useful answers, hope you enjoy your stay here.

Anna

 

[MacTechVpr]

Should'a said hi earlier @JW77 but had to cut and run. Hope you stick around and find what you're after. Meantime, welcome.

Good luck.

 

[jfcooley]

Just gonna say "Welcome" cause I'm not a mech guy.

 

[JW77]

Too much pwr for the surface area and wicking. How are you reading that res? Using Ni80 you should be @ ~0.1755Ω for 6over. But you're so hot almost 500mW/mm2 that you're mostly heating air at 100W+.

Have the answer for ya. But you'll need to first be able to wind a balanced tensioned microcoil to make these twisted lead parallels (or you'll go uncontrollably hot), and note the leads are twisted…

Twisted Lead Parallel

• MacTechVpr
• Nov 21, 2017
• 1
• tensioned microcoil twisted lead parallel

You need well distributed balanced and stable surface area to max density at any power level. You don't necessarily get good vaporization (density) by throwing low res and watts at it, as you have seen. The gospel I've been preaching here for 4 years. Those will see who can. And once you build some you will too (be able to identify those around you who are using strain). There are tells.

You can build good parallels with 24AWG but I suggest you build a TMC at a comfortable temp with 7/6 6-7 turns 22AWG KA1 at 2.778, 2.8, 2.9 or 3mm as a baseline to gauge proper performance of alternatives. Do absolutely ensure your batt's normative performance is 25A with these coils. You shouldn't need to go <.2Ω to improve on what you're getting tho (the diff is headroom, a safety factor). You'll still outclass any standard wind by maximizing surface output. Anyway, best rig you can pull inside a 10mm post spread, except one. But that'll have to be another day as I can't run down its orig lib. Search forum for my posts on t.m.c. (tensioned microcoils, parallels). Nudge me with any question. Glad to help or someone may kick in on one of those threads.

Good luck.

I totally have no idea what you're talking about. Hahaha. I did not expect such a detailed answer, but I'll look into every single thing that you've mentioned and learn more about TMCs. Thank you so much for your help!

 

[JW77]

I didn't expect to find these warm greetings from you guys! Thanks for the welcome and I'm looking forward to improve my knowledge and experience here at ECF!

 

[MacTechVpr]

I didn't expect to find these warm greetings from you guys! Thanks for the welcome and I'm looking forward to improve my knowledge and experience here at ECF!

One step at a time JW. Leti rang my bell and I noticed you might be right over the line of hazard with the batt's you got. We'd hate to see you have a bad time or a bad vape.

Nudge me anytime on any of the points I made. Start with a straight wire barometer that's within safety margins and I think you'll get there sooner than most. You might wanna poke thru stuff on Good morning everybody . I'm new and researching ,first mech / build…… where @bood and I have been having an exchange on builds in the end zone of 20Amps and parallels. Glad to help. But this really isn't a rebuilding forum.

Good luck.

 

[bood]

I m aboard -and as new as you if not more ..

'yes we can'.. @MacTechVpr came and rescued me on couple thing..best vape hero I know of so we're in good hands..

: so I Welcome you mate!
I hope you enjoy your experience here

on topic :
ehm..cant give a bag of help on your problem..MacTechVpr can.
I m using s.s. and ka1 coils with more then decent results.. i guess a right atomizer a good mod and top battery set, and a build of my taste ..and results in my case after 1-2 months are quite as expected ..I d say 'good' to me, my vaping style and needs


but 1 sure thing , 0.12 is a tad too low..be aware that a single 18650 with 0.12 is not safe............and in particular if you r pushing that button hitting that fire more lately , and longer , to reach more density in your vapes results may be not as expected

 

[BrotherBob]

. I'm trying to learn few tricks,

Welcome and glad you joined.
Building for tricks is great as long as you do it safely and don't offend. It's all about what works for you.
Might like to read:
10 of the Best Vaping Tricks: How To & Videos - Ecigclopedia

 

[djsvapour]

Something is very wrong here. It concerns me that your battery (the one that isn't the Sony) isn't good enough or safe anyway.
I edited my post about your build resistance being 'irresponsible' but I do think you are expecting too much from a simple mech and atomizer set-up. If you don't have enough cloud - do the sensible thing and buy a regulated mod with 2 or 3 batteries.

 

[bood]

Something is very wrong here. It concerns me that your battery (the one that isn't the Sony) isn't good enough or safe anyway.
I edited my post about your build resistance being 'irresponsible' but I do think you are expecting too much from a simple mech and atomizer set-up. If you don't have enough cloud - do the sensible thing and buy a regulated mod with 2 or 3 batteries.

while i agree on getting a regulated mod, I have to say that my mech mod with a 0.25 build is quite in line with the kind of clouds that I have seen going in some youtube competition/tricks videos , this may suggest something different is wrong in his setup..

 

[suprtrkr]

HI and welcome. @MacTechVpr has the right of it. Your coil surface is too hot. With a full charge battery, you're pumping 100+watts and on that coil you'll have a surface power of nearly 500mW/mm². I suspect you're toasting your wicks too, unless you're using ceramic or maybe stainless. No wick in the world is going to keep up with that; you'd need a pump. Mac is also right you're on the ragged edge of what a VTC4 will do, and far over where I'd take that re-wrap. For duals, let me suggest a pair of 9/8 wrap coils, same wire and mandrel. That will bring your wattage down to 70ish (and your battery loading to a far saner 17 Amps), as well as reducing surface power to 240mW/mm². If that's still not cloudy enough for you, a similar ohm build with 26ga wire, 6/5 wrap same mandrel, will heat things back up into the 450mW range. Or add a wrap, 7/6, for .3Ω, 59W and 330mW, which might offer better results.

Play with is a while, you'll get there.

 

[MacTechVpr]

@suprtrkr and all you great vapers out there have a super Thanksgiving.
Good luck.

 

[djsvapour]

I have to say that my mech mod with a 0.25 build is quite in line with the kind of clouds that I have seen going in some youtube competition/tricks videos, this may suggest something different is wrong in his setup..

I totally agree.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I totally have no idea what you're talking about. Hahaha. I did not expect such a detailed answer, but I'll look into every single thing that you've mentioned and learn more about TMCs. Thank you so much for your help!

Hope you're hangin in there JW. Shout at us if you need.

Good luck.

 

[Baditude]

Battery: Blackcell 40A (Rewrap of Brillipower, I suppose) and Sony VTC4
My setup is currently reading at around .12 - .14 ohm

I'm not a mech vaper, but your ohms sound pretty low to me.

Do absolutely ensure your batt's normative performance is 25A with these coils. You shouldn't need to go <.2Ω to improve on what you're getting tho (the diff is headroom, a safety factor).

1 sure thing , 0.12 is a tad too low..be aware that a single 18650 with 0.12 is not safe............and in particular if you r pushing that button hitting that fire more lately , and longer , to reach more density in your vapes results may be not as expected

Something is very wrong here. It concerns me that your battery (the one that isn't the Sony) isn't good enough or safe anyway.
I edited my post about your build resistance being 'irresponsible' but I do think you are expecting too much from a simple mech and atomizer set-up. If you don't have enough cloud - do the sensible thing and buy a regulated mod with 2 or 3 batteries.

I only use simple compressed coils, so I'll leave the more exotic builds to those who know more than me.

I do know a thing or two about batteries though. Use only authentic LG, Samsung, or Sony batteries from trusted suppliers, especially for sub-ohm vaping in a mechanical.

I don't know who "makes" Blackcell batteries, but I guarantee they are rewraps of who knows what supplier. Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery? I also guarantee they are not 40 amps. Mooch hasn't tested them so take that 40A with a small grain of salt. Even if they are by Brillipower, those are a lousy battery:

• Brillipower Green 40A 2600mAh 18650...an absurdly overrated, low grade, non-IMR battery
• Brillipower Pink 45A 2600mAh 18650...ludicrously overrated, lower grade, not IMR
• Brillipower Green 3100mAh 40A 18650...preposterously overrated, not IMR
• Brillipower Blue 3100mAh 50A 18650...grotesquely overrated by 250%, not IMR

Also take note that the Sony VTC4 is a tested 23 amp battery, not the 30 amp commonly advertised by most suppliers:

Sony VTC4 2000mAh 18650 Retest Results...a great 23A 2100mAh battery
​

Mooch is THE battery expert, and below are his battery recommendations with their tested specifications:

List of Battery Tests

I looked up your Vape Werkstatt MMK ABS 24 and it does not appear to have any ventilation holes to allow a venting battery to release its gas. Without proper ventilation, this in effect turns your mod into a pipe bomb should a battery go into failure.

A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod

• Covers the differences between a mechanical vs. regulated mod, essential safety accessories, optional safety accessories to add layers of safety to your mech, routine maintanance, use of proper batteries, proper ventilation, low resistance vaping, and faux hybrid mods.

 

[MacTechVpr]

I only use simple compressed coils, so I'll leave the more exotic builds to those who know more than me.

I do know a thing or two about batteries though. Use only authentic LG, Samsung, or Sony batteries from trusted suppliers, especially for sub-ohm vaping in a mechanical.

I don't know who "makes" Blackcell batteries, but I guarantee they are rewraps of who knows what supplier. Are You Using a Rewrap (Rebranded) Battery? I also guarantee they are not 40 amps. Mooch hasn't tested them so take that 40A with a small grain of salt. Even if they are by Brillipower, those are a lousy battery:

• Brillipower Green 40A 2600mAh 18650...an absurdly overrated, low grade, non-IMR battery
• Brillipower Pink 45A 2600mAh 18650...ludicrously overrated, lower grade, not IMR
• Brillipower Green 3100mAh 40A 18650...preposterously overrated, not IMR
• Brillipower Blue 3100mAh 50A 18650...grotesquely overrated by 250%, not IMR

Also take note that the Sony VTC4 is a tested 23 amp battery, not the 30 amp commonly advertised by most suppliers:

Sony VTC4 2000mAh 18650 Retest Results...a great 23A 2100mAh battery
​

Mooch is THE battery expert, and below are his battery recommendations with their tested specifications:

List of Battery Tests

I looked up your Vape Werkstatt MMK ABS 24 and it does not appear to have any ventilation holes to allow a venting battery to release its gas. Without proper ventilation, this in effect turns your mod into a pipe bomb should a battery go into failure.

A Beginner's Guide to Your First Mechanical Mod

• Covers the differences between a mechanical vs. regulated mod, essential safety accessories, optional safety accessories to add layers of safety to your mech, routine maintanance, use of proper batteries, proper ventilation, low resistance vaping, and faux hybrid mods.

Can I put an agree and like. Nice material. Looks like metal.

Good luck.