No, I signed up because this forum has been very informative and helpful. I am new to vaping and this has been my key source of information. With that said I posted this because I felt that I found some information that I had not seen shared on this forum, and to share my experience so far. If you reread my original post you should clearly see that I was seeking to be helpful. With that said I doubt I will return.
Hi, and some MSDS data on PG
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No, I signed up because this forum has been very informative and helpful. I am new to vaping and this has been my key source of information. With that said I posted this because I felt that I found some information that I had not seen shared on this forum, and to share my experience so far. If you reread my original post you should clearly see that I was seeking to be helpful. With that said I doubt I will return.
Well please do not feel as if we are attacking you for sharing the info that you found. I certainly was not. It is always good to share information here. This is how we are all able to learn
from this forum
OMG!!!! My asthma inhaler is gonna kill me!
JK. Sure would like to see what long term studies of inhaler users like me though. My 5 year old has been on them since she was 2.
JK. Sure would like to see what long term studies of inhaler users like me though. My 5 year old has been on them since she was 2.
Nomadman if your leaving this forum is for the wrong reasons. Your provided us with information you obtained and the members of this site is giving your other information that they will help you make a decision. That is the purpose of this site I thought. If you did not want to get feed back on the information why did you post. Happy vaping...
sorry if my question offended you, just seemed like an unusual way to make an introduction is all, kind of like, hi! vaping kills! lol....... if you want info you are in the right place. so let's start over... welcome
Welcome the OP to ECF!
NOW, can somebody PLEASE add some lorazapam to the ejuice that I vape?
50mg/hr of IV lorazapam would DEFINITELY give someone lactic acidosis (I don't care if there is PG or another type of dilutent).............you would certainly be in a comatose state, which would cause muscle breakdown (byproduct of this is lactic acidosis), which would then lead to rhabdo, in turn kidney failure. PG isn't causing the comatose state, but you better believe that lorazapam is!
50mg of IV lorazapam an hour..........i'm still sort of in shock. I'm surprised that this organism was still breathing. (and you need breathing to blow off the Co2 that accumulates from lactic acidosis/aka metabolic acidosos) Yes, breathing is the first compensatory mechanism to this condition.
ok, now please pass the "vapable" lorazapam, so that I can add it to some DIY
NOW, can somebody PLEASE add some lorazapam to the ejuice that I vape?
50mg/hr of IV lorazapam would DEFINITELY give someone lactic acidosis (I don't care if there is PG or another type of dilutent).............you would certainly be in a comatose state, which would cause muscle breakdown (byproduct of this is lactic acidosis), which would then lead to rhabdo, in turn kidney failure. PG isn't causing the comatose state, but you better believe that lorazapam is!
50mg of IV lorazapam an hour..........i'm still sort of in shock. I'm surprised that this organism was still breathing. (and you need breathing to blow off the Co2 that accumulates from lactic acidosis/aka metabolic acidosos) Yes, breathing is the first compensatory mechanism to this condition.
ok, now please pass the "vapable" lorazapam, so that I can add it to some DIY
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Have you never had a disagreeable word with a human?
As you state, ECF is informative and helpful. [40+ year cig habit gone for me over the past 15.5 months]
Welcome to ECF -- you'll end up loving it here.
Nicotine Polacrilex, Aspartame, Calcium Polycarbophil, Flavor, Magnesium Stearate, Mannitol, Potassium Bicarbonate, Sodium Alginate, Sodium Carbonate, Xanthan Gum. I have looked at studies over the years and these are as safe as they come.
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I totally agree with Niko . I think most of us are smart enough to know that the only truly safe thing to put in our lungs long term is air but vapor is way safer then cigarette smoke. Let me put it this way I would rather take a chance with something that might be proven dangerous in the future then stick with something that I know is dangerous and will kill me if I continue to use it. I know there might be risks but I'm OK with that because I know doing nothing and continuing to smoke is definitely going to kill me. Only you can decide if vaping is the right choice for you.
OP,
stick around the forums........some people come off a bit harsh here, but they honestly dont' mean to. You see, occasionally we get people that join the forums just to TROLL & post stuff like "vaping is bad", "PG is gonna kill you", blah, blah, blah. Please don't be offended by anyone's posts. It's human nature to defend what you believe in & I firmly believe that is what most of the people on this thread are doing.
Seriously though..............whoever is holding the vapable lorazapam..............pm me before it gets listed on the classys jk
stick around the forums........some people come off a bit harsh here, but they honestly dont' mean to. You see, occasionally we get people that join the forums just to TROLL & post stuff like "vaping is bad", "PG is gonna kill you", blah, blah, blah. Please don't be offended by anyone's posts. It's human nature to defend what you believe in & I firmly believe that is what most of the people on this thread are doing.
Seriously though..............whoever is holding the vapable lorazapam..............pm me before it gets listed on the classys
jkI have been vaping for about a month now and it has mostly been a good experience so far. The only side effects I am having is an increase in shortness of breath. I am sure it is from vaping because I know my body and I have been using nicotine lozenges for 4 years, only smoking analogs a week here and there, and the same thing happens after a few days of smoking tobacco.
I picked up the e cig because I thought that it would be a safe alternative ( at least no worse than the lozenges) to keep me off analogs for good.
I have read a lot of comments about how PG is safe. None of the comments were backed up with data or studies so I did some research and came to a different conclusion. According to my findings there is no scientific evidence that PG is safe. In fact, the evidence indicates that PG is indeed toxic and the prolonged exposure can cause the body harm.
I searched Google Scholar with the terms "propylene glycol" and "toxicity" and then "propylene glycol" and "lactic acidosis", and also had a look at the MSDS.
This is an excerpt from the MSDS :
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
The substance may be toxic to central nervous system (CNS). Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage.
Here is the link to the full MSDS
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927239
That makes to answer to the "Is PG bad for you?" question clear to me, yes PG is bad for you. I am pretty sure that vaping the stuff would fall under "repeated and prolonged exposure".
I also found a few peer-reviewed articles on Google Scholar indicating that PG can cause lactic acidosis.
Lactic acidosis can cause nausea, abdominal pain, anxiety, irregular heart rate, and tachycardia (panic attack anyone?) Source: Lactic Acidosis - Symptoms - Better Medicine
Links to a few of these articles are here ( these are from 1985 to 2005, so there is recent evidence to support this):
Propylene Glycol-Induced Lactic Acidosis in a Patient with Normal Renal Function: A Proposed Mechanism and Monitoring Recommendations
Cookies Required - CAB Direct
ingentaconnect Propylene Glycol as a Cause of Lactic Acidosis
I hope this post helps others who were looking for some straight answers such as myself. Just because someone with a vested interest, or someone who thinks they know a "fact" because they read it on a forum or wiki, says a product is safe does not make it so. For this reason I took the time to provide links to the information I presented.
I do have some VG juice on the way, but if the breathing issue keeps up I may just stick with the lozenges and use my e-cig when I really need to smoke (after a few beers
If your conclusion is that PG is bad for you. That is certainly OK with me. However, based on what you have stated, IMO, the facts do not support the conclusion. Firstly, I have been vaping primarily PG based e-liquids for 6 months now and I have never experienced SOB. And there are numerous other posts here that suggest many others have not experienced the SOB that you mention. But, most of us know, different chemicals affect different people differently. That you experience SOB after vaping may be something peculiar to your biology. Not unheard of - not questioned. But the leap to PG as the cause of the SOB does not seem justified by the facts presented. There are a number of other chemicals in most e-liquids, any of which might a causation factor for SOB (for your particular biology). But certainly your choice to try VG based e-liquids seems like a reasonable approach. I would suggest trying the very same e-liquid except varied only by the VG substitute for PG. That is, try to make all other chemicals in the mix the same except for VG/PG.
One of the facts that you quote is the sciencelab MSDS. In fact, in seems that this is primary to your conclusion. But, here is a listing of some other MSDS's on PG:
http://www.mono-propylene-glycol.com/upfiles/file/Propylene-Glycol-MSDS.pdf
http://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/19870.htm
http://msdssearch.dow.com/Published...ycol/pdfs/noreg/117-01515.pdf&fromPage=GetDoc
http://www.pestell.com/msds/Propylene Glycol.pdf
What one finds is not all MSDS's are made equal. And in fact, the MSDS's sound more like those drug warnings we hear or see all the time that give as possible side effect "and possibly death". That is, make sure you warn about any possible outcome - no matter how remote. For the MSDS that you reference it says "may be toxic". That is probably correct. It may be toxic. But I would suggest it usually is not. You might read the first MSDS that I list. It says
Please let us know the outcome of your VG experiment.
Welcome Nomadman. Sometimes things are said wrong and without smiles or confused looks being visable, we can all take things the wrong way. Just want to add to this discussion that I have had great sucess with mainly pg vapes, but mild issues with certain juices. Sometimes it's the flavoring, but more often it's the vg concentration being too high for me. That is not what most folks find, but that is what happens to me. If I thin it out (diy) to lessen the vg, I can still vape the juice without problems. I think you may have some juice that doesn't work with your body.Try some other juice, from a different company in a different concentration, just my opinion.
I understand what the MSDS says but I am quite sure it is referring to fumes from working the with liquid, not the vapor. I take this stance based on having taken O chem and an upper division chem class, along with currently doing some post grad environmental chem work. I guess I am just trained to seek
Will keep you posted on how VG goes.
i think when he originally posted he didn't have enough posts to post it in the health forum.
You will need more than just organic chemistry to understand the effects of pg on the human body, maybe a physiology class or two would help.
You will need more than just organic chemistry to understand the effects of pg on the human body, maybe a physiology class or two would help.
Sorry can't resist anymore. This thread in my opinion has gone on too long. Nomadman, thankyou greatly for providing information to us that we can look into and make a life decision on, much appreciated. However, I am truly aggravated that there is a level of defensiveness that has been started. Not, IMHO, what this forum was designed for. I agree with a previous poster in that if you search long enough you can find a study on just about anything written in "pro" and "con" terms (regardless of what fancy search engine you use). Chemicals that are not "safe" are strictly regulated by the FDA (laugh). Many of the FDA approved drugs on the market cause more sickness and death than the sickness they are treating. PG has been used in food products for a while as well as inhalers etc. Aspartame is a chain broken away from L-Aspartic acid, a naturally occuring amino acid. It has been a sweetener now for years and has been deemed safe by the FDA. But, now we are starting to see reports on the health problems that aspartame can cause in people, why, because it's in everything now. Funny thing is it causes more blood sugar related problems than Dextrose. And why does the FDA approve it, $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that's why. Sodium benzoate, a preservative added to food for a very long time now, also FDA approved, converts to Benzine when broken down by the body and is synthesized out by the liver. It's a shame the liver gets rid of it, we could use it to strip paint off of old furniture. The list of additives and preservatives and their possible dangers and side affects could go on forever. The key to most studies getting published and backed is whether there is money behind it. Remember cigarettes were safe when they were backed by an industry who was prone to make huge money (some of which paid off certain scientist to release positive studies). Then when the medical studies over 50 years and lots of people dying showed they weren't....ooops. Studies are also based on a select sample of test subjects not a general. Again thanks for the info, but I'll wait until concrete evidence comes out specifically based on the subject item and its specific application. Until then VAPE ON!!!!!!!!!!
On the other hand, organic chemistry is not harmful for understanding the effects of pg on the human body. Personally, I'll continue with the PG without much concern for adverse effect on me. But, concern is possibly justified for a person who has some adverse reaction to vaping. It is unimportant to me that everyone who tries vaping must like it. It may be that for this OP, vaping just doesn't work. That chemistry background might improve the chances of zeroing in on what, exactly, is causing the adverse effect for the OP. Hopefully he will try the VG experiment and gives us an objective report of it's outcome.
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