Hide yo Mod, hide yo eGO..and hide you 510 too, they harass'n errybody up in here!

[Tanks]

The thing is, they sell PVs that are IDENTICAL to e-cigs, not just identical looking I mean they ARE e-cigs, only these don't use normal cartos and stuff, they use something similar to a cartridge or carto that is designed to vaporize "plant matter".

Unfortunately, I'm dead serious; there is no difference between my e-cigs and my hand-held vaporizers (the kind you put "herbal remedies" in). Also, the vaporizers used to vape "herbs" were in existence long before e-cigs were available on the market (I wouldn't be surprised if the very first e-cig made in someone's garage was a modified version of a "herb" vaporizer).

I actually just saw a "herb" vaporizer that was eGo style the other day. Honestly, I hate the cops in my area (because of their ignorance and abuse of power) but I can understand WHY the cop was so "cautious" (I never said he was JUSTIFIED in doing what he did, just that I understand WHY he did it).

Our legal/Law Enforcement systems need complete over-hauls. There are FAR too many ignorant, stupid, self-righteous officers who are nothing but sociopaths with badges and uniforms who look at the average citizen as an enemy (after all, the only way the cops much loved illusion of power will come to an end is if average citizens take a stand (haven't you noticed how violent and coercive cops get when you call them out and/or record video of them breaking the law and/or violently, savagely beating a subdued "suspect" who is supposedly "innocent until proven guilty" (don't get me started on that BS - it's DEFINITELY "Guilty until proven innocent" - I know that from personal experience).

I started going off track because nothing gets my blood boiling like the crooked, corrupted, abusive, sociopathic law enforcement in America. American cops literally MURDER innocent people and animals (specifically, dogs) every day (of course, some police-caused deaths are justifiable. But, many are not and they are simply pushed under the rug by the "higher-ups" in order to protect their department. Also, anyone who speaks out against the police is silenced quickly - Dorner is a perfect example. His entire reason for going on a police killing spree was because he reported a fellow officer who was guilty of unjustified police brutality but the police chief protected the criminal officer and defamed Dorner to the point where even his family disowned him).

Now I'm really off-topic.. Moral of the story: Don't trust cops - no matter what they tell you; they're paid to be professional liars and they will do ANYTHING to get what they want (after all, they ARE above the law, aren't they?).

It's time citizens take a stand against the corruption throughout America's law enforcement agencies and court systems. We're paying Millions of dollars in taxes to support the overwhelming number of non-violent offenders who are being packed into our prisons, for no reason beyond having fun damaging their OWN bodies, forced to live along side murderers, rapists, serial killers and the hardest of the hardcore gangsters. Because of this our prisons are all well beyond maximum capacity.

I will NOT be surprised when one of us is arrested for "possession of narcotics paraphernalia", even though it's just an e-cig.

 

[Commie]

tanks" data-source="post: 9658927" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

I will NOT be surprised when one of us is arrested for "possession of narcotics paraphernalia", even though it's just an e-cig.

I would not be surprised either. Even though "possession of narcotics paraphernalia" is perfectly legal...

 

[ScottP]

After reading Tanks post I wish there was a dislike button. I agree with the first two paragraphs but after that the anti-police rant is way off base. Sure there are a few bad apples in the LEO barrel but most of them are just normal guys. Many of them got into police work to carry on a family tradition, others because they want to make a difference, and yes a few of them are drawn to the position of perceived power. To over generalize all of the nations Law Enforcement like that is no different from over generalized a group of people based on race, gender, religion, or sexual preference and is wrong to do in all cases. Judge a man by the content of his character, not by his skin, religion, or if he wears a badge or not.

 

[EddardinWinter]

After reading Tanks post I wish there was a dislike button. I agree with the first two paragraphs but after that the anti-police rant is way off base. Sure there are a few bad apples in the LEO barrel but most of them are just normal guys. Many of them got into police work to carry on a family tradition, others because they want to make a difference, and yes a few of them are drawn to the position of perceived power. To over generalize all of the nations Law Enforcement like that is no different from over generalized a group of people based on race, gender, religion, or sexual preference and is wrong to do in all cases. Judge a man by the content of his character, not by his skin, religion, or if he wears a badge or not.

I do not disagree with you fully, but your analogy is flawed.

No one chooses their race, or gender, and few get to truly choose their religion. Every LEO has made a choice to make that the line of work they do. With that choice comes elevated power over the citizenry. This power of the LEO is abused far too often, and that is a fact. This does not make all LEOs bad, it does make preparing for the bad ones a necessity for any citizen.

 

[ScottP]

I do not disagree with you fully, but your analogy is flawed.

No one chooses their race, or gender, and few get to truly choose their religion. Every LEO has made a choice to make that the line of work they do. With that choice comes elevated power over the citizenry. This power of the LEO is abused far too often, and that is a fact. This does not make all LEOs bad, it does make preparing for the bad ones a necessity for any citizen.

Everyone chooses their actions though. It is by theses actions that a person should be characterized. I do agree there are Ahole cops that abuse their power and they are the ones that end up on the news for that abuse so we don't get to see the good ones very often. I do feel the bad ones are in the minority.

I do also feel that few people give them the credit for restraint that the good ones exhibit. I mean think about their job. They have to deal with the low life scum of humanity on a daily basis. They see and handle the WORST humanity has to offer. I can only imagine how that would wear a person down over time making them jaded towards humanity as a whole. They have to interact with thieves, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and pedophiles. I am a cool headed rational person and I don't think I have what it takes to arrest a pedophile without beating the ever living $ out of him first. So when an officer pulls you over and seems a bit miffed at you and you are sitting there thinking "but I am a normal law abiding citizen why is he being this way", remember, you might be the ONLY decent person he will deal with all night.

 

[BadDaddy4007]

My take on this situation and this is just my own opinion, is that the officer was justifiable in his first impression, but defiantly lacking some better judgement in the latter half. Too many times have law officers been called to a scene where someone has "seen, heard or observed" what they consider offensive matters. Some are trained adequately, some fall asleep at the back of the classroom. But they still should have some respect for what they do not understand.
I've not had this situation arise for me yet but I do know it's coming. I for one am not going to carry printed sheets of paper, a card that says 'I'm a Vaper, not a smoker" or anything else that may explain what I perceive to be a right of my own. Let's face it, we are already second class citizens as we were once "smokers". I remember too many times the looks of disdain , horror and shock that I got when ever I tried to light up. So now when ever I start to vape in public, I take the time to inform my server, associate or who ever may be around of what I'm doing, what I'm using and any other question that that may have.
We, as Vapers, have a long road ahead of us. The general public doesn't know that we exist nor what we are doing. We have to take it upon ourselves to educate them ourselves, not from some poorly or misinformed news show or someone that has no idea of what a vaper is.
I ride a bike, so you can imagine the looks I get when I'm in my full leathers, with at least two devices on my person. But I try to inform not misjudge someone that doesn't know.
Hum, I just had a thought. Since they have a day for all kinds of things, Memorial day, Mothers Day, gay pride day, I wonder how we'd do with a Vapers Day?

 

[ScottP]

Hum, I just had a thought. Since they have a day for all kinds of things, Memorial day, Mothers Day, gay pride day, I wonder how we'd do with a Vapers Day?

They will create Vapers Day right after they create Smokers Day and Nazi Day. It will never happen. We just have to raise awareness the best we can everyday.

 

[Myk]

Tanks,
You are correct, I also saw the eGo ones. I also saw an asthma inhaler. Key words being designed for plant matter. I don't know what else is being vaped but if he thought it had anything to do with that stuff he needs to get sent back for some classes.

But cops do not work on, "innocent until proven guilty", that is for the courts to do. Cops work of a suspicion of guilt, their lives depend on it.

ScottP,
For every bad cop that makes it on the news there are many others on that force that have been covering up for him.
Every time a local cop gets caught for DUI the investigation turns up that they have been let off on DUI many times before. It wasn't until they did something that couldn't be ignored that they make the news.

Getting jaded does not excuse anything. If they can no longer deal with their job and want to be executioner it's time to find a new career.

 

[AgentAnia]

I'm late to this discussion, but here's how I would handle a situation similar to OP's:

The Ranger is an officer of the law. Act respectfully: You're respecting the badge, not necessarily the person. The only item I'd willing hand over to any law officer is a piece of identification. If he/she asked for anything else, I'd ask (respectfully) why. And explain (without handing if over) what it is and how it's used. If he/she insisted they needed to examine it because it might be drug-related, I'd insist (always respectfully!) that 1) they call in their supervisor to be present for any examination (which in most if not all jurisdictions they would be required to do) and 2) they conduct an on-the-spot drug test (I believe I'm correct that all National Park Rangers carry a drug kit as standard equipment). And I would have asked to have the original complaintant pointed out to me so that I could go and explain to that person what ecigs/PV's are, so they wouldn't embarass themselves in the future.

I've found in my (admittedly) few interactions with LEO's that behaving calmly and respectfully can usually diffuse belligerance. When it doesn't, stand firm and call in a superior.

 

[Tanks]

After reading Tanks post I wish there was a dislike button. I agree with the first two paragraphs but after that the anti-police rant is way off base. Sure there are a few bad apples in the LEO barrel but most of them are just normal guys. Many of them got into police work to carry on a family tradition, others because they want to make a difference, and yes a few of them are drawn to the position of perceived power. To over generalize all of the nations Law Enforcement like that is no different from over generalized a group of people based on race, gender, religion, or sexual preference and is wrong to do in all cases. Judge a man by the content of his character, not by his skin, religion, or if he wears a badge or not.

I don't think "over"generalizing LEO in the US is even remotely similar to generalizing based on race, gender, etc. We do not pay entire races/genders/etc to protect out families and the MAJORITY of entire races/genders/etc are non-violent - unlike LEO. Go to any big city and you will be able to find at least one example of unjustified police brutality within 24 hours.

In Northern Virginia, specifically, Fairfax County, 90%+ of LEO are power abusing tyrants. Also, from personal experience, there are MUCH more LEOs who are abusive, coercive, sociopaths than there are "good" cops. It is their JOB to be coercive and it is their JOB to use force when they BELIEVE it is necessary. The lives of citizens rests solely on the moral/ethical standards of a single individual or group of individuals, i.e., it's up to the cop, as an individual, to decide whether or not the use of force is appropriate.

I have a vast amount of experience dealing with police from the perspective of the victim AND the perspective as the "suspect" and, from both sides of the spectrum, the police officer's blatant disrespect for average citizens disgusts me.

I understand that many of you will disagree and that is fine by me. I happen to have a realistic view of LEOs while you have adopted a view of LEOs that would only be realistic if it was pre-1970.

PS: The overwhelming majority of police brutality is NOT reported and even when it is reported the higher-ups in the specific police department will do everything in their power to make sure it does not go public - if it does go public the Court/Legal system will make sure that the officer in question will only receive a slap on the wrist which does nothing but show other LEOs that they CAN break the law and GET AWAY WITH IT.

The MAJORITY of police, in this day-and-age, are crooked/abusive and the "good" "old-fashioned" LEOs who are good people trying to make a difference are the extreme minority. Also, the good cops are threatened by the majority (i.e., threatened by the "bad" cops) as an attempt to force them into submission, i.e., to keep them quiet and stop them from speaking out about the unjustified police brutality that they witness on a DAILY basis.

Everyone chooses their actions though. It is by theses actions that a person should be characterized. I do agree there are Ahole cops that abuse their power and they are the ones that end up on the news for that abuse so we don't get to see the good ones very often. I do feel the bad ones are in the minority.

I do also feel that few people give them the credit for restraint that the good ones exhibit. I mean think about their job. They have to deal with the low life scum of humanity on a daily basis. They see and handle the WORST humanity has to offer. I can only imagine how that would wear a person down over time making them jaded towards humanity as a whole. They have to interact with thieves, rapists, murderers, drug dealers, and pedophiles. I am a cool headed rational person and I don't think I have what it takes to arrest a pedophile without beating the ever living $ out of him first. So when an officer pulls you over and seems a bit miffed at you and you are sitting there thinking "but I am a normal law abiding citizen why is he being this way", remember, you might be the ONLY decent person he will deal with all night.

The "low-life scum of humanity" is no different than you or I. You don't know the circumstances which landed them in their situation so you cannot judge their "worth" (calling them low-life scum implies that their lives are somehow worth less than yours). Breaking laws laid out by average men over the life of the US does not make you less of a human nor does it devalue your life. Twisted morals like yours are the reason police get away with so much unjustified violence and convictions of innocent civilians.

Tanks,
You are correct, I also saw the eGo ones. I also saw an asthma inhaler. Key words being designed for plant matter. I don't know what else is being vaped but if he thought it had anything to do with that stuff he needs to get sent back for some classes.

But cops do not work on, "innocent until proven guilty", that is for the courts to do. Cops work of a suspicion of guilt, their lives depend on it.

ScottP,
For every bad cop that makes it on the news there are many others on that force that have been covering up for him.
Every time a local cop gets caught for DUI the investigation turns up that they have been let off on DUI many times before. It wasn't until they did something that couldn't be ignored that they make the news.

Getting jaded does not excuse anything. If they can no longer deal with their job and want to be executioner it's time to find a new career.

I agree, somewhat. Cops work on "Probable Cause for suspicion of guilt" which means they need a certain amount of evidence before they can arrest you. BUT, what qualifies as "probable cause" is completely up to the individual LEO. Ex., in Virginia, you are not allowed to be pulled over for minor offences like having an Air freshener hanging from your rear-view, yet I was pulled over for exactly that. Point being; though they have "guidelines" and a "rule book" when a LEO is in-field, the books go out the window and they feel as though they can do anything they want.


I'd like to point out that the way a LEO acts around you may be different than they act around me. I treat them respectfully but I do not respect them (I don't respect anyone until I feel they deserve my respect) and I think (but am not sure) that being so young (I'm almost 23) and being a person who stands strong in the face of unlawful/unjustifiable opposition, makes police mad because I don't bend over and suck their nightstick like every other person they decided to harass that day.

In my town police harass. They don't protect or serve the citizens, they protect and serve their own interests as well as the interests of their superiors.

This will be my last post because I caused this thread to begin drifting off-topic. My apologies to the OP.

 

[BigBaby]

I simply will not be handing over any device to any LEO.

"I am breaking no laws and I assure you this device is an electronic cigarette. Unless you are ordering me under threat of false arrest I am not willing to let you seize it for inspection. If you do I will file a formal complaint and may pursue legal action against you and the department."

Come on guys, cops can't just take your stuff for inspection or even verification out of ignorance if you are not doing something illegal. If you stand up for yourself and your rights most times they will back down. Their ignorance of a subject matter =/= probable cause.

 

[Ourobouros]

That is partly why I hesitate to vape in public, especially with bigger devices. More often than not people assume the worst, and that is unfortunate. Hopefully this will change, because I certainly hate getting the evil eye from everyone when I vape in public.

 

[Myk]

I simply will not be handing over any devise to any LEO.

"I am breaking no laws and I assure you this device is an electronic cigarette. Unless you are ordering me under threat of false arrest I am not willing to let you seize it for inspection. If you do I will file a formal complaint and may pursue legal action against you and the department."

Come on guys, cops can't just take your stuff for inspection or even verification out of ignorance if you are not doing something illegal. If you stand up for yourself and your rights most times they will back down. Their ignorance of a subject matter =/= probable cause.

Depending on what it is I can see taking that stance. Once I get it I certainly wouldn't hand over my Vamo so they can screw with my settings and pop my atty. If they want to look that takes eyes not hands.
Anything else I have (eGo-C and Vea) I'd let them touch until they hold the button down. If I had an eGo-C condom with me I'd even let them taste.

 

[Rubicon]

I just had to go to a county courtroom, had my zmax with protank on it, they gave me more grief over a maglight mini I had on my keys then they did about the mod. The officer did ask what if it was one of "those electronic smoking things" and I was on my way. The flash light they checked to see if it worked.

 

[BigBaby]

Depending on what it is I can see taking that stance. Once I get it I certainly wouldn't hand over my Vamo so they can screw with my settings and pop my atty. If they want to look that takes eyes not hands.
Anything else I have (eGo-C and Vea) I'd let them touch until they hold the button down. If I had an eGo-C condom with me I'd even let them taste.

Do it, stand up for yourself! I never even thought about the fact that they will probably push every button, monkey around with every setting, and probably take it apart. I will probably pull out a bottle with a label on it to show an officer, but other than that I am not giving them anything.

 

[BigBaby]

I had almost forgotten about it, but I got stopped on my motorcycle for speeding about a month ago. I vaped away on my provari sitting there on my bike while he ran my information and everything. He didn't even ask what it was even though I know he saw that it was not a cigarette. He was a younger guy and a very nice officer too, so I suspect he had some knowledge of e-cigs.

 

[ScottP]

I don't think "over"generalizing LEO in the US is even remotely similar to generalizing based on race, gender, etc. We do not pay entire races/genders/etc to protect out families and the MAJORITY of entire races/genders/etc are non-violent - unlike LEO. Go to any big city and you will be able to find at least one example of unjustified police brutality within 24 hours.

Ok maybe the comparison was a bit unfair, but I live in Houston. I'd say that is a pretty big city. We do not have that kind of "unjustified police brutality" as you describe. It happens but it happens rarely, not daily.

In Northern Virginia, specifically, Fairfax County, 90%+ of LEO are power abusing tyrants. Also, from personal experience, there are MUCH more LEOs who are abusive, coercive, sociopaths than there are "good" cops. It is their JOB to be coercive and it is their JOB to use force when they BELIEVE it is necessary. The lives of citizens rests solely on the moral/ethical standards of a single individual or group of individuals, i.e., it's up to the cop, as an individual, to decide whether or not the use of force is appropriate.

I have a vast amount of experience dealing with police from the perspective of the victim AND the perspective as the "suspect" and, from both sides of the spectrum, the police officer's blatant disrespect for average citizens disgusts me.

I understand that many of you will disagree and that is fine by me. I happen to have a realistic view of LEOs while you have adopted a view of LEOs that would only be realistic if it was pre-1970.

The MAJORITY of police, in this day-and-age, are crooked/abusive and the "good" "old-fashioned" LEOs who are good people trying to make a difference are the extreme minority. Also, the good cops are threatened by the majority (i.e., threatened by the "bad" cops) as an attempt to force them into submission, i.e., to keep them quiet and stop them from speaking out about the unjustified police brutality that they witness on a DAILY basis.

If you are having so much "experience dealing with police" could it be that you might be doing something wrong? The average person never has dealings with the police beyond getting pulled over for speeding or not wearing a seat belt or reporting a crime. If you have a problem with police once or twice beyond that it could be an anomaly. However, in my experience someone that is always getting in trouble usually is doing something they shouldn't. Now I do not know you, your situation, or the specific area in which you live. If it really is as bad as you say and you really are innocent, then call internal Affairs or the FBI to get them to look into the corruption

The "low-life scum of humanity" is no different than you or I. You don't know the circumstances which landed them in their situation so you cannot judge their "worth" (calling them low-life scum implies that their lives are somehow worth less than yours). Breaking laws laid out by average men over the life of the US does not make you less of a human nor does it devalue your life. Twisted morals like yours are the reason police get away with so much unjustified violence and convictions of innocent civilians.

Rapists, Pedophiles, Murderers and Thieves may be no different that you, and that could be a problem but they are completely different from me. What circumstance makes a pedophile anything BUT the worst scum in the universe? So you think Jeffrey Dahmers life was as valuable as Ghandi or Mother Theresa?!?!...and >I< am the one with "twisted morals?!?!

Oh one more thing...IBTL...because it's coming I'm sure.

 

[Myk]

I had almost forgotten about it, but I got stopped on my motorcycle for speeding about a month ago. I vaped away on my provari sitting there on my bike while he ran my information and everything. He didn't even ask what it was even though I know he saw that it was not a cigarette. He was a younger guy and a very nice officer too, so I suspect he had some knowledge of e-cigs.

Super Bowl of 2009 there was a cop from my town at the party. I showed him my RN4072 and asked if he thought I'd get any hassle and he didn't. My nephew is also a cop and he doesn't care about much of anything unless you're being a jerk or acting suspicious.

 

[areinike]

Just experienced the worst harassment ever!

I was at a public campsite in the George Washington National Forest with my family for the Memorial Day weekend. As per my ritual, I had all my stuff spread out as was mixing up a batch of eliquid for my clearo to take on a hike. I was enjoying a vape when a park ranger pulls up and mozies on over. He proceeds to tell me that another camper nearby noticed my "activity" and complained that it might be illegal. He asks me about my "devices" and demands to see the "substance" I'm putting in them. As I try and explain to him what they are and that the eliquid is basically nicotine, he continuously interrupts me. Incredibly skeptical, he takes them to his truck, puts on latex gloves and begins to inspect them as he makes a call on his walkie talkie or whatever. This is when his ignorance and [what I perceived as] antagonism really began to spew. He motions me over to the truck with his prototypical two-finger wag and asks me to tell him what "exactly" is in the "viles" I have. As I don't have access to that proprietary information, I explain what it basically is and how it is used. By this point his suspicion meter has red-lined and he's gotten himself worked up into a confused tizzy as he seemingly tries to catch me in a lie. I am told to stay put while he radios in for more information. After a long conversation with whomever, he turns his attention back to me and tells me that devices like mine are intended for use with illegal drugs and that liquid forms of these drugs are very "similar" to what I have (now he's a chemist). He informs me that the park is full of children and that they cant allow drugs or "anything construed" as drugs in the park. He informs me that it is a federal park and any crime within is dealt with that much more harshly. He informs me that because it is Memorial Day, there is a lack of man power so he'll have to "take my word for it". He then turns his attention to my beer, confiscates it, and tells me he will be by again later to "check in" on us. WOW

#parknazi
#getaclue
#...

Damn beer stealin' power trip park nazis.

 

[chellemmm]

A LEO's primary job is to enforce the peace and to enforce the law. MOST people do NOT bring alcohol to a National Park. MANY people may, but it is still against the law, and IMHO, an UNWISE action, especially when there are children present.I don't want to keep arguing, but I would be PO'd if I saw you with a beer (or your portable bar) in a PUBLIC National Park. Again, it is not your backyard. Having respect for other people is more important to me than if some Park Ranger RIGHTFULLY confiscated your beer. You are lucky he didn't ticket you for the alcohol. But, you would probably complain about what an ... he was, if he did...

You got me there, but: most people do bring alcohol into the park campgrounds (I know how that sounds, anyway), most drink some responsibly (but NOT all), and my kids were there too (I know how THAT sounds)

A BIT rude is an understatement. And no slack for just not listening. A LEO's primary job is to be attentive and listen (most Rangers are well educated and very helpful)