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High End Mechanical Mod Clones That Copy Logo's and Serials, OPINIONS?

Discussion in 'APV and Mods Discussion' started by Gary Mcroy, Nov 1, 2013.

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  1. Gary Mcroy

    Gary Mcroy Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Ive commented on this before but I figured I start a thread to gather other peoples opinions on this matter. Its my personal opinion that its shameful and Id never buy one. I think it takes away from the people that spend the time to manufacture a product that people are willing to save there money up for a chance to own. Yeah, they can be hard to get, but no one can honestly say they CANT get a real one. Right here in this very forum is a classified section were you can buy almost any rare mod are atty ever made. Yeah there expensive, but they tend to be made by upstart small businesses that have to charge a decent amount for it to be logical to develop them. I by no means am wealthy, but I feel like if you want it enough, save up. Problem is once you do save up and buy the legit mod, it can be irritating to see that next month fasttech is selling a carbon copy (visually) to it, insignia's, serials, and all for 75 cent. Then the markets flooded with them and theres 50 times more fakes than real ones floating around. Makes you not AS proud to have that prized mod.

    Mainly though my main issue is the fact they steal the insignia, logos, and serials. Theres alot of clones out there that are copys of popular mods that dont go that far. They make a VERY similar mod thats an obvious clone, but they dont try to make it look like it actually is the real mod. Im totally not against cheap stuff either btw. I like fasttech just like the next guy, just not the identical clones. Just thought Id through that out there. Anyway, that my view on the situation, im curious to see what the consensus is.

    PS: I read a post from someone referring to posts on Vapor Joes site about discount and fake stuff. It stated that the site is now trying to get vapors to start calling clones "collectible replica's" due to the bad connotation the term clone receives. Ive seen people actually using it. Not a fan of this either. Ill save someone a post. Yes im a hater :)
     
  2. anavidfan

    anavidfan ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jun 14, 2012
    U.S.
    One thing is to copy and advertise the devices as a Clone of XXXX. Nothing really wrong, BUT when they take the logos, names and even serialize it is a counterfeit.

    WHat makes things worse is that not all potential buyers will know it as a counterfeit and might be fooled into spending too much thinking its the genuine.
     
  3. VapingTurtle

    VapingTurtle ECF Guru Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Opinions? Yeah, I gots opinions...

    No battery tubes should be allowed to have logos on them. And they should all be available for free at your local health clinic. And they should all be made in Bangladesh, or Rwanda, or Greece, or some other third-world country, not a top-tier economic power like China. And they should all be designed by committee. And there should never be serial numbers or that GPS chip that they embed in the battery caps to track your movements. (You know who "they" are!)
     
  4. JmanEspresso

    JmanEspresso Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2013
    Westchester, NY,USA
    Im someone who appreciates the high end market, and if I like a mod, Ill buy the real thing.

    I dont like calling them clones, I call them counterfiets, which is what they are. I dont agree with the exact 1 to 1 copying of someone elses work. Its straight up stealing, and I dont agree.

    What I AM ok with, is something like the SMoktech Magneto. Some say its an Nzonic clone, but if you held the two in your hands, you would see they're not clones of each other. Sure, the top cap on the Magneto bares SOME similarity to the top cap on the Nzonic, but its not the same. The Nzonic doesnt even have a flat top cap in original form, its an add on. And the magnetic switch? Sorry, plenty of mods and hybrids use magents. Magneto is not a clone, its a mod that MAY have been inspired by the NZonic. THIS I am Ok with, and Id buy a MAgneto if I needed a cheap mech.


    Now let me be clear on THIS point.

    All you guys and girls who buy counterfiets because your vape budget doesn't allow you to buy the real thing, Ive got no issue with you. None whatsoever. Id just as soon share a beer with someone vaping a Nemesis clone with a trident clone, as I would someone vaping a real Chi with a real Kayfun. People afford what they afford, and not being able to vape a cool looking mech simply because of money, sucks. I dont agree with the counterfiet market, Ill do nothing to support it, but Ive got no issue with those who buy them because they can't afford the real thing.



    NOW.

    Heres what I really am happy to see. KidneyPuncher:

    Nemesis Clone - Kidney Puncher

    Since there really isnt much we can do about counterfiets being made, aside from supporting the guys who make the real thing, this here, is the next best thing. Oh, you made an exact copy of someone elses hard work? YEah, well sell it, after we have made sure everyone who lays eyes on it knows its a fake. IF I ever bought a counterfiet, itd be this one.
     
  5. ZW99GT

    ZW99GT Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 31, 2012
    DFW
    I really like that idea. Unfortunately, my first and only mech mod is a Nemesis fake. I didn't really know much about mech mods, what the Nemesis was or how I felt about clones when I ordered it. UNTIL I received it and saw how great it really is. I have some dremel attachments on the way and I plan to remove the name and logo from the fake and buy a real one with Christmas cash. It's that great. If I had ever seen or used a real one in person I would have gladly dropped the case on the real thing.
     
  6. JmanEspresso

    JmanEspresso Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2013
    Westchester, NY,USA
    Pbusardo, among others, often makes this comment about counterfiets/clones:

    People buy them, like them, and then want to buy the real thing.


    I dont think thats true for everyone, but I definitely see people do this.
     
  7. dspin

    dspin Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 2, 2010
    USA
    Well said Gary, well said


    I give you the latest Caravela Counterfeit from Malaysia - very scary


    [​IMG]



    [​IMG]
     
  8. retrox

    retrox Flavor Chaser Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Feb 10, 2013
    NC, USA
  9. Cjax

    Cjax Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 12, 2012
    RVa USA
    A far as logos go I could take or leave them. The reason i buy 1:1 clones is not to pass them off as the real thing, I'm very upfront about what it is if asked. I buy them because spare parts or aftermarket parts made for the original will work for the clones as well if it is a1:1. Case in point, I have a Nemesis clone from Hcigar. If I need a new or extended battery screw i can order one from atmo or vaperev. And when fusions put out the Nem-1 adapter,I picked it up knowing i could use it on my clone. There are more options and extras if the parts all match. They probly could have put a horse head on the dang thing and i still would be just as happy with it.
     
  10. Scarey

    Scarey Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Sep 14, 2013
    Lafayette, IN, USA
    I don't think it's immoral to use the markings for a replica. That said, I do think it's tacky as hell. Using the nemesis as an example: The logo could go away on either the replica or the original, and I would be just as amazed by its form factor. In fact, I might like them more, since it doesn't some silly picture that the designer thought looked cool on it. If I like a mod, it's for the form and features. Not the logo.
     
  11. State O' Flux

    State O' Flux Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 17, 2013
    Seattle
    And coming from a real Caravela owner... that makes it even scarier.
     
  12. WidowsSon

    WidowsSon Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2013
    Toronto ON
    I'm starting a new business where I counterfeit hi end mods with better materials, higher tolerances, nicer finishes and user requests built in, market them as clones but charge 3 times the price.

    any takers?
     
  13. rangie

    rangie Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 22, 2013
    NOTTINGHAM ENGLAND
    so tell me you would not buy it if you were on a budget were you could not afford the real thing I would gladly buy the real thing if its was a lot cheaper its about time that modders made these things a lot cheaper you cant blame me for buying it when its a third of the price and does the same job I do buy the original mods that I can afford such as the smok mods and tanks itaste mods these are people who make good quality products at proper prices so when the others get their heads out off the backsides and see it as it is I wont have to buy fakes clones copy's what every you want to can them and yes I do have a nemesis copy but I didn't buy it because it was a nemesis I bought it because I like the style of it and the quality for the price I look at those over priced mods and think to myself that there is only so much you can do with a piece of metal tube and can you justify £200-£300 pounds or dollars for it I've looked into making some things for the vaping market and guess what they would not come in anywhere near the price these people charge I was a self employed joiner for a lot of years up until my spine gave up and I was very busy doing things such has hand made / windows / kitchens fare cheaper than these large manufactures and I mad e a nice living out of it until I couldn't do it anymore and I proved a point that you can buy good quality for less
     
  14. State O' Flux

    State O' Flux Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 17, 2013
    Seattle
    You wouldn't happen to be related to VXLA would you? :laugh:

    No, wait... they did the opposite of that. Did a poor copy of a good clone, tossed on some gay ... logos and charged triple... then lied about the whole thing being an original design.

    Nope... your plan is a new and unique one. ;-)
     
  15. patkin

    patkin Vaping Master ECF Veteran

    Nov 6, 2012
    Arizona USA
    Synchronicity. I just watched evelwmn's youtube about this last night. I agree with her. Clone is one thing, counterfeit another. I have never bought either but if I ever did, at least for way high end price, the original would not be loosing a customer as I wouldn't buy one of those anyway.... well, not unless I won the lottery big time.
     
  16. odiHnaD

    odiHnaD Full Member Verified Member

    Aug 25, 2013
    San Miguel, CA
    1:1 "clones" are counterfeits IMO, just like a fake Rolex or Gucci purse, they are created with the intention of being passed off as the real thing.

    Leaving the logo and/or serial number is much more straight forward and honest.

    If you're buying a clone because you're on a budget I get it and have no problem with it, it's the people who make the clones and those that resell them as authentic that I take issue with.
     
  17. Dannyboy5691

    Dannyboy5691 Super Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Apr 13, 2013
    Hamburg, NY
    Ok let's go! Does anyone know where the emblems from the Chi You or the King mod came from? Mojo took his emblem from a Korean soccer team. Sure fire took their emblem from a public domain picture that was designed by someone else. But they're original? It always amuses me when I read that someone is ok with collectible replicas, but that it's the "stealing" of the emblem and using it that makes a collectible replica unacceptable. Really? It's not the fact that China has copied and manufactured the mod. Because a Nemesis isn't a Nemesis without the AOD, SN or cap engravings. Hilarious!

    The tubes for most mods are practically identical, with a few differences in machined parts for eye candy. These "original designers" have done nothing but copy each other. All while still using the same technology. Now if you think that those mods are worth $200-$300 fine. I'm glad you're happy with your purchase.

    But, don't assume you know my, or anyone's, financial situation when it involves purchases. You know nothing about my life and to assume that you do only shows how ignorant you really are.

    What also aggravates me are people like you and the other self appointed collectible replica police. You constantly try to make others feel inferior for their choice in order to boost your ego. Collectible replicas aren't hurting anyone's business. You can look at any shop and find that the original mechs are almost always sold out. You have fight to get on a waiting list or hope that you can F5 faster then everyone else at checkout to get one.

    If designers are so concerned about collectible replicas flooding the market, then why don't they ramp up their production? Provape doesn't seem to have any problems with supplying their customers, or any worries about Chinas collectible replica of the Provari. Why do you think that is?

    The fact is that these designers keep their production limited to keep demand high. Then they can charge an enormous price for basically the same product when they have another "release date". They've perpetuated the collectible replica market and now they're crying foul?

    China's doing nothing wrong. Their collectible replicas are allowing more people to vape a decent product within their economic limits. And if anyone has a problem with me or another person using a collectible replica, please voice your opinion in person if you happen to see us at a vape meet. I'm sure you'll learn a few things about the vape community as a whole.
     
  18. odiHnaD

    odiHnaD Full Member Verified Member

    Aug 25, 2013
    San Miguel, CA
    I think you've come to the heart of the issue right there, exclusivity. People will pay for an exclusive product as a status symbol, cars, purses, jewelry, watches, technology, mods, you name it.

    The prevalence of clones/counterfeits jeopardizes this, I think it's great that you can get something with 99% of the functionality of the original for 20% of the price, it makes these products more accessible to more people and anything that can help the vaping community grow is a win in my book.


    It's the potential for fraud in resale that bothers me, some shops will try this tactic and it can be especially prevalent in private party transactions. (which tends to happen with most counterfeit "premium" items)

    For this reason 1:1 knock offs that are trying to pass themselves off as the original are not my cup-o-tea.

    I think the whole Oni mod scandal is a great example of how clones can be exploited in a horribly fraudulent way.
     
  19. Gary Mcroy

    Gary Mcroy Senior Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    I clearly never said that I know anyones budgetary limits, but I bet there no worse than my own. Its not just about the logo or the serial, its the fact that its designed to be a complete ripoff of someone elses intellectual property. A clone of a design for fuctions sake doesnt have to try to be a counterfeit. Like someone mentioned earlier about the Magneto sharing a similar design to the Nzonic, (of which ive owned both, still have the Magneto) it didnt have to try to be a 1:1 copy of earlier designed mod to give vapers on a budget a chance to use the same features. Like I said my opinion is its crap to counterfeit someones work to cash in on it. A clone doesnt have to be a counterfeit to let vapors on a budget try out newly developed features or designs. It does take away from the people that saved there money to get the real one, and trust me all those people arnt rich guys with limitless bank accounts. Alot are vapers that live on a poor to modest budget that just wanted to own something nice that there wasnt going to be 20 times more copys of in a week than the original. You say that its impossible to buy the real ones, yet you use a forum that sells them in the classys all day everyday. Dont want to spend the money on one? Nothing wrong with that, but dont feed me excuses on why you cant buy a real one. Just say you dont wanna. Also someone starting a new business making mods cant charge 30 bucks for one and realisticly afford to finance a startup, buying equipment and all. The chinese companys are already there ready to counterfeit any and everything. Id be no less happy if I saved for a new Rolex (which would never happen) and next month there were 20 times more fakes than the original model.

    You seem to be upset that everyone doesnt share your same opinion. Your most likely the guy at the vape meet that lies to people and says his isnt a clone, and trust I dont need to learn anything about the "vape community as a whole". Not everyone shares your opinion, and definitely not your demeanor toward others opinions. Oh yeah and you calling these counterfeits "collectible replicas" is a joke right? Theres not a thing collectible about them.
     
  20. retired1

    retired1 Administrator Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 5, 2013
    Texas
    I think this one has been beat to death. Along with every other thread that's started about the same topic every other week.

    ECF's stance is counterfeits are not allowed in the co-ops or classifieds. If you're dead set on getting one, you won't be peddling it on ECF if you don't like it.

    Closing.
     
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