High flavoring content in some e-cigarettes may be cause for concern
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Yeah, but they're pounding the "regulations are needed" and "may be more attractive to young people" drums, which automatically makes anything they say highly suspect -- that 2nd one is a complete non-starter, since they seem to imply that adults don't like yummy flavors.
I would agree that SOME flavoring compounds are less healthful, but the only "regulation" I need is my own, in reading and researching what chemicals may cause which problems, and how likely they are. And I'll keep using my high-flavor-mix DIY juices, because 1) they taste better, and 2) they don't require steeping. One of the major reasons I decided to get into DIY is just because I have no idea what "juice manufacturers" may put in ejuice; if I make my own, I have a much better idea, though granted, what chemicals make up the actual flavors are still a complete mystery. Best I can do so far, with what is so far known of those chemicals, is to avoid diketones wherever possible.
Andria
I would agree that SOME flavoring compounds are less healthful, but the only "regulation" I need is my own, in reading and researching what chemicals may cause which problems, and how likely they are. And I'll keep using my high-flavor-mix DIY juices, because 1) they taste better, and 2) they don't require steeping. One of the major reasons I decided to get into DIY is just because I have no idea what "juice manufacturers" may put in ejuice; if I make my own, I have a much better idea, though granted, what chemicals make up the actual flavors are still a complete mystery. Best I can do so far, with what is so far known of those chemicals, is to avoid diketones wherever possible.
Andria
I do think that the effects of flavorings need to be studied. I personally don't vape 5ml a day, possibly 3ml at the most. I didn't read the actual study, but did they measure the chemical content in the liquid, or in the vapor? I would assume there would be a difference in the exposure levels. Also, are they comparing to exposure limits based on 40hr/week exposure?
The site I found this at is apropos http://www.popularmechanics. com/science/health/a15116/flavored-e-cigarettes-chemicals/
They used 5 flavors of Njoy, and 5 flavors of Blu, along with the rest from vape shops in the Portland area, but do not name them...convenient way to keep anyone from debunking your findings by conducting independant tests on the same juices.
They claimed the excessive levels on inhalation are based off of 5ml/day juice consumption, but only off of certain, unnamed juices. Could be the Blu or Njoy, in which case 5ml/day is pretty excessive.
I see no evidence to prove it, but I'd put money down that the "dangerous" irratants found were pulled from the Blus, extrapolated to suggest uncommonly high levels of consumption, and the vape shop juices were thrown in to make it sound like they were the problem.
They claimed the excessive levels on inhalation are based off of 5ml/day juice consumption, but only off of certain, unnamed juices. Could be the Blu or Njoy, in which case 5ml/day is pretty excessive.
I see no evidence to prove it, but I'd put money down that the "dangerous" irratants found were pulled from the Blus, extrapolated to suggest uncommonly high levels of consumption, and the vape shop juices were thrown in to make it sound like they were the problem.
Where did we first hear concerns about 'high flavoring' with suggestions on dilution/minimal flavoring?
So now the ANTZ have taken it up as an attack.
Similar ANTZ jujutsu:
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/media-general-news/662709-what-bunch-bs-6.html#post15531184
post #57
"At this point in time, where the future of vaping is being decided, perhaps there should be a moratorium on our side over emphasizing the negatives in studies and in commentaries, that then seep into the anti's media and commentary against ecigs."
Question about the Blu or Njoy. How much juice is contained in a Blu or Njoy cartridge? Do we have that info. So how many carts would you have to go thru to have vaped 5ml? Also, aren't they usually higher nic content because of how poorly they work. The bigger question I wonder about is, was this testing done on the liquid only, as if you would drink 5ml/day or did they actually vape 5ml/days worth of liquid and test the vapor? I didn't see anywhere stated that they vaped the liquids, just tested them for flavoring concentrations.
I make my own juice with USP PG/VG and nic and all natural kosher (whatever that means in this context) no artificial ingredients flavorings and some Stevia sweetner.
It is my personal taste but I fing the flavorings in most commercial juices overpowering. But I am a bit strange I do admit.
I would like to see content labeling on all vaping juices. If they have artificial sweeteners in them they cause me grief. Not sure about other ingredients, but since they will not tell me what is in them....
It is my personal taste but I fing the flavorings in most commercial juices overpowering. But I am a bit strange I do admit.
I would like to see content labeling on all vaping juices. If they have artificial sweeteners in them they cause me grief. Not sure about other ingredients, but since they will not tell me what is in them....
I discovered that one of the flavors I was using contains sulfites -- which are very bad news for asthmatics, so now I don't use that flavoring. But it seems to me that what they're doing is analogous to me discovering the sulfites in that one flavor, and then loudly declaiming that all flavoring, all e-cigs, are BAAAAAAAAD, and everyone should either stop vaping, vape only unflavored, or use so little flavoring that it couldn't even be tasted. 
Idiots. They're just like 2 yr olds who just discovered that the stove is hot and therefore stoves are BAAAAAAAAD.
Andria
Idiots. They're just like 2 yr olds who just discovered that the stove is hot and therefore stoves are BAAAAAAAAD.
Andria
I discovered that one of the flavors I was using contains sulfites -- which are very bad news for asthmatics, so now I don't use that flavoring. But it seems to me that what they're doing is analogous to me discovering the sulfites in that one flavor, and then loudly declaiming that all flavoring, all e-cigs, are BAAAAAAAAD, and everyone should either stop vaping, vape only unflavored, or use so little flavoring that it couldn't even be tasted.
Idiots. They're just like 2 yr olds who just discovered that the stove is hot and therefore stoves are BAAAAAAAAD.
Andria
The difference between you(a rational human being, mostly
) and a PH mouthpiece is that you recognize that this would be absurd, and they feel that the addition of the word "could/may" makes it completely acceptable.
Idiots. They're just like 2 yr olds who just discovered that the stove is hot and therefore stoves are BAAAAAAAAD.
I wish this was true, ignorance can be cured but propagandist know they are lying and are usually well paid for it.
Desk murderers all.
- Apr 2, 2009
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Please note that the title of this thread and the original weblink posted was the press release issued by the e-cig prohibitionist authors who also authored the fraudulent "e-cigs emit more carcinogenic formaldehye than cigarettes" article in the NEJM last month. The two so-called news articles (that were posted on this thread) simply repeated the false fear mongering claims made by the authors of this junk science.
The new Pankow junk study (also funded by class action lawyers, and that also concluded FDA should regulate/ban all e-cigs) at
Flavour chemicals in electronic cigarette fluids
actually found negligible nontoxic levels of chemicals in aerosolized e-liquid products containing flavors (that vapers inhale). But the authors deceptively and inappropriately compared those levels (as might be inhaled by a vaper) to NIOSH occupation exposure levels (which are for involuntary workplace exposures) for those same chemicals, and then concluded that the FDA should apply NIOSH (or similar) occupational limits as manufacturing standards for e-liquids.
In sum, that's like saying FDA should adopt NIOSH occupational standards for hundreds of chemicals in cigarette smoke as manufacturing standards for cigarettes, which would ban the sale of all cigarettes (since hundreds of chemicals in mainstream cigarette smoke greatly exceed NIOSH occupational exposure standards).
Another problem with the Pankow study is that is falsely assumed vapers consume 5ml of the exact same flavored e-liquid brand) every day.
While some frequent daily vapers may consume 5ml of e-liquid daily, the average daily vaper probably consumes 1-2ml of e-liquid daily, and most daily vapers consume more than one flavored liquid brand. I suspect that <5% of daily vapers (i.e. <.5% of people who have vaped in the past month and <.05% of people who have ever vaped) consume 5ml of the same flavored e-liquid brand daily.
The new Pankow junk study (also funded by class action lawyers, and that also concluded FDA should regulate/ban all e-cigs) at
Flavour chemicals in electronic cigarette fluids
actually found negligible nontoxic levels of chemicals in aerosolized e-liquid products containing flavors (that vapers inhale). But the authors deceptively and inappropriately compared those levels (as might be inhaled by a vaper) to NIOSH occupation exposure levels (which are for involuntary workplace exposures) for those same chemicals, and then concluded that the FDA should apply NIOSH (or similar) occupational limits as manufacturing standards for e-liquids.
In sum, that's like saying FDA should adopt NIOSH occupational standards for hundreds of chemicals in cigarette smoke as manufacturing standards for cigarettes, which would ban the sale of all cigarettes (since hundreds of chemicals in mainstream cigarette smoke greatly exceed NIOSH occupational exposure standards).
Another problem with the Pankow study is that is falsely assumed vapers consume 5ml of the exact same flavored e-liquid brand) every day.
While some frequent daily vapers may consume 5ml of e-liquid daily, the average daily vaper probably consumes 1-2ml of e-liquid daily, and most daily vapers consume more than one flavored liquid brand. I suspect that <5% of daily vapers (i.e. <.5% of people who have vaped in the past month and <.05% of people who have ever vaped) consume 5ml of the same flavored e-liquid brand daily.
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That it was nothing but garbage was apparent to me immediately just from the "need regulations" and "might be attractive to young people" artifacts; everyplace you find those, it's always garbage. They seem to think that repeating the same garbage over and over will somehow magically make it actually true.
Andria
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