Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[markfm]

The BE CEO posted "We test every diluted batch ". I wonder if he has the test results for the two specific lots that were the source of the bad samples that Kurt received? Even if he had something that came out 120 on the nose, the variance (% off of nominal for the samples) is inconsistent between the samples, so it sounds like something wasn't mixing properly.

If the samples tie to two lots, I wonder if they had a staff difference when those batches were mixed, sheer ignorance, not following whatever their own internal protocol is relative to measuring and mixing.

 

[TallGrass]

Another clue in this to support BE sourcing, and not downstream sabotage. So far, and I'm NOT making this up, all the too-high nic BE samples, save for one, are lots 256 or 257. I have not gotten the lot number from one of them yet from the customer. These have come from all over the country. Unless there was a behind the scenes conspiracy to REALLY fool everyone, the coincidence is too strong. Random people asked to come up with a lot number would not even know the format of it, let alone guess the right format and with only a difference of one. And one was from an original BE bottle. So it is even more pointing to BE QC.

Interesting... I've been trying to be the devil's advocate here and my trust in BE and "The CEO" is twiddling away very quickly.

 

[Kurt]

I got it from one of those who initially expressed concern and posted their BB/H2SO4 data. They got pretty close to that value as well.

Your Avatar frightens me. Is it Martin Short gone way bad? Looks like him. Hope its not you. You scary.

From the original post,



Not sure if its been answered but where did Kurt get the 272mg sample from?

 

[swedishfish]

Then we will have to agree to disagree. I don't feel I'm being unfair at all. You are in a position of 'authority' in the very place to where I send newbs to get information. I understand about the broken record and lack of energy things too, but they don't negate the responsibility of your position. You don't have to rant and rave ... but "wry humor" and "I-told-you-so" doesn't help the newbs that I send and undermines my confidence and comfort here in ECF-land.

Jan

There are two stickies on here about the very topic, one written by him. BE is not a registered vendor here. I don't know what else you expect the board to do.

 

[carpedebass]

The BE CEO posted "We test every diluted batch ". Wonder if he has the test results for the two specific lots that were the source of the bad samples that Kurt received?

If the samples tie to two lots, I wonder if they had a staff difference when those batches were mixed, sheer ignorance, not following whatever their own internal protocol is relative to measuring and mixing.

Or (gasp) they're lying to us...I think the latter is most likely.

 

[Hoosier]

Interesting... I've been trying to be the devil's advocate here and my trust in BE and "The CEO" is twiddling away very quickly.

Hey, TallGrass, if it makes you feel any better... I always appreciate someone playing the devil's advocate, because I begin to distrust myself if everyone agrees with me.

I'm a rather disagreeable person as a general rule. Ask any one of my co-workers...

 

[Switched]

Nutella anyone?

Far too much drama in the aftermath of the show. Some folks I haven't seen nor heard of before.

 

[Hoosier]

Ah, come on Switched. You had to know it was going to flash.

Like throwing white gasoline on hot coals.

And, no, no Nutella. That stuff smells terrible.

 

[curiousJan]

There are two stickies on here about the very topic, one written by him. BE is not a registered vendor here. I don't know what else you expect the board to do.

I expect anyone on staff of ECF not to make light of potentially fatal mistakes.

Believe me, I understand sarcasm and wry humor ... I just don't think it's appropriate from "the board" in such a potentially serious situation as this.

Jan

 

[curiousJan]

Nutella anyone?

Far too much drama in the aftermath of the show. Some folks I haven't seen nor heard of before.

Pardon me, were you speaking to me?

ETA: I don't think asking for proper respect for their positions as ECF board members (is that even the right terminology?) is drama. We'll have to agree to disagree if that is your implication.

Jan

 

[Kurt]

While making a mistake may not be criminal, knowing there could be more 270mg out there and not doing something about it after it's brought to their attention could be.

Another thing we should be looking at with our vendors is their recall procedures. Do they keep lot numbers of ingredients for their orders in such a fashion that if mistakes happen they can quickly notify their customers for a recall? Maybe a number should be on every bottle sourcing the ingredients. After all we are consuming their product into our bodies.

Not every vaper reads ECF or watches VapeTV regularly. Vendors should have a way of directly contacting customers when problems arise. I sure hope BE did something behind the scenes to let their customers know as soon as they got wind of the error. I suppose the mass emails help, but there should be a clear warning to not vape any suspect nicotine.


If this is some kind of industrial sabotage they need to take a clue from how Tylenol handled theirs.

I was told by one of the vaping media hosts that the % of vapers that frequent vaping forums is probably around 12%. I don't know where this number came from, but it does seem logical that most people that vape simply buy their stuff and do their lives. This issue has gone international now into the UK and Italy, at least, but it might not reach those that got a batch of the really high stuff. Gives me the willies, for sure.

 

[Hoosier]

I'm glad I'm not on the board. I'd have Jan peeved at me constantly!

 

[afrazier5]

All - I had a brief email coversation with the president of Gourmet Vapor over this situation today. As I don't have permission to post his message here, I will summarize the conversation:
• Box Elder is owned by the parent company of Gourmet Vapor and both are very aware of the situation
• Gourmet Vapor utilizes multiple suppliers for their nicotine and confirms one of the suppliers is Box Elder
• Through internal testing, they have no indication that any of the products we have used from them were in error.
• The nicotine they purchase from Box Elder is no more than 36mg base.
• Internal tests show nicotine content to be consistent with the labeled contents

Other than living in the same state as both companies, I have no affiliation with either organizaiton or the parent company. I simply want to help aleviate some of the fears folks have so everyone is not getting so excited over the situation.

Yes it's known the two companies are affiliated but that does not mean both companies have issues. Seriously folks, if Pepsi had a contaminiation in their soda cans would you stop eating at Pizza Hut? Companies diversify for obvious reasons but that does not mean all affiliates are affected by issues in another branch.

Aaron

 

[Spazmelda]

I was reading an Australian message board just earlier today where there were discussing it. Lots of references to stupid Americans @@.

I just want to make sure that you all understand that I was not supporting a sabotage theory, just throwing that out as a potential loophole that could be claimed due to the methods of sample collection. The clustering of the high samples into two lot numbers as well as the fact that these samples were collected from a variety of customers in different geographic locations makes the sabotage possibility even more unlikely (even though it was very unlikely to begin with).

 

[curiousJan]

I'm glad I'm not on the board. I'd have Jan peeved at me constantly!

Don't worry Hoosier ... I'm just a bit peevey!

Jan

 

[carpedebass]

I was reading an Australian message board just earlier today where there were discussing it. Lots of references to stupid Americans @@.

I just want to make sure that you all understand that I was not supporting a sabotage theory, just throwing that out as a potential loophole that could be claimed due to the methods of sample collection. The clustering of the high samples into two lot numbers as well as the fact that these samples were collected from a variety of customers in different geographic locations makes the sabotage possibility even more unlikely (even though it was very unlikely to begin with).

Agreed Spazzy! To learn from this situation means we have to look at all sides and evaluate every facet of it.

As far as the Australians calling us stupid...we're not the ones who go swimming with crocodiles...

 

[Kurt]

I was reading an Australian message board just earlier today where there were discussing it. Lots of references to stupid Americans @@.

I just want to make sure that you all understand that I was not supporting a sabotage theory, just throwing that out as a potential loophole that could be claimed due to the methods of sample collection. The clustering of the high samples into two lot numbers as well as the fact that these samples were collected from a variety of customers in different geographic locations makes the sabotage possibility even more unlikely (even though it was very unlikely to begin with).

ALL possibilities must be explored, just like any other disaster control. I also have not ruled it out, but the chances of it are dwindling. And what sort of person would purposely put people's lives at risk for simply wanting a juice company to fail? Seems very extreme indeed for the level of importance. OTOH, this is an industry that organized crime would probably be interested in. Like any other vice.

 

[Kurt]

Agreed Spazzy! To learn from this situation means we have to look at all sides and evaluate every facet of it.

As far as the Australians calling us stupid...we're not the ones who go swimming with crocodiles...

You can always count on people at keyboards calling other people stupid. Perhaps an Aussie chemist will step up in Oz. All industries have problems somewhere.

 

[carpedebass]

You can always count on people at keyboards calling other people stupid. Perhaps an Aussie chemist will step up in Oz. All industries have problems somewhere.

True..."Internet warriors" abound...sadly.

 

[Adam the Aussie]

I was reading an Australian message board just earlier today where there were discussing it. Lots of references to stupid Americans @@.

Just as one Australian, I'm forever grateful to so many Americans who have helped me out on my vaping journey. I'd be lost without this place. Not to mention some of the US made juices which are just sensational. I apologise on behalf of my fellow country men and women for any offence that was caused.