Houston, we have a problem...BE nic titration results

[LordDavon]

That email sure doesn't make me feel any better, and in my opinion it should have been sent sooner. This is a good time to be proactive and show you give a damn, but he seems to be waiting for us to push him to do the right thing. "If your'e not satisfied", maybe it should have said if you're not dead; because I'm pretty sure no one is really satisfied at the moment.

Do a recall, and shut down shipping new product until you're 100% POSITIVE that your product is up to par and coming out correctly!

Once again I don't notice anywhere that he actually says HOW they're changing either.

Damn, the email's gone now, so you'll just have to take my word for it

Honestly, I think that is about as much as they can do, without admitting anything. They are basically saying that they are going to take care of any "questionable" sales, but not admit to anyone have a reason to question them. Basically, they are throwing everyone a bone. It's sad, but that's what I am starting to expect out of them.

 

[GoodDog]

ECF allowed the other BE emails to be posted. I think their policy is that we can't post emails from ECF forum suppliers but since BE was never a forum supplier it should be alright.

 

[kinabaloo]

Yeah, but there is a possibilty, isn't there, of other batches also being affected. Their labeling was somewhat imprecise, if you recall, so that complicates everything. How does one recall bottles that were not labeled properly (or not labeled at all)?

Again, that's their fault and their problem.

The very least that should be done is to issue a warning recommending that first-time users return the liquid for an exchange and more seasoned users look out for the signs x, y, z. That email doesn't even come close to this.

Not even issuing a clear warning = all credibility gone.

 

[retird]

Could this issue be bigger than just the DIY'ers.....Lets just imagine that BE may be selling nic base to alot of vendors, and the vendors have made and sold e-juice containing BE nic base.....do the vendors have an obligation also......just thinking out loud.......

 

[tmcase]

ECF allowed the other BE emails to be posted. I think their policy is that we can't post emails from ECF forum suppliers but since BE was never a forum supplier it should be alright.

I'm checking with Joker for clarification on this. I know others have posted email and don't get noticed but mine will, trust me.

 

[kinabaloo]

Honestly, I think that is about as much as they can do, without admitting anything. They are basically saying that they are going to take care of any "questionable" sales, but not admit to anyone have a reason to question them. Basically, they are throwing everyone a bone. It's sad, but that's what I am starting to expect out of them.

Risking the lives of those who have not heard to story solely in the hope that those people don;t get to hear it? Recalls and warnings are not that rare - and sometimes for would seem trivial in comparison to this.

 

[sparky604]

Does anyone have a test kit for sale that a Canadian could buy? All the ones for sale on ebay won't ship to Canada.

Alternately, I have 3 60ml bottles of 100mg/ml Lot 257 VG Box Elder nic, 2 of them unopened (altho with no seal it's impossible to tell that I haven't opened them) if Kurt is interested in testing them (he's probably got about 10 litres of juice to test now, heh) I can mail all 3 original bottles. I have used part of one of the bottles, and as far as I know I'm not dead, but I'm kind of leery of using them myself now.

 

[kinabaloo]

Could this issue be bigger than just the DIY'ers.....Lets just imagine that BE may be selling nic base to alot of vendors, and the vendors have made and sold e-juice containing BE nic base.....do the vendors have an obligation also......just thinking out loud.......

If thi is the case, and it may well be - that might be what they are trying to protect (imorally). This way-over liquid may or may not have gone to those outlets. I imagine many of them have sent sample to Kurt if that is the case.

 

[kinabaloo]

Does anyone have a test kit for sale that a Canadian could buy? All the ones for sale on ebay won't ship to Canada.

Alternately, I have 3 60ml bottles of 100mg/ml Lot 257 VG Box Elder nic, 2 of them unopened (altho with no seal it's impossible to tell that I haven't opened them) if Kurt is interested in testing them (he's probably got about 10 litres of juice to test now, heh) I can mail all 3 original bottles. I have used part of one of the bottles, and as far as I know I'm not dead, but I'm kind of leery of using them myself now.

If you draw some into a syringe does it look darkish (amber) or have a pungent smell ? (Be careful)

ps: check the link below in my sig for their shipping.

 

[Prettycat191]

Sometimes it's better to admit that there could have been a mistake, especially when it's sitting there blatantly staring them in the face. You can say it's not possible all day long, but when the numbers are there in front of you for all to see, all of the denial in the world will just lose you the respect of those who you used to call customers.

When I take a plate of Chicken Alfredo out to my table and they find a bolt in it (that happened last week lol), I'm sure not going to tell them that it couldn't possibly have happened when it's right there in front of me, I would lose credibility (and my tip!).

I can see Brad's side too though, I don't like admitting when I've made a mistake, I pride myself on doing a good job and not screwing up. So when I suddenly find myself in a situation where it looks like I screwed up (usually when someone just wanted to complain about something rather than me actually doing anything wrong), I don't want to admit it either. It's important to be able to admit when you're wrong, and this is one of those times.

This is a serious issue, people can get sick and die from this, it's not just a toy with a part that "might" break off and be choked on, someone could get this on their skin and not realize that it's a lethal dose. You just don't play with people's lives like that.

 

[mostlyclassics]

That was a reassuring exercise!

Yesterday evening, in reaction to all the hoo-raw over Box Elder, I took my stash of high-test, unflavored nicquid bottles out of the freezer, where they've been at zero to minus ten degrees F., to warm them up to room temperature. (About half of the bottles are VG, which gets really gooey at Siberian temperatures. Also, I don't know if icy-cold temperatures affect the test, whereas I know it works fine at room temperature.)

This evening, I tested every bottle of high-test with the eBay kit. (I had tested five of them with the eBay kit before I sent them off to the freezer, just to make sure of my lab technique and the test procedure itself.)

The five I had tested before came out this time to a few percent (generally, five percent) of what I had recorded before. All, from various vendors, were within 10 percent of stated strength on the label. All of the others in my stash tested to within 10 percent of label strength. These included both PG and VG vehicles.

I had one bottle of untested BE labelled as 48 mg. which I had not tested before. There's no lot number on it, only a CAS number. Today it tested a tad high, at 55 mg. I tested it twice and got the same result both times. It's a keeper, though. It's only about 15% high, it smells "good" and it's just a pale yellow tick away from colorless. You can't see it as pale yellow unless you compare it to distilled water in an identical graduated cylinder. I made a note on the label that it tested at 55 mg./ml.

One thing I discovered while running all those tests is that 2 drops of bromothymol blue is really not enough to reliably see the final color change from pale green to pale yellow. Six drops works much better because the colors are more concentrated and it's easier to see the change.

 

[GoodDog]

Does anyone have a test kit for sale that a Canadian could buy? All the ones for sale on ebay won't ship to Canada.

Alternately, I have 3 60ml bottles of 100mg/ml Lot 257 VG Box Elder nic, 2 of them unopened (altho with no seal it's impossible to tell that I haven't opened them) if Kurt is interested in testing them (he's probably got about 10 litres of juice to test now, heh) I can mail all 3 original bottles. I have used part of one of the bottles, and as far as I know I'm not dead, but I'm kind of leery of using them myself now.

You should be able to buy the supplies individually in Canada and the UK. There's a sticky at the top of this sub-forum that explains what to buy and how to test your nicotine, if that helps. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/35922-any-interest-determining-nicotine-dvap.html The guy on eBay just bought the materials in quantity and is selling smaller amounts.

 

[kinabaloo]

Sorry about that Prettycat but I think everybody who has done business with BE will get that email.

Surely only those that offered their email address, such as for a newsletter. To reach all it would have to be done via PayPal or whoever they use.

+++

A small extra on the dangerousness. Easy to forget that not everyone is gong to be fully heathy; people with existing health issues could be particularly vulnerable.

 

[kinabaloo]

You should be able to buy the supplies individually in Canada and the UK. There's a sticky at the top of this sub-forum that explains what to buy and how to test your nicotine, if that helps. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/35922-any-interest-determining-nicotine-dvap.html The guy on eBay just bought the materials in quantity and is selling smaller amounts.

Is it the same vendor?

It's certainly a good method. Another guy simplified DVap's approach and that is what is the basis for the kit below. An 'acid BB' method.

 

[sparky604]

You should be able to buy the supplies individually in Canada and the UK. There's a sticky at the top of this sub-forum that explains what to buy and how to test your nicotine, if that helps. http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/35922-any-interest-determining-nicotine-dvap.html The guy on eBay just bought the materials in quantity and is selling smaller amounts.

Was hoping for a package it's hard enough finding PG in this province, let alone sulphuric acid. The BE base did make some pretty killer juice though, great throat hit for VG and I had to vape less of it to "get there".

I'll probably just keep using it if Kurt isn't hurting for samples, it's not like this situation is impossible with any of the other vendors out there. Can't tell what's in it just by looking at it, and I'm no chemist!

 

[sparky604]

If you draw some into a syringe does it look darkish (amber) or have a pungent smell ? (Be careful)

ps: check the link below in my sig for their shipping.

Oh awesome!! Thanks very much, I will contact that guy about purchasing a few kits!

 

[oldsoldier]

Apparently it is against ECF rules to post an email so I'm deleting it for my own protection. Since I am not very good at summarizing what is said, I will leave that up to somebody else. Sorry I had to delete it.

To sum it up very quickly, it said that you can send your nic back for a full refund including shipping if you are not satisfied with their product.

posting personal emails is against the TOS. My interpretation is a mass mailing has no expectation of privacy. I may be over ruled but If I am you will not be held responsible and infracted.

 

[tmcase]

Surely only those that offered their email address, such as for a newsletter. To reach all it would have to be done via PayPal or whoever they use.

Every ecig vendor that I have done business with has asked that your register. Some will allow you to checkout as a guest but those who register will have their email address in the vendors database. Those registered customers should get this last email.

I'm curious about something though. People are posting email everyday in the Deals & Steals thread and that seems to be allowed. I'm sure some of them are ECF suppliers. I don't understand the damn rules. But I can't afford to take the chance until I hear from Joker and that might take awhile. Maybe somebody braver than me will repost it. I've already seen it posted elsewhere but I won't say where in case it is a violation. I don't want to get that person in trouble.

 

[Kurt]

Kurt thanks again for the testing work and helping us sort this out. With that said are you now going to make a policy of promoting nic vendors? I believe you just bumped up the stock of XtremeVaping about 100 points ;-) You're word is now very valuable, and you have people wanting to help defer your costs, this could become a very slippery slope.

have you tested XtremeVaping Nic, if you have and trust them I will buy from them. As a former BE customer and DIY'er, I wont trust any Nic vendor for some time.

Thanks again for your support of the community.

True I have not tested Levy's juice. Levy runs his own titrations, this has been known for a long time. DVap tested his as well. My aim is to not necessarily promote vendors like an advertisement, but to point out those that have been testing all along. And perhaps those that start. That is the point of all of this: who produces nic at truthful values?

If we do not find out who we can trust, what is the point of all this I am going through right now??

 

[tmcase]

posting personal emails is against the TOS. My interpretation is a mass mailing has no expectation of privacy. I may be over ruled but If I am you will not be held responsible and infracted.

Thank you oldsoldier. I missed your post by 1 minute.