How about it?? No nic ecigs,,,, let's get it done

[harmony gardens]

This isn't exactly an original idea,,, but a big light bulb went on as I thought about this possibility.

We should encourage manufacturers sell electronic cigarettes with no nicotine. This will secure half the battle. There should be no issue with the FDA saying these are medical devices, or drug delivery devices if they don't include nicotine,,, they are simply the equivalent of decaf coffee, for smokers. People could use them to compliment the patch to replace the act of smoking as they quit smoking,,, and continue to vape after they no longer are addicted to nicotine.

This could secure the device side of the equation, and we can fight the nicotine battle another day.

 

[hyperdeficit]

I think lower nicotine levels might be something to consider, keep the levels we have now, just add lower ones.

However some places sell no nicotine juice and you can always DIY

my eventual plan is to just vape non, but i gotta satisfy the nic fits for now

 

[harmony gardens]

I think lower nicotine levels might be something to consider, keep the levels we have now, just add lower ones.

However some places sell no nicotine juice and you can always DIY

my eventual plan is to just vape non, but i gotta satisfy the nic fits for now

Well, I mean if there's no nicotine in the device at the point of sale, it takes away the entire issue of whats in it. You can get juice with nicotine to put in them if you are clever enough, and know where to look for it.

 

[halfevildruid]

many suppliers offer no nic juice and carts. you can choose kits from some with no nic. Make your own with some PG and flavor... the real issue is they gotta get their hands in the pot...

 

[harmony gardens]

many suppliers offer no nic juice and carts. you can choose kits from some with no nic. Make your own with some PG and flavor... the real issue is they gotta get their hands in the pot...

Yes,,, we got a device that is being attacked from every angle because of the nicotine content and unknown compounds,,,if they came without nicotine, just GP or PV and flavoring, they would squeaky clean, 100% safe by all standards,,, and the FDA and ASH would have no grounds to ban the device.

It's so simple,,,, it's a device to simulate smoking without nicotine.

 

[halfevildruid]

point taken i guess, but how many of us would have wanted one as smokers going to no nicotine devices, we would have tried it and chicked it because we need the nicotine

 

[Talen]

Yes,,, we got a device that is being attacked from every angle because of the nicotine content and unknown compounds,,,if they came without nicotine, just GP or PV and flavoring, they would squeaky clean, 100% safe by all standards,,, and the FDA and ASH would have no grounds to ban the device.

It's so simple,,,, it's a device to simulate smoking without nicotine.

Where has the device been attacked? The FDA reported on their findings with cartridges not devices.

Even so the devices are still intended for the delivery of nicotine juice...I can smoke tobacco in a .... and yet bongs are still illegal to sell in my state because they are used primarily for dope.

 

[SLDS181]

Where has the device been attacked? The FDA reported on their findings with cartridges not devices.

A cartridge is just the cartridge.... the FDA is going after the delivery device in their statements.

Even so the devices are still intended for the delivery of nicotine juice...I can smoke tobacco in a .... and yet bongs are still illegal to sell in my state because they are used primarily for dope.

I don't know of any state where bongs themselves are illegal, actually....

 

[Talen]

A cartridge is just the cartridge.... the FDA is going after the delivery device in their statements.



I don't know of any state where bongs themselves are illegal, actually....

Start with Pennsylvania ...Tommy Chong went to federal prison for selling bongs to undercover DEA agents. Then you can google Michigan and Kansas.

Actually those are just some states where bongs are illegal for sale and use. There is a Federal statute as well that makes the sale of bongs illegal in the whole of the United States.

 

[kristin]

Most starter kits are sold with carts that contain nicotine. I think what Harmony means is that the starter kits should be sold WITHOUT nicotine carts INCLUDED. There are a few distrbutors in the U.S. (ecigarettesusa.com , smokestixusa.com) that don't offer any nic carts at all, but they are still feeling the heat because it seems the FDA wants to ban e-cigs altogether, not just e-cig carts containing nicotine.

Harmony's point is that, if ALL starter kits came only with nic-free juice/carts, the FDA at least couldn't ban them. Juice/carts with nicotine would be only "Sold separately" and the FDA couldn't call the e-cigs a medical device? Then they'd only have to argue the carts/smoke juice in court?

 

[SLDS181]

Start with Pennsylvania ...Tommy Chong went to federal prison for selling bongs to undercover DEA agents. Then you can google Michigan and Kansas.

Actually those are just some states where bongs are illegal for sale and use. There is a Federal statute as well that makes the sale of bongs illegal in the whole of the United States.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but drug paraphernalia is illegal to sell in PA (like anywhere else). Under DEA regulations, it will only become paraphernalia once a residue can be found of illegal drugs - otherwise it is for tobacco use.

Oh and Tommy Chong was an investor in his son's company, which was a CA company, not a PA company - the raid was a part of a larger operation, based out of Pittsburgh. Just saying.

 

[Talen]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but drug paraphernalia is illegal to sell in PA (like anywhere else). Under DEA regulations, it will only become paraphernalia once a residue can be found of illegal drugs - otherwise it is for tobacco use.

Oh and Tommy Chong was an investor in his son's company, which was a CA company, not a PA company - the raid was a part of a larger operation, based out of Pittsburgh. Just saying.

Tell that to all the .... sellers busted since 2001 with brand new unused bongs. Tommy Chong was an owner in the business run by his son. The business sold bongs to undercover DEA agents in PA. The investigation was based solely on this company.

This isn't a DEA regulation it is a federal law which makes no distinction whether the device has been used or not. The residue bit as well as tobacco use was argued unsuccessfully at the Supreme court level.

 

[SLDS181]

Tell that to all the .... sellers busted since 2001 with brand new unused bongs. Tommy Chong was an owner in the business run by his son. The business sold bongs to undercover DEA agents in PA. The investigation was based solely on this company.

Well, he was an investor, his son was the owner, and he did not directly sell them. That was the point I was clearing up here.

This isn't a DEA regulation it is a federal law which makes no distinction whether the device has been used or not. The residue bit as well as tobacco use was argued unsuccessfully at the Supreme court level.

.... no, the reason why that lost was because of the other provisions.... specifically instructions and advertising in use.

(1) instructions, oral or written, provided with the item concerning its use;

(2) descriptive materials accompanying the item which explain or depict its use;

(3) national and local advertising concerning its use;

(4) the manner in which the item is displayed for sale;

(5) whether the owner, or anyone in control of the item, is a legitimate supplier of like or related items to the community, such as a licensed distributor or dealer of tobacco products;

(6) direct or circumstantial evidence of the ratio of sales of the item(s) to the total sales of the business enterprise;

(7) the existence and scope of legitimate uses of the item in the community; and

(8) expert testimony concerning its use.

They are not, in it of themselves, illegal.

But this is enough OT discussion.