How do I fix my juice ? Too much Caramel

[Hbuddha]

Hello,

I made 20 mls of this juice : http://..................../recipe/333273/+Caramel-Coffee+Banana+Macchiato+ ( I don't know why the link doesn't work. I hope I can paste the recipe here :
Nicotine 5.04 mg
PG 8.82
VG 59.52
Banana (Flavorah)
0.38
Caramel (Flavorah)
0.64
Coffee (DIY)
0.32
Cream (Flavorah)
1.28
Mocha (Flavorah)
1.02
Vanilla Custard (Flavorah)
0.64


Since I only had Caramel Mocha, I used that instead of Mocha. Like a champ that I am, I forgot I had already put in Caramel. So now, I have too much Caramel in my juice.
It doesn't help that the recommended PG/VG is 20/80 - and I made a 30/70.
I have used, say about 4 mils to give it a go. I prepared the juice three days ago and tried some yesterday (if someone wants to know how steeped the juice is).

So my questions are :
1) What flavour can I add to taper off the Caramel?I have quite a few flavours in my stash. The amount of Caramel in the juice gives me the taste of a burnt coil.
2) Once I taper off the Caramel, how can I bring this juice back to 20/80 ?

 

[greek mule]

@IDJoel

 

[bombastinator]

I don’t know of a caramel flavor reducer myself. Such a thing might exist. The only way I know of to lower the ratio of a juice element is to add more of everything else. If you add more nic, pg, and flavors other than caramel you should be able to get it to the levels you want. It’s a complicated math problem though. You’ve got 16ml of juice out of a 20mg recipie, and 4 ml of bottle space to work with. It seems you would need to figure out what the actual amount of each ingredient you have in the bottle currently is, then determine what you need to add to get it where you want it.

I’m going to go with the occam’s razor solution: DIY juice is cheap. It’s a lot of work to do for a dollar’s worth of juice. Throw it out and make a new one.

 

[IDJoel]

The only cure I know of, for any over-flavoring, is dilution.

Because, in this case, the only flavor that is too much is the caramel; the only way to dilute it, without also diluting the other flavors, is to make the same recipe while omitting the caramel and caramel mocha ingredients. Replace those two with straight VG; since the OP wants to up the VG portion of the ratio.

Personally, I would draw off 5mL of the original mixture; and make another 5mL as I described above. Mix the two mixes together and see how they taste. If it fixes the problem; then go ahead a doctor the rest. If it doesn't help... then you haven't wasted any more product.

There may be other ways to try and fix it. But, this is how I would go about it.

If that sounds like too much work, cut your losses and dump the bad batch, and try again.


Edit:
Oh, and @Hbuddha, ECF does not permit links to ELR, or VU. That's why your link wouldn't work. Screen shots are acceptable, but keep the URL out of the shot.

 

[Frenchfry1942]

I always make 5ml batches. Everything starts in percents totaling 100, then I just divide by 20. 1ml and 3ml syringe s are my tools.

I would dump it.

 

[Hbuddha]

Thanks guys. Dumping the juice is easy. I will give dilution a go and see how it goes.

 

[Opinionated]

Thanks guys. Dumping the juice is easy. I will give dilution a go and see how it goes.

I see the recipe on ELR.. but the measurements are wonky on what you've shared here

Did you measure according to percentage?

That Caramel should have been added at 1%, the Mocha @ 1.6%.. so even if you used both a Caramel and a Caramel Mocha you shouldn't be getting a burnt taste from Caramel alone..

It might bring the caramel flavor more to the forefront, but it shouldn't ruin your recipe if you only added .2ml of caramel (notice the . In the .2) to your 20ml mix..

That's just a couple drops.

I'm asking because if your measurements were incorrect it might be more than caramel contributing to the burnt taste.

 

[Hbuddha]

I see the recipe on ELR.. but the measurements are wonky on what you've shared here

Did you measure according to percentage?

That Caramel should have been added at 1%, the Mocha @ 1.6%.. so even if you used both a Caramel and a Caramel Mocha you shouldn't be getting a burnt taste from Caramel alone..

It might bring the caramel flavor more to the forefront, but it shouldn't ruin your recipe if you only added .2ml of caramel (notice the . In the .2) to your 20ml mix..

That's just a couple drops.

I'm asking because if your measurements were incorrect it might be more than caramel contributing to the burnt taste.

I mixed based on grams. How are you getting .2ml of caramel ? Per my understanding, Caramel is 2.99 grams. And Mocha is 4.78 grams. This is the screen shot of the adapted recipe :

 

[Opinionated]

I mixed based on grams. How are you getting .2ml of caramel ? Per my understanding, Caramel is 2.99 grams. And Mocha is 4.78 grams. This is the screen shot of the adapted recipe :

View attachment 807483

Wow... that's messed up.

The percentage in the original recipe for banana is .6% Not 8.95%..

do you see where it says the various percentages all the way on the right? Banana .60, caramel 1.0

That is the percentage of the total recipe that those flavors should make up.

Those percentages for flavoring never change... so your 20 ml recipe should have .6% of its total as banana flavoring and so on and so forth. You can change up your PG, VG, and nicotine ratios to your liking, but the flavors stay the same percentages.

 

[IDJoel]

I mixed based on grams. How are you getting .2ml of caramel ? Per my understanding, Caramel is 2.99 grams. And Mocha is 4.78 grams. This is the screen shot of the adapted recipe :

View attachment 807483

Note the original recipe makes 64mL... not 20:

If you added the amounts (grams) you posted in your original post:

I made 20 mls of this juice :
Nicotine 5.04 mg
PG 8.82
VG 59.52
Banana (Flavorah)
0.38
Caramel (Flavorah)
0.64
Coffee (DIY)
0.32
Cream (Flavorah)
1.28
Mocha (Flavorah)
1.02
Vanilla Custard (Flavorah)
0.64

You had to do one or more of these things
1. You used all the flavorings... as listed... and overflavored everything by over 3 times (20mL vs. 67mL).
or
2. You adjusted the recipe for 20mL, and didn't reflect that in your post. In which case; it should look like this (PG, VG, and nic not adjusted for your ingredients):

Or
3. You did something else that you haven't mentioned.

 

[Hbuddha]

Wow... that's messed up.

The percentage in the original recipe for banana is .6% Not 8.95%..

View attachment 807491

do you see where it says the various percentages all the way on the right? Banana .60, caramel 1.0

That is the percentage of the total recipe that those flavors should make up.

I am an idiot, I posted the pic of One-Shot/Concentrate instead of the adaptation.
I am pretty certain, I followed the percentages from the screen shot you posted.

 

[Hbuddha]

Note the original recipe makes 64mL... not 20:
View attachment 807493
If you added the amounts (grams) you posted in your original post:

You had to do one or more of these things
1. You used all the flavorings... as listed... and overflavored everything by over 3 times (20mL vs. 67mL).
or
2. You adjusted the recipe for 20mL, and didn't reflect that in your post. In which case; it should look like this (PG, VG, and nic not adjusted for your ingredients):
View attachment 807495
Or
3. You did something else that you haven't mentioned.

Exactly right mate. I did the 2. point.
I just posted the exact recipe as I thought 20ml or 60 ml - the way to taper off the caramel would be the same.
Apologies for the confusion fellas.

 

[Opinionated]

I am an idiot, I posted the pic of One-Shot/Concentrate instead of the adaptation.
I am pretty certain, I followed the percentages from the screen shot you posted.

Do you remember how much banana you used?

 

[Opinionated]

I am an idiot, I posted the pic of One-Shot/Concentrate instead of the adaptation.
I am pretty certain, I followed the percentages from the screen shot you posted.

Well, it's also possible you vaped a one shot concentrate too..

You might try diluting it and see what you did, because a drop or two extra caramel really shouldn't blow your entire recipe.

 

[Hbuddha]

Well, it's also possible you vaped a one shot concentrate too..

You might try diluting it and see what you did, because a drop or two extra caramel really shouldn't blow your entire recipe.

Agreed. Uhmm.. so.. how do I dilute it ? Is there a formula for it ? Or just chuck in 10 grams of VG and hope for the best ?

 

[muth]

@Hbuddha looks like you got a lot of great help here. If you're using ELR you might want to take a peek at the flavors and their median percentages. If I remember correctly, 14.95% of Caramel (FLV) would blow the top of my skull off! Lol.

 

[IDJoel]

Also, just as a side thought; I don't know how many other flavors you may have substituted, besides the FLV Mocha (I know FLV doesn't make a Caramel Mocha). But, flavors (one brand, compared to another) are often not a 1:1 exchange... both in flavor and strength.

There is no harm (risk of hurting one's self). But, know that the result will taste different. For example; if you were to swap the DIY Coffee (which is a relatively weak concentrate), for say FA Coffee Espresso (which is much more potent) at the same percentage, the resulting mixture could well taste like chewing on a used coffee filter complete with spent grounds.

When your are subbing ingredients, and asking for advice; it is a good idea to mention all subs (both brand and correct concentrate name), in order to get the most appropriate/helpful advice.

Also, Posting the recipe the way you actually mixed it (ingredients and percentages actually used) is more informative to the readers wanting to help, vs. just sharing the original recipe prior to adaptation.

Agreed. Uhmm.. so.. how do I dilute it ? Is there a formula for it ? Or just chuck in 10 grams of VG and hope for the best ?

As it stands now; I am not sure what you really mixed (flavorshot, 20mL reduced recipe, something else),
And, therefore, don't know how to suggest you proceed.

I'm sorry; I don't mean to be difficult. I just don't want to give bad advice and have you wasting more ingredients.

 

[DeloresRose]

I’m a little confused too about exactly what you mixed. But I’ll say this, no matter how bad my juice is, I don’t pitch it until it’s 4 weeks steeped. Might not help in this case, so don’t get your hopes up, but you’ll never know if you don’t try.

Meanwhile, back to the drawing board. I’d either get the exact brands/flavors for that recipe or find another recipe.

And I do sub flavors, but I know, from testing them solo, pretty much which can be subbed for which and whether I’ll need more, less, or the same amount.

 

[Opinionated]

Agreed. Uhmm.. so.. how do I dilute it ? Is there a formula for it ? Or just chuck in 10 grams of VG and hope for the best ?

Just use the total flavor percentage.. in this case it's 6.7%

So make up a batch using 6.7% of what you made here as your flavoring, and see if that fixes it..

 

[stols001]

I would go the dilution route personally (IF in fact you mixed what you think you did, I am far from sure.) What I am 100% certain of is that I have learned a TON more about DIY by trying to fix my failed mixes than by just tossing them. I have a rule about it now.

I will say the one exception to that rule was the time I accidentally combined a margarita mix and a gin and tonic mix in THE same bottle... I just tossed that 60 ml because seriously, I couldn't even THINK about a way to improve it. I'm glad I did, too.

Go with YU gut.

Anna