How to lead with regulated devices

[21Vapes]

Hi, this is my first post here, 4 years of vaping, runing a alien with 4 LG HG2 and a bellus.
Question is, I'm always studying vaping in general, and Mooch says that for regulated devices for ex, the alien 220w with two LG2 we should not pass the 100W, and the resistance doesn't matter, whoever, with a 26g Kanthal A1, parallel 6/7 wraps on a 2.4mm, reading 0.19 ohms at 60w the temperature get's up way more faster than a normal 10 wraps at 0.6ohms at the same power level. Why does the temperature get's very high way more fast with a low build if the resistance doesn't matter and just the power?
Thanks and vape on!

 

[Aus11]

We shouldnt use the Alien with HG2S at above 100? Is it just in the interest of temperature? Cause I use it at 160w but my hits are far enough apart to where the board never reads past 32 C

 

[21Vapes]

We shouldnt use the Alien with HG2S at above 100? Is it just in the interest of temperature? Cause I use it at 160w but my hits are far enough apart to where the board never reads past 32 C

No, because of the HG2 being a 20Amp Battery.
32? mine with 3-4 secs hits past pass the 44, like with a 0.18 build
How many secs you are taking a hit, on avg?
Here you can see a table for regulated mods where the nums means the power, and the "1,2,3,4" colums means the number of batteries being used

 

[IMFire3605]

The limit with the HG2/Alien 220W combo being 100watts max is due to the Alien 220W has a battery cutoff of 2.8 to 2.9v per battery compared to most other mod manufacturers the cutoff voltage is 3.0 to 3.2v, generally 3.2v per battery.

Being a series mod, we get voltage X number of batteries, but the same mah and CDR of a single battery, 2.9v X 2 = 5.8v lowest voltage in the Alien 220W

Using the Ohm's/Watt's Law, as with a regulated mod its the Watts not the Ohm's that determine amperage, and the highest amperage is at lowest voltage supply, and not all regulated mods are 100% efficient, with an efficiency range of 85% (DNA75) up to 97% (DNA166/200), most average at 90% efficiency

Watts Set/Lowest Battery Voltage Supply/Mod Efficiency Rating = maximum amps

110watts Set/5.8v Supply/90% Efficiency = 21.0728 maximum amps
100watts Set/5.8v Supply/90% Efficiency = 19.1571 maximum amps

Ohms on a regulated device only come into play in 2 instances, first the mod reads the resistance to determine if the resistance is in its pre-programmed range of operation, generally on newer mods like the Alien this is 0.10ohms up to 3.0ohms, if the resistance is outside the range it is programmed it kicks a resistance error in the example of below 0.10 at 0.09ohms, or tries to adjust to maximum voltage in the case of a 3.0ohm coil. Second instance is the mod takes that reading and adjusts the output voltage to reach the set watts. After that, Ohms have no other bearing with a regulated mod.

The difference in heat that you are noticing between the 6/7wrap and the 10/9 wrap coils are quite simple, less wire mass to heat up, and due to being less resistance, the flow of electrons is greater and the coil just keeps ramping up in temperature further and further, where the 0.6ohm 10/9 wrap coil there is more mass and more resistance so takes longer to heat up and continues to heat up much slower.

 

[sonicbomb]

We shouldnt use the Alien with HG2S at above 100? Is it just in the interest of temperature? Cause I use it at 160w but my hits are far enough apart to where the board never reads past 32 C

The board temperature is not what you have to worry about....

 

[Smoke_too_much]

what IMFire said.

 

[Aus11]

No, because of the HG2 being a 20Amp Battery.
32? mine with 3-4 secs hits past pass the 44, like with a 0.18 build
How many secs you are taking a hit, on avg?
Here you can see a table for regulated mods where the nums means the power, and the "1,2,3,4" colums means the number of batteries being usedView attachment 670599

ok, thats a very useful chart. I feel like for safety I will use my GX350 for my TFV8 and 12 due to it having 4 HG2s. I guess next time I buy batteries I can look at HB2 and HB6s so I can run higher wattage and feel better with it. Alien can run my Baby Beast and TFV4.

 

[djsvapour]

Wow. 30Q x 2 can do 120 watts.

I should be OK on 44w then.

Thanks to @21Vapes - nice chart there.

 

[BrotherBob]

Hi, this is my first post here, 4 years of vaping, runing a alien with 4 LG HG2 and a bellus.
Question is, I'm always studying vaping in general, and Mooch says that for regulated devices for ex, the alien 220w with two LG2 we should not pass the 100W, and the resistance doesn't matter, whoever, with a 26g Kanthal A1, parallel 6/7 wraps on a 2.4mm, reading 0.19 ohms at 60w the temperature get's up way more faster than a normal 10 wraps at 0.6ohms at the same power level. Why does the temperature get's very high way more fast with a low build if the resistance doesn't matter and just the power?
Thanks and vape on!

Welcome and glad you joined.

 

[21Vapes]

The limit with the HG2/Alien 220W combo being 100watts max is due to the Alien 220W has a battery cutoff of 2.8 to 2.9v per battery compared to most other mod manufacturers the cutoff voltage is 3.0 to 3.2v, generally 3.2v per battery.

Being a series mod, we get voltage X number of batteries, but the same mah and CDR of a single battery, 2.9v X 2 = 5.8v lowest voltage in the Alien 220W

Using the Ohm's/Watt's Law, as with a regulated mod its the Watts not the Ohm's that determine amperage, and the highest amperage is at lowest voltage supply, and not all regulated mods are 100% efficient, with an efficiency range of 85% (DNA75) up to 97% (DNA166/200), most average at 90% efficiency

Watts Set/Lowest Battery Voltage Supply/Mod Efficiency Rating = maximum amps

110watts Set/5.8v Supply/90% Efficiency = 21.0728 maximum amps
100watts Set/5.8v Supply/90% Efficiency = 19.1571 maximum amps

Ohms on a regulated device only come into play in 2 instances, first the mod reads the resistance to determine if the resistance is in its pre-programmed range of operation, generally on newer mods like the Alien this is 0.10ohms up to 3.0ohms, if the resistance is outside the range it is programmed it kicks a resistance error in the example of below 0.10 at 0.09ohms, or tries to adjust to maximum voltage in the case of a 3.0ohm coil. Second instance is the mod takes that reading and adjusts the output voltage to reach the set watts. After that, Ohms have no other bearing with a regulated mod.

The difference in heat that you are noticing between the 6/7wrap and the 10/9 wrap coils are quite simple, less wire mass to heat up, and due to being less resistance, the flow of electrons is greater and the coil just keeps ramping up in temperature further and further, where the 0.6ohm 10/9 wrap coil there is more mass and more resistance so takes longer to heat up and continues to heat up much slower.

Man, really thank you, within hours I can have a answer like this describing all that good stuff explained so damn well! Now I realize how forums are great to discuss, and I'm not saying that facebook groups and others aren't good, but this, this is the real deal! Thanks for very good people share this same passion as I do that get us out of stickies!

 

[21Vapes]

The board temperature is not what you have to worry about....

What is it?

 

[21Vapes]

what IMFire said.

Yeah, that guy is a beast!

 

[IMFire3605]

NP, I am a firm believer in the only stupid question is the one never asked, there is a lot of confusion between Ohm's Law of Voltage/Ohms=Amps on a mech/unregulated compared to the Watt's Formula used for a regulated, it also helps to show the formula with examples relevant to what the end user OP is using to give a better grasp. Everything else is from my own experience and trial and error, knowledge is power and should be freely given and/or available I believe. Otherwise everyone would be having pocket fires while standing in line at a gas station checkout register, or other avoidable, sad outcome.

 

[21Vapes]

ok, thats a very useful chart. I feel like for safety I will use my GX350 for my TFV8 and 12 due to it having 4 HG2s. I guess next time I buy batteries I can look at HB2 and HB6s so I can run higher wattage and feel better with it. Alien can run my Baby Beast and TFV4.

Yeah, otherwise you can go for greater Amperage batteries with 10amps with like 3100+amps for like, 3 days of battery!
The chart was made by one of the greatest youtuber of the portuguese vaping community, the guy is knew by O Poderoso Vapor, he posts stuff like IMFire did but more summarized. He is a mathematician(math teacher) and he explains very well! Sorry for my english, hehehe.

 

[21Vapes]

Wow. 30Q x 2 can do 120 watts.

I should be OK on 44w then.

Thanks to @21Vapes - nice chart there.

Hoped I helped with that chart made by O Poderoso Vapor!

 

[21Vapes]

Welcome and glad you joined.

Very thankful for being part of this community now! Thanks all ecf members!

 

[21Vapes]

NP, I am a firm believer in the only stupid question is the one never asked, there is a lot of confusion between Ohm's Law of Voltage/Ohms=Amps on a mech/unregulated compared to the Watt's Formula used for a regulated, it also helps to show the formula with examples relevant to what the end user OP is using to give a better grasp. Everything else is from my own experience and trial and error, knowledge is power and should be freely given and/or available I believe. Otherwise everyone would be having pocket fires while standing in line at a gas station checkout register, or other avoidable, sad outcome.

I already knew ot the different application on the ohms law in mech vs regulated, but I didn't realized that it was the less wire mass, the quickly the temp will get hotter. Surely make your words my own!
Do you advise some limit temp of the PCB?

 

[IMFire3605]

On my DNA mods I set a temp for the PCB to not go over 120 to 130F (49C to 54C), as they are tempermental when very hot and can burn out quicker. I live in a Sonoran Desert so have to watch the PCB temps religiously to keep my mods in working order.

 

[21Vapes]

On my DNA mods I set a temp for the PCB to not go over 120 to 130F (49C to 54C), as they are tempermental when very hot and can burn out quicker. I live in a Sonoran Desert so have to watch the PCB temps religiously to keep my mods in working order.

I live in Terceira island, middle of the Atlantic Ocean, by the summer it gets avg temp being 24°, 25°C, but because It's a 400 square km round island the humidity levels are always between 90% to 100%, and that my friend, can frack the hardware really fast

 

[quanghieu]

WOw