How to protect your Mod designs without paying for a Patent

[Java_Az]

Since there has been quite a bit of discussion about Patents lately, I thought i would bring up a Alternative for those of us that cant pay the high dollars for the patent process. Open source Hardware licenses are free. It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design. What you have to do is make a web page with your design schematics have the open source hardware license on that page. Once that web page is published on the internet anyone after that date trying to steal your idea is going to have a bad day in court. This does not however stop people from using your idea. Like open source software you are pretty much saying anyone can make my design commercially or you can make the license to say only non commercial reproduction is allowed. But they cannot market your idea as a original.

I am still pretty new to the open source hardware stuff i researched it little bit as a alternative to patenting my ideas Since your looking at quite a bit of money to go threw that process. After thinking about it i really dont mind if someone else starts making my ideas. I see PV's as life sav........whoops almost said saving the FDA wouldn't like that. What i mean is they are life changing devices. The better we can build and improve Pv's the more folks can have life changing experiences.

Since i read someone said they are not going to post anymore ideas in here because it seems like some suppliers are trying to monopolize or maybe patent other folks ideas. I see this as a solution to protect your idea from others that might claim it as their own. It is too bad it has come to this.

So basically all we would need is a website to post our designs to protect them. I will look and see if there are any good DNS names available. BUT FIRST i need your opinions on this. Either way i will publish my stuff open source really i comes down to how to make the web site and if i can get some help. IF it is just for me i will do a basic little web site. But if the mod community thinks this is a good idea i would go for more of a community web site that anyone can post up there ideas. SO Let ME know what you think

 

[drewk302]

to bad registered suppliers couldnt be blocked from the modders section. That may help somewhat. If thats causing an issue.

 

[SurvivorMcGyver]

We've got a website -- It's called ECF EH?

 

[Java_Az]

to bad registered suppliers couldnt be blocked from the modders section. That may help somewhat. If thats causing an issue.

They could just surf the section not logged in to bypass the block

We've got a website -- It's called ECF EH?

Pretty sure posting in a forum wont count. But i could be wrong i still need to do more research on the matter.

 

[bidibulle]

Hello,
tres bonne idées ces protections d'inventions,
ça fait deux années que j'utilise un reservoir "plug and play" avec des joints d'étanchéité indestructible et qui demande que 10% d'usinage utilisable sur tous atomizer ,cartomizer,clearo (9.2mm diametre),
si je post cette astuce,sa me derangerai pas que les personnes l'utilisent,mais que sa soit vendu a prix d'or alors que le prix de base d'un seul reservoir pres a etre utilisé de depaserai pas 5euros usinage (10%)compris.....
simple,efficace,peu couteux au depart,mais le gros jackpot en grosse serie!!!

translation:

Hello,
very good ideas such protections for inventions,
it's been two years since I use a tank "plug and play with seals indestructible, and which requires that 10% machining,used on all atomizer, cartomizer, clearo (9.2mm diameter)
if I post this trick, its not mind if people use it, but its price has either sold gold while the base price of a single tank ready to be not exceed 5euros used for machining(10% ) included .....
Simple, effective, inexpensive to begin with, but the jackpot in the big series!

 

[MagnusEunson]

Since there has been quite a bit of discussion about Patents lately, I thought i would bring up a Alternative for those of us that cant pay the high dollars for the patent process. Open source Hardware licenses are free. It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design.

Unfortunately it really wouldn't. Just like enforcing the GPL or Apache licenses in FOSS space has been difficult... or like the poor folks who depend on a 'poor-man's patent' filing notion. For that matter defending a patent is non-trivial as well. Quite possibly the best simple advice is:

- Keep dated consolidated records of your idea, the growth of it, and your use of it. Notarize at key intervals in your idea's pathway.

- Build and sell it at least to one customer before anybody else gets a chance. And publicly discuss that sale and again keep records.

Now... with that said. Using an FOSSH/FLOSC license might have the advantage of free advocacy if you somehow tie it into existing Open Source communities. And if you build quite the fanbase your 'enforcement' would be through customer-base anger and public response.

While you're going down this route make sure to read ALL of Open-source hardware - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia and in the references section the specifics bits linking back to ESR's questioning of the TAPR license (reference 14 at this time). And you'll notice all the unpleasant references to Patent law throughout the whole mess.

One other thought... some of the mod designers might want to pool together a few hours worth of Intellectual Property lawyer monies to discuss their predicament. I can refer people to IP lawyers in Florida and CT that I've worked with professionally in the past. I might be able to extend the free consultation time frames too.. who knows. I'd be interested in seeing how your plans play out. -Magnus

 

[Al Bundy]

I seriously doubt making the design open source offers any protection whatsoever. You would still need to defend the open source against companies who will flat out steal or use the design. This of course will cost money and therefore defeat the purpose.

If you're intent on actually pursuing a patent, the obvious route is to file a provisional patent, push for venture capital and then file the full patent within a year. This route will save you the money filing a full patent if you can't find any investors.

 

[Gummy Bear]

Well more to the point, You can't put the crap back into the horse. Unless the patent application process has a section for protesting an application.

"Conotocaurious" has destroyed the modders willingness to share anything here (other than a bad joke) or perhaps some help to troubleshoot something. No more Ga-du-gi

destroyed past participle, past tense of de·stroy (Verb)
1. Put an end to the existence of (something) by damaging or attacking it.
2. Completely ruin or spoil (something). More »
Wikipedia - Merriam-Webster - The Free Dictionary

 

[Gummy Bear]

I seriously doubt making the design open source offers any protection whatsoever. You would still need to defend the open source against companies who will flat out steal or use the design. This of course will cost money and therefore defeat the purpose.

If you're intent on actually pursuing a patent, the obvious route is to file a provisional patent, push for venture capital and then file the full patent within a year. This route will save you the money filing a full patent if you can't find any investors.

But as the OP said "It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design. "

That is what all this is about, plain and simple.

 

[MagnusEunson]

But as the OP said "It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design. "

That is what all this is about, plain and simple.

I just don't think it will unless you also do what I said above. Plug computing experienced this in the first generation designs. And that's only a small step more complicated than mods (seriously). -Magnus

 

[Al Bundy]

But as the OP said "It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design. "

That is what all this is about, plain and simple.

And what I said is that the act of publishing the design under an open source license is irrelevant, you still need to enforce the license in court and that will cost money. A company with plenty of capital will toss the license around like a rag doll. The only reason a company would swoop in and steal the design to patent is if the design is worth the patent cost. If this is the case, then there is ABSOLUTELY NO LOGICAL REASON to not file the patent yourself.

 

[retird]

Read an interesting article yesterday about the patent process......basically it said that 95% of all Applications for Patent never get approved. Thus the patent never is issued.....

Heck, I found an Application for Patent on the Patent Office web for an e-cig that was filed in 2006 and is still an active application....never has issued yet....

 

[AttyPops]

Just my guess:

There are so many companies that simply IGNORE international patents and routinely steal each others ideas (Chinese laws are different), that ... unless you invent something that is a totally new/unique expression of an idea and can prove it...., you'd go broke trying to defend it.

I think Magnus nailed it pretty well. Java, your idea is good. It may work... I'm no attorney so IDK. One thing with patents: keep the whole thing secret until you are ready. Some companies search the patents just for ideas to alter/steal as well as checking for conflicts. I'm not sure... but I think that's one reason "patent pending" is so common.... file a patent just before it goes to market, and get to market before the competition... patent or not.

 

[retird]

Oh well, since building mods is a hobby of mine, I enjoy this Modders forum....alot of good info and sharing and (at least for me), it will remain a fun forum.....it is "chilly" in here now, but summer will return.....just my 2-cents...

 

[mwa102464]

Since there has been quite a bit of discussion about Patents lately, I thought i would bring up a Alternative for those of us that cant pay the high dollars for the patent process. Open source Hardware licenses are free. It wont give you any license fees if someone else uses your idea. But it would stop someone with the cash patenting your idea and then turning around and charging you a license fee for making your own design. What you have to do is make a web page with your design schematics have the open source hardware license on that page. Once that web page is published on the internet anyone after that date trying to steal your idea is going to have a bad day in court. This does not however stop people from using your idea. Like open source software you are pretty much saying anyone can make my design commercially or you can make the license to say only non commercial reproduction is allowed. But they cannot market your idea as a original.

I am still pretty new to the open source hardware stuff i researched it little bit as a alternative to patenting my ideas Since your looking at quite a bit of money to go threw that process. After thinking about it i really dont mind if someone else starts making my ideas. I see PV's as life sav........whoops almost said saving the FDA wouldn't like that. What i mean is they are life changing devices. The better we can build and improve Pv's the more folks can have life changing experiences.

Since i read someone said they are not going to post anymore ideas in here because it seems like some suppliers are trying to monopolize or maybe patent other folks ideas. I see this as a solution to protect your idea from others that might claim it as their own. It is too bad it has come to this.

So basically all we would need is a website to post our designs to protect them. I will look and see if there are any good DNS names available. BUT FIRST i need your opinions on this. Either way i will publish my stuff open source really i comes down to how to make the web site and if i can get some help. IF it is just for me i will do a basic little web site. But if the mod community thinks this is a good idea i would go for more of a community web site that anyone can post up there ideas. SO Let ME know what you think

I'm not looking to stir the pot hear or create and argument but not for nothing if I had some new outstanding idea that hasn't ever been designed yet that I could Paten why would I ever openly source it for everyone else to make and sell and steal my idea Java, if it truly where that great and something that could be patent pended you can file a type of patten that protects you for 1 yr that is cheap to do and this gives you time to decide where you want to go from there 1 yr later. It's under $300 to do this process you either move forward or let go of it in a year this is called a provisional I believe.

I think that someone should be rewarded if there creative enough to come up with a design that no one else has ever come up with before and invents something. I happen to have a family member that is a Paten attorney who does a lot of this stuff, a good deal of it is with TV and electronics, it's quite amazing what goes on inside this field and what people actually do to protect there ideas but to openly source an idea that is fantastic enough to apply a Paten pending to would not be something I would do, just my feeling after doing some talking to my cousin who is a Paten Attorney and again just my opinion.

 

[Gummy Bear]

Oh sure it will warm back up after this storm passes.
It will be years before anyone can enforce anything and by then, who knows what the technology will be by then.
I would rather keep it as just a fun hobby but, if people want to make threats that I can't go into the biz of selling my stuff without paying them a strong arm fee, then the next mod you guys see me post will be for sale.

 

[mwa102464]

Agreed Gummy, but the bigger companies out there who need to protect themselves with the bigger products like TV's and other big electrical components that come out yr after year that we buy have reason to protect themselves, is it worth it for a PV, Hmm I'm not so sure about that one, I doubt it unless your planing on a mass production of a few million of the product. only time will tell, as of now has any Paten even been approved for any ecig as of yet ? when I go online and check this I cant find not even one approval,, is there one ? has Hon's even been approved ?

 

[Gummy Bear]

I think that someone should be rewarded if there creative enough to come up with a design that no one else has ever come up with before and invents something. .

If that was all it was here then we would not be having this discussion.

 

[Stownz]

Why is everyone so worried about the patent side of things? Really think that is the key to making money, or stopping someone else from making money on your ideas? In this industry, too many people are worried about the wrong things.

1) NEW, innovative design. We got people trying to patent voltage regulators... Whats next, the screwdriver to adjust it also because no one ever thought of adjusting voltage on an E-cig with a screwdriver? Create something truelly unique, not just a spin off of old tech. If you want to ever see some bad ... modders, go on over to the candlepower forums. Those guys and their flashlights make us all look like idiots. Are they all trying to patent every plug in they come up with to corner the market? nah

2) Make a QUALITY product. Something that lasts, is durable, can hit concrete without breaking. Something that can have E-juice pored on it and it doesn't die. People can steal your ideas all they want, but can they undercut your prices and still build a PV to high standards?

3)Build a great company. Take care of your customers, and they will take care of you. Ignore design flaws, and people will ignore you.

4)Let the prices drop, skip the proprietary threads. You may very well come up with a great design, super original, game changing, but remember the state of this industry. We need great PVs in the hands of as many smokers as we can, so the love of being smoke free can spread. If someone opensourced the idea for an atty that last forever, they would loose a lot of money, but the entire population of vaporers would multiply. You may want to capitalize on the idea, but you very well may be capitalizing on something that will be banned in every country on the planet soon. We have too much proprietary crap being peddled right now, there is no wonder we don't have more support then we do now. Average user has to spend over $500 to find that super sexy combination that makes him forget all about cigs and becomes a crusader for vaping.

 

[Bubo]

Average user has to spend over $500 to find that super sexy combination that makes him forget all about cigs and becomes a crusader for vaping.

Waaayy past that!