I don't believe e-cigs are safe.........

[swedishfish]

I'll be vaping next week, when I get my equipment. I plan to vape outside as I have smoked only outside for 25years. My strategy is not to give myself the "freedom" to let vaping get out of hand, as I eventually want to get off nicotine completely, and use the vaping only when I want a "sit down, relax" time. I also have eight birds, and I'm not going to expose them to anything that I don't have to...birds have extremely sensitive respiratory systems. My daughter who was the main reason for my outside smoking, is grown and gone. I've not researched the safety of inside vaping, so this thread is interesting, to say the least....

Don't let this thread dissuade you from vaping. Where you chose to do it is up to you.

Again, the thread title is idiotic. (Sorry OP but it is). And it's irritating - just the title alone, and look how many hits the thread got. Because someone has a reaction to something doesn't mean it's "NOT SAFE". It's an irritant to that particular person. My last dog was allergic to grass. It would be the same thing as me running around saying GRASS IS NOT SAFE!!!

It's no more or less harmful that nicotine gum or a nicotine patch. The only difference is this works. Honestly, some people can complicate an empty room.

 

[SharonCC]

I wasn't meaning that I was not going to start with the PV....I have decided to do that, as a means of getting rid of the cigarette. I'm going to choose to vape outside because I don't want too much freedom with it. I'm not saying that freedom to vape is a bad thing...it's just that I would like to see myself free of everything eventually. I'm not that concerned with whether it's safe or not at the moment...it's better than smoking the cigarettes.

 

[earthpig]

It is commendable you are off cigs and even are running at no or low nic.
Good going.
It just needs put into perspective from a safety standpoint. The e-cig is so much more exponentially safe than a real cig, that it is quite an amazing invention.
Although it always must be said, that these are "Harm Reduction" not "Harm Elimination". A big jump, but the only method of harm elimination is just breathing clean air, (if it can be found, and it really can't.).

So it sounds like I'm playing both sides....It's safe....it's only harm reduction....
In essence it's a massive improvement.

 

[swedishfish]

I wasn't meaning that I was not going to start with the PV....I have decided to do that, as a means of getting rid of the cigarette. I'm going to choose to vape outside because I don't want too much freedom with it. I'm not saying that freedom to vape is a bad thing...it's just that I would like to see myself free of everything eventually. I'm not that concerned with whether it's safe or not at the moment...it's better than smoking the cigarettes.

No, I know you weren't. Best of luck vaping! It is definitely much better than smoking.

 

[wv2win]

Don't let this thread dissuade you from vaping. Where you chose to do it is up to you.

Again, the thread title is idiotic. (Sorry OP but it is). And it's irritating - just the title alone, and look how many hits the thread got. Because someone has a reaction to something doesn't mean it's "NOT SAFE". It's an irritant to that particular person. My last dog was allergic to grass. It would be the same thing as me running around saying GRASS IS NOT SAFE!!!

It's no more or less harmful that nicotine gum or a nicotine patch. The only difference is this works. Honestly, some people can complicate an empty room....

I love that last sentence! Nice one, swedishfish!!

 

[swedishfish]

I love that last sentence! Nice one, swedishfish!!

My Dad used to always say that.

He had a lot of old sayings, many from when he was in the military. But I'd probably get banned if I posted some of them.

 

[Nikkie1476]

Katiecat - It sounds like your doing the best thing for you and your son. Good luck.

 

[wv2win]

My Dad used to always say that.

He had a lot of old sayings, many from when he was in the military. But I'd probably get banned if I posted some of them.

Hats off to your Dad and our military. Just about everyone in our family served going back to the Civil War and I also have some "passed down" phases that would get me censored. It's funny how some acronyms, many out of WWII, that have become common place, that if spelled out would be frowned upon. Such as SNAFU and to a lesser degree, FUBAR.

 

[AttyPops]

Good for you Katiecat.

P.S. Don't worry about the title. Besides... I complicate every empty room I've been in....... lol. And if I didn't go into it, I wouldn't know it was empty! Sry SF. lol.

Her point is well made..... all sorts of things "not safe" then. Life isn't safe. Still, good that you vape outside (in your case).

 

[SharonCC]

The point is well made. We often take for granted that products are safe, just because it lies within certain boundaries. .... Most cleaners, Febreeze, Teflon pans, and on and on...we basically have to make our own choices, and hope for the best.

katiecat, good for you for noticing and reacting. There's no such thing as too careful!

 

[earthpig]

And remember, SharonCC , no matter how safe we try and be...
Sometimes you get the bear....sometimes the bear gets you.

 

[cookiebun]

Interesting thread.
I'd never vape around children.
I vape inside around my husband. He's said most juices have no smell. There's only been one that he said burned his eyes.

 

[earthpig]

Then there might (for him) be some truth to that particular flavor.
An allergen.

 

[jamminloud]

I'm not condoning any of this, but we sure have come a long way. Mom and Dad used to smoke in the car while I was jumping around in the back seat. The seatbelts were all stuffed under the seats. They used to take me with them to nightclubs when no babysitter could be found. Dad would even let me take a sip of beer on occasion. No helmets or pads for any activity we did except football at school. Wide open trampoline's, lawn darts, BB guns, slingshots, bows and arrows, and yes, even real guns. They were not bad parents, it was what everyone accepted. Miracle I'm alive. But I'm pretty tough.

 

[earthpig]

jam..
Normal stuff.
I used to sleep in the back car window on road trips, and a bicycle helmet? What the H>>> is that about?
In cars I (by law) now need to be strapped in and have a bag blow up in my face, in the event of a 10mph collision, or I get fined $120.00 (here) and yet can ride a motorcycle (and did for 40+ years) with the option of no helmet.

It's all for the children...or is it the revenue?

 

[Azcyclefan]

I have always smoked outside real cigs or vaping more due to the smell, plus im a renter so its best.

 

[LeAnn]

I vape around my 5 yr old grandson and he likes the smell, but he always wants something sweet to eat when he smells it LOL. He says it smells like candy!

 

[Old Chemist]

dwarren
They get more nicotine eating their veggies, than you can inhale at them.
Seriously, with the dispersion rate of the vapor anfd the amount you take in and hold into your lungs, the nic level is very minimal.
I get your concerns over vaping around children and respect it, and I'm not making the point for you directly, but it has to be put in it's chemical quantity perspective.
I rarely vape around children myself, unless stealth.

Couldn't agree more. Potatoes, eggplant, tomates - all the plants from nightshade family (tobacco is from the same family) contain nicotine. Exhaled vapor contains minute amounts of nicotine, part of it is already oxidized.
SHV (second hand vape) is, IMHO, negligible, unless someone is allergic to PV/aromas.

 

[DuncanDisordely]

Hats off to your Dad and our military. Just about everyone in our family served going back to the Civil War and I also have some "passed down" phases that would get me censored. It's funny how some acronyms, many out of WWII, that have become common place, that if spelled out would be frowned upon. Such as SNAFU and to a lesser degree, FUBAR.

Lol made me remember one from my helpdesk support days, when a 'dippy' call came through we'd sometimes write PICNIC on the call sheet for the tech, Problem In Chair, Not In Computer

 

[Old Chemist]

Hypothetically speaking, if I were a chemist, it wouldn't matter. Perhaps I am cynical, but I believe that very often research reflects the biases of whoever will fund it and furthermore independent research is often seen as non-credible just by virtue of the fact it is independent, especially if it fails to confirm dominant notions.

Well... you're cynical, right. At least a bit cynical. In my opinion eg Dr Laugesen's studies are really independent and objective.

So pretend I run the exhaled vapor through a mass spectrometer to determine its constituents (qualitative); and then use high performance liquid chromatography to determine how much of each (quantitative) ... what would it mean? Those results would apply to just that particular e-cigarette using that particular e-juice having run through my particular lungs. So anything I put forth would not be generalizable.

If I wrere such a scientist, I'd use GC/MS set As for the second part - right, that's always the biggest problem. But, as you mentioned, we still have statistics (I know, I know - there are lies, bigger lies and statistics ). We can take 20 e-cigs, 10 vapers, 50 e-liquids and after the analysis just calculate the average. That's just 1000 results, no big deal as far as automated GC/MS is concerned.

But what if my results said that the exhaled vapor were even more dangerous than 2nd hand tobacco smoke? (Remember, we're just playing pretend.) What if they showed that the generally-recognized-as-safe (GAS) ingredients in e-juice, when subjected to a hot atomizers become highly carcinogenic substances etc?

Then we would publish the result and quit vaping. Simple?
I wish I could have even a small GC/MS here - I'd love to experiment.

I know what would happen: the e-cig industry would shout me down and I'd be called a crackpot pseudo-scientist etc.

Probably yes - then we would just hide somewhere on a remote Pacific island.

I am still waiting for some more original research on e-cigs. I know there are some under way already. I'd be happy to discuss the results with others - not necessarily scientists.