I don't believe e-cigs are safe.........

[earthpig]

brittany
We do know the flash and burn points of all components used in e-fluids.
They flash and vaporize . There are flavor components that might hit burn, and those are of concern, but even the largest percentage of those are carried off in the substrate which vaporizes at a good 100deg f less.
Cautions are more with flavoring burn points and carto filler burn points, yet they are minimal by any stretch of the imagination compared to cigs.

 

[bassthumper]

A control group study isn't going to happen. For now I'm satisfied with the qualitative evidence available from my own experience and others on ECF.

1 - I can breathe again.
2 - I can taste again.
3 - My throat doesn't feel like a gravel road traversed by a caravan of vikings.
4 - I can exercise again, and without weezing.
5 - I have more energy that I ever remember having.

I'm more than satisfied with my own case study.

EXACTLY.
I know there's no case study however
If my body is telling me something, I listen to it. I'm very in tune with my body. I can cough from one lung or both if I so choose, etc. Some people can do that and don't ask me how, I just do. I can sense certain things in my physical self. Usually if something is wrong, I can "tell" what it is.
So if my body is feeling 200% healthier than when I was smoking- and I vape my head off daily- that's my body telling me that what I'm doing is WAY safer than cigarettes and that in itself is enough evidence for me.
So VAPE ON!

 

[Old Chemist]

How do we know e-cig vapor doesn't contain acrolein?

Usually, in the lab, I make it by adding sodium bisulfate to glycerin; and heating it over a burner and collecting it using a distillation apparatus. However, acrolein is simply an aldehyde resulting from the removal of a water molecule from an alcohol (in this case glycerol, which is an alcohol). Is it possible that passing glycerol over a red-hot wire could create a certain amount of acrolein?

It is possible that glycerin turns into acrolein, but the degree of conversion would be negligible. Why? Because the vapor goes too quickly over the heater and the heater doesn't necessarily go red during that time (it's being cooled by the vapor).
In my opinion the amount of acrolein would be much smaller that during meat roasting.

For example, one synthesis simply heats glycerol in the presence of iron as a catalyst. Does the wire of the atomizer contain any iron?

Right, but it requires time... vapor doesn't stay there.

Glycerol is just one ingredient that we know about, but we really do NOT know what happens when it is heated and you can't measure acrolein formation from exhaled vapor.

The amount of acrolein was measured in the vapor before inhalation, and it was negligible (I'll fins the source and publish it here). There can't be more acrolein in the exhaled vapor, right?

Guess why? Because the acrolein combines with water in your lungs to re-form glycerin. So you breathe in acrolein, and breath out glycerin; and you can't detect what happened in exhaled vapor.

NOOOOOO! Hydration of acrolein requires at least some acid - eg. sulfuric. There's no such chemical in the vapor. Additionally, it requires temperature, higher than ambient temp.

Simple fifth grade experiment. Take sulfur and iron filings and put them in a crucible. Now heat them while stirring and -- shazam -- you get a whole new substance -- iron sulfate. Heat changes things.

Are you sure that it's iron sulfate (FeSO₄)? All my life I thought that it is iron sulfide (approx. FeS).

Again, I'm not saying that definitely anything bad emanates from an e-cig; just saying that there are limits to the knowledge imho. I'm sure it is safer than an analog; but wouldn't call it safe.

OK, I agree with that. E-cigs are not safe, they're safer.

 

[aple]

Are you using PG or VG ejuice. PG irritates some peoples lungs & throat. Some are allergic to PG. You might want to test just using a VG ejuice if you feel comfortable about putting your son through one more test.

The only e-cig juice I can find is PG and VG. Can someone help educate me on the kinds that don't have PG or VG in them?

 

[Katiecat]

Lol made me remember one from my helpdesk support days, when a 'dippy' call came through we'd sometimes write PICNIC on the call sheet for the tech, Problem In Chair, Not In Computer

Back in the days when my husband worked technical support, he loved to tell this one story about an idiot customer. I can't remember the details since it was such a long time ago. But the basic story was this woman called and complained that her computer wasn't turning on. He went down a list of possible problems a mile long, and still this woman's computer wouldn't turn on. It was finally discovered that there was a power outage. She knew she didn't have electricity, but she couldn't understand how that had anything to do with her computer True story.

 

[earthpig]

pg/vg are your basic bas materials. pg is predominate.
............
Old Chemist.
Excellent points.

 

[Old Chemist]

The only e-cig juice I can find is PG and VG. Can someone help educate me on the kinds that don't have PG or VG in them?

There's one more solvent used - PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol). Alas, it's quite rare.

 

[DuncanDisordely]

Back in the days when my husband worked technical support, he loved to tell this one story about an idiot customer. I can't remember the details since it was such a long time ago. But the basic story was this woman called and complained that her computer wasn't turning on. He went down a list of possible problems a mile long, and still this woman's computer wouldn't turn on. It was finally discovered that there was a power outage. She knew she didn't have electricity, but she couldn't understand how that had anything to do with her computer True story.

I once had to guide a lady through an installation remotely, and I asked her to close all her open windows before I remoted in - she replied "They're already closed...we have air conditioning..."


Anyway enough of this I could go on and on, I am sorry for hijacking the thread!

 

[Old Chemist]

I once had to guide a lady through an installation remotely, and I asked her to close all her open windows before I remoted in - she replied "They're already closed...we have air conditioning..."

LOL - wonderful!!!

 

[brittanyNI]

NOOOOOO! Hydration of acrolein requires at least some acid - eg. sulfuric. There's no such chemical in the vapor. Additionally, it requires temperature, higher than ambient temp.

Not true. As an experiment, make some acrolein and leave it in an uncovered beaker on a humid day.

Are you sure that it's iron sulfate (FeSO₄)? All my life I thought that it is iron sulfide (approx. FeS).

You're right! (sticks out tongue and grins)

Even so, I would still use hplc for quantitative in preference to gc; but that's just because my equipment is strange. Hey, I should just be happy I don't have to go back to making my own plates for thin later chromatography. Remember that?

OK, I agree with that. E-cigs are not safe, they're safer.

That's all I'm sayin'. And after all, I'm not interested in a world sans risk anyway. A world without risks would likely also be a world without rewards!

The fact that some risk may exist certainly didn't deter me from smoking analogs so it doesn't stop me from using e-cigs either.

Since you've obviously looked at this more closely than I have, though, I concede your points.

 

[Critter Man]

There's one more solvent used - PEG-400 (polyethylene glycol). Alas, it's quite rare.

It's probably rare because many people have the same reservation I do: What is the likelihood that polyethelene glycol could break down to ethylene glycol during the vaping process? I imagine the percentage would be very small and the quantities harmless, but still...

 

[Old Chemist]

Not true. As an experiment, make some acrolein and leave it in an uncovered beaker on a humid day.

Unfortunately, I don't have access to the lab... sigh. I believe you of course. Tell me - how long does it take to convert acrolein to glycerin in open air?

Even so, I would still use hplc for quantitative in preference to gc; but that's just because my equipment is strange. Hey, I should just be happy I don't have to go back to making my own plates for thin later chromatography. Remember that?

The reason I'd choose GC is - it mimics (to some extent) the process of vaporisation of e-liquid. I guess both methods could be used parallelly and the results compared.
Plates for TLC... oh, that was really something. Thick slurry, preading on glass, drying, activation. I have to admit I wasn't very good at it. I was so happy when plates became comercially available, especially preparative ones.

That's all I'm sayin'. And after all, I'm not interested in a world sans risk anyway. A world without risks would likely also be a world without rewards!

True, true...
BTW - it's so nice to exchange thoughts with someone that knows that TLC not necessarily stands for tender loving care.

 

[rolygate]

PEG probably accounts for less than 1% of bottled refills, but it may comprise up to 33% of the liquid ingredient in prefilled cartos. That percentage has started to decline now, though.

 

[silkakc]

Katiecat,

One big way that our vapor is different than cigarette smoke is that it's water based. If you blow Ecig vapor through a cotton cloth, almost nothing comes out the other side. It does make the cloth very wet though If you blow ciggy smoke through a cloth, all of it comes out the other side! Ive found that if I double layer a cotton t shirt, no vapor at all comes through it when I exhale. A single ply t shirt catches about 75% of the vapor, it looks like to me.
Just thought I'd mention that to you because you could remove the floating vapor in your house by doing that.

Lori

 

[jonathanxx]

I started vaping last week and since 3 days my 3 months old daughter haves a runny eyes.
It's almost like if she haves a conjunctivitis.
I don't know if it could be related to my vaping but i start to think yes.

 

[Pepe Le Vapse]

Overall I think vaping is safe. Granted reactions will happen. I have noticed when I vape more PG vs VG my nose dries out to the point I feel like a scab is forming in there. Still I feel so much better since I have stopped the analogs. Food tastes better, my house, car and clothes doesn't smell like a ashtray, I can walk a flight of stairs without being out of breath. My Girlfriend enjoys kissing me more often, the list goes on.

 

[Temporal Fugitive]

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but it looks like the chances of getting ethylene glycol from PEG-400 are the same as getting it from PG. Maybe even slimmer, cause you'd have to cleave PEG of both its termini and then combine them

 

[adubs]

I have a severe allergy to corn...in fact, I have to use an epi-pen if I eat it. I do not use any juice with VG because I have no idea which vegatables are used to make it. I can't go to the movies because even the smell of popcorn makes my chest tighten up and I have to use my inhaler (with PG in it). I know we do not have all the facts on e-cigs yet but I do know that I feel so much better than I did when I was smoking 1-1 1/2 PAD and for me that speaks volumes.

 

[txtumbleweed]

I know my breathing is 100 % better than when I smoked so that is good enough for me. I no longer have to use an inhaler to get my breath back after walking up stairs. I no longer cough and wheeze and I haven't had a single cold in two years either although I have been exposed many times.