I guess I'm going to have to die sooner than I thought.

[jpargana]

Easy to answer - because cigarettes stink, taste horrible and give me bronchitis.

That said I took your remark as a joke.... at least I hope it was a joke.

Unfortunately, you will soon discover it was not.

 

[jpargana]

(does anyone see the irony in that?)

 

[jpargana]

I see... well I sincerely hope you will not be offended if I choose to ignore the issue with all it's angles and arguments and allegations. I have a roast in the oven and much to do here.

 

[jpargana]

the jury said smelling bags can cause popcorn lung.
i for one can't find out whom discovered it as an issue in the factory's other than references
to certain government agencies. they went there and discovered OB. how?
what led them to that conclusion. prior to the microwave popcorn stuff
OB was the result of lung transplant rejection. i seem to recall when this
was all transpiring some if not many believed popcorn lung was just
misdiagnosed COPD as most of those affected had significant histories
of smoking. i can't seem to find any references on the net but the heavy
smoking part i have found in government publications. the smoking part
seems to be overlooked in a lot of the subsequent literature.
regards
mike

Just like that "lipoid pneumonia" scare... one of the guys smoked for almost 30 years before vaping.

"Logically", the ONLY culprit for his illness was the e-cig he was using for only a month and and half.

 

[jpargana]

What does "truly" mean? It is a highly subjective requirement to use diketones or for that matter, one step further: to use flavors for vaping.

I have been vaping for two years now. And two days ago, I switched to completely flavorless vaping (after months using just a little bit of flavor while reading about DA, AP & Co.).

I feel cheated. Who said that flavors are a must, a "requirement" for liquids? Actually, nobody. But the whole vaping industry suggests that artificial flavoring is inherent to vaping, nobody offers ready-to-vape base as an option the way they offer flavored liquids. I did not know that it is possible to vape "naked" nicotine base until I read about people who did it. Up to that point, it never occurred to me that this could be an option at all. And yes, in this sense, I feel cheated, overall and thoroughly.

Later on, the more I saw how the flavor industry and the shops were unwilling to tell us the ingredients of what we pay for, to enable us to make that „informed choice“, the less I felt inclined to be manipulated this way. The cloud9vaping vs Five Pawns affair was the last drop in an already quite full cup of unwillingness - somehow unwilling to be part of it.

And, once this decision was made, i.e. looking back now, how absurd it was for me, chasing the best possible ADV while actively trying to avoid artificial flavors in my food.

One shoe does not fit all.

I could argue the same about more advanced devices. While I like those today, truth is I managed to quit smoking in a day and an half, more than six years ago, using a small, cigarette-sized Janty Dura-C. (Google that, and see how outdated it is. )

Some of my smoking friends tried my backup setups back then, and *only* managed to quit smoking later, with the arrival of second-generation devices.
According to your line of thought, those friends of mine would still be smoking, because "there's no need for more advanced devices. If *I* managed to quit that way, *everyone* should."
Just because *you* could manage unflavoured liquid after two years (and what would you have done in those first two years, if only unflavoured was available? Return to smoking?), it does not mean that *everyone* (Or even the *majority* of people) would be OK with it.

At this point, I have to ask: why do you even bother to vape? Surelly you have found some jealous ex-smoker who told you should have quit smoking the "right" way - cold turkey, and "taking it like a man" (Assuming that he even regards your vaping as "having quit smoking" in the first place).

Surelly, if cold-turkey was enough for that guy, then it should be enough for you too. Why inhale unflavoured juice, when you could have quitted by inhaling *nothing*? Do you have long-term studies proving without doubt that inhaling PG/VG is 100% harmless?

 

[nebulis]

Some of my smoking friends tried my backup setups back then, and *only* managed to quit smoking later, with the arrival of second-generation devices.
According to your line of thought, those friends of mine would still be smoking, because "there's no need for more advanced devices.

What are yu talking about? How come you think that this is *my* line of thought? I was not talking about devices, first- oder second-generation, at all.

If *I* managed to quit that way, *everyone* should." Just because *you* could manage unflavoured liquid after two years (and what would you have done in those first two years, if only unflavoured was available? Return to smoking?), it does not mean that *everyone* (Or even the *majority* of people) would be OK with it.

Again: what are you talking about? There is no implication at all that everyone should do what I do. Everyone should be well informed: Yes, I think that would be nice.

At this point, I have to ask: why do you even bother to vape? Surelly you have found some jealous ex-smoker who told you should have quit smoking the "right" way - cold turkey, and "taking it like a man" (Assuming that he even regards your vaping as "having quit smoking" in the first place).

My goodness, why are you wasting your time talking about jealous ex-smokers, coming straight out of your imagination? if you feel inspired to answer then stick to my content instead of your insinuating imaginary things I never wrote or thought.

 

[Wow1420]

I just worry that the diketone infested flavorings will go away. Need to get some 4 oz bottles.

Since it's OK for food, I doubt the DIY sources will go away entirely.

 

[VNeil]

Since it's OK for food, I doubt the DIY sources will go away entirely.

You might have missed his point, LOL

 

[Robert Cromwell]

Since it's OK for food, I doubt the DIY sources will go away entirely.

Prolly not but the ones specializing in vaping stuff may stop carrying it.

 

[VNeil]

Prolly not but the ones specializing in vaping stuff may stop carrying it.

You actually bring up an interesting point. Take TFA for example. Would they likely discontinue their Vanilla Custard or just move it over the TPA side? Hmmmm....

 

[Wow1420]

Really I don't know why we even bother with flavouring anything - I mean why wear velvet when sackcloth would do.

Some of us actually like sackcloth, er, unflavored. Like drinking cool spring water compared to {insert beverage of your choice}.

 

[jpargana]

What are yu talking about? How come you think that this is *my* line of thought? I was not talking about devices, first- oder second-generation, at all.



Again: what are you talking about? There is no implication at all that everyone should do what I do. Everyone should be well informed: Yes, I think that would be nice.



My goodness, why are you wasting your time talking about jealous ex-smokers, coming straight out of your imagination? if you feel inspired to answer then stick to my content instead of your insinuating imaginary things I never wrote or thought.

OK, so let's recap your "content", shall we ?

" (...)

I have been vaping for two years now. And two days ago, I switched to completely flavorless vaping (after months using just a little bit of flavor while reading about DA, AP & Co.).

I feel cheated. Who said that flavors are a must, a "requirement" for liquids? Actually, nobody. But the whole vaping industry suggests that artificial flavoring is inherent to vaping, nobody offers ready-to-vape base as an option the way they offer flavored liquids. I did not know that it is possible to vape "naked" nicotine base until I read about people who did it. Up to that point, it never occurred to me that this could be an option at all. And yes, in this sense, I feel cheated, overall and thoroughly.
(...)"

So, *you* feel cheated, because unflavoured liquid was enough for *you*, and therefore vendors have been "cheating" people by putting "unnecessary" flavours (your opinion) in liquids.

Because they like to cheat, not because those were needed for a majority of people who use them. Right...


I'm quite sure people who take the time to read your post, and my answer, will understand what I meant to say.

 

[Papillon61]

Since it's OK for food, I doubt the DIY sources will go away entirely.

If they stop making the flavours water soluble, which is essential for vaping but immaterial for cooking, then yes they might actually be made to go away.

 

[Papillon61]

As it happens, the beverage of my choice is water. And that is the whole point of this whole thread - CHOICE. I have made mine. Everyone else is free to make their own. But personally I feel it is the height of presumption to say that if something is working for me than surely it should and must work for everyone. Unless of course the next suggestion is going to be one that has already been made before on this very thread : Why don't you go back to smoking! I honestly still can't believe something like that was said on ECF!

 

[Robert Cromwell]

If they stop making the flavours water soluble, which is essential for vaping but immaterial for cooking, then yes they might actually be made to go away.

Now you are scaring me. Must order 120 ml bottles.
ecigexpress has the best prices I have seen on the 4 oz/120 ml bottles about $13 as I recall.

 

[YoursTruli]

Just like that "lipoid pneumonia" scare... one of the guys smoked for almost 30 years before vaping.

"Logically", the ONLY culprit for his illness was the e-cig he was using for only a month and and half.

and the other side of that is going to be "no way it was vaping that caused BO/lung disease/COPD/decrease in lung function... logically it's because they were a smoker/factory worker/chef/coffee roasting worker for howevermany+ years and should be attributed to that not to ecig use. So, everytime I see someone saying if vaping caused any problems we would know and see reports by now when logically it could be and probably is being contributed to something else instead by doctors or it falls in the we are not sure what caused this file when there could be multiple contributing factors..... when vaping may be the actual cause.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

I feel that vaping is safer than smoking. But vaping cannot be safer than not vaping, there is a price to pay for everything we do in life.
I expect that the ones who will first suffer from any negative effects of vaping will be the sub ohming klowd puffing vapers. They ingest the most vaping ingredients.

 

[VNeil]

Now you are scaring me. Must order 120 ml bottles.
ecigexpress has the best prices I have seen on the 4 oz/120 ml bottles about $13 as I recall.

For about $20 you can get 16oz bottles from TFA direct. And the 120ml bottles generally run $6-10. $13 is too much, unless it's some oddball expensive flavor.

A 16oz bottle may sound like a lot but if you're worried about flavorpocalpyse, maybe not. The big issue would be shelf life.

ETA: if you aren't talking about TFA, never mind

 

[puddinman]

and the other side of that is going to be "no way it was vaping that caused BO/lung disease/COPD/decrease in lung function... logically it's because they were a smoker/factory worker/chef/coffee roasting worker for howevermany+ years and should be attributed to that not to ecig use. So, everytime I see someone saying if vaping caused any problems we would know and see reports by now when logically it could be and probably is being contributed to something else instead by doctors or it falls in the we are not sure what caused this file when there could be multiple contributing factors..... when vaping may be the actual cause.

This is a great point. With the proportion of smokers who took up vaping, confounded by those who smoke and vape, it's going to be difficult to tease out which problems are vape related and which are smoking related. And we, as vapers, have to fight the natural human urge to deny problems.

Stopping smoking has proven to halt the progress of most respiratory illnesses; COPD in the early stages may not ever get better but it doesn't get worse. I will be convinced when a large proportion of vapers who don't smoke anymore or never did start getting sick or continue to worsen.

 

[Robert Cromwell]

For about $20 you can get 16oz bottles from TFA direct. And the 120ml bottles generally run $6-10. $13 is too much, unless it's some oddball expensive flavor.

A 16oz bottle may sound like a lot but if you're worried about flavorpocalpyse, maybe not. The big issue would be shelf life.

ETA: if you aren't talking about TFA, never mind

Capella is the ones I like.