I love vaping but Keep It Simple Stupid doesn't apply to the e cig industry.

Status
Not open for further replies.

Patkid

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Apr 15, 2013
3,349
22,010
75
Rockford, IL
My opinion, for what it's worth:
Most folks who come to ECF are forum savvy. (If not, I admire them for sticking around this huge site) I am 66 years old. I began to understand the value of forums while my husband was fighting Lung Cancer. I leaned on the experience of those who traveled the path before us. I made life long friends and found so much comfort for Brian and for me. Brian only lived 10 months after dx but the support and information we received on our LC Forum was a true blessing. I continue to support others that are in the battle currently. PIF

Then I discovered I loved following true crime. I joined a forum that follows missing persons cases and so on.

I found a forum that was devoted to my favorite author.

Then I found one that supported my Spiritual Life.

I think being forum savvy is more important than being vaping savvy when you first begin. This is a depository for an overwhelming amount of information. Knowing how to dig for what you need is imperative.

I like the posts that link to other helpful posts for new members. Acting as a guide to the forum is more important than recommending (guessing) a set up for someone starting out.

I quit smoking with v2 cigalikes and v2 Sahara at 12 mg. I followed the v2 forum and learned and graduated to the little clearos for the batters and how to refill my cartomizers.

Then one day I came to ECF. Every single person who posted to me was supportive and kind and generous. I became intrigued by what else was 'out there'. I was off cigs and so had really succeeded but was SO SICK OF CHARGING BATTERIES ALL DAY LONG. And so it began. Baby steps: eGo, vGo, evod batters, Vision Spinners then iTazte v3 , then (now) MVP2. I am so content. It cost a bit (quite a bit, actually) of money and I gagged on some really awful juice, and cleaned up after quite a few leaky CE4s. But it was a process. I enjoyed the experience. I know my limitations. My eyesight and shaky hands prohibit rebuilding coils. I can test flavors in a cartomizer with the filler removed.

I think sometimes we want to 'save' the new person from all our learning mistakes and failures.
We forget that the process matters. Taking the steps matters. It is like with our children. We can try to save them from suffering from mistakes by sharing our experience, but ultimately the process matters.

I received so much encouragement here and learned so much. I think others have the right and the necessity of experiencing the journey.
I thank each and every one of you on ECF for being here.
Blessings,
P
 

wv2win

ECF Guru
ECF Veteran
Feb 10, 2009
11,879
9,043
GA by way of WV
The company that comes out with a long lasting cigalike that is reasonably priced will make a fortune. If I could get a pack of cigalikes for 7 bucks (like my smokes) I would be all over it. Messing with all the e cig stuff is tiresome. Flipping a smoke in your mouth and lighting up is too easy.

It is highly unlikely IMO that will happen for several reasons:

1. Battery technology. You still don't have cars that can go close to 350 miles on a battery charge and they have been working on that for 60 years. Battery powered cars make up a fraction of the cars produced annually. And that is an industy that produces a product used by billions. No one is going to sink millions/billions into making a cig sized battery that will last 8 hours for an industry the size of vaping.

2. The financial incentive, for the "cig-a-like" companies, is to keep you buying MORE batteries not stop you from buying more batteries by making them last longer.

3. If the "state of your health" is tied to how easy it is to flip an analog in your mouth, well, what can I say.

I understand the desire for vaping to be easier. It's human nature and I also would like that. But I don't think it is realistic, at least not in comparison to how easy it is to smoke and kill ourselves.
 
Last edited:

AgentAnia

Resting In Peace
ECF Veteran
May 22, 2013
3,739
9,454
Orbiting Sirius B
My opinion, for what it's worth:
Most folks who come to ECF are forum savvy. (If not, I admire them for sticking around this huge site) I am 66 years old. I began to understand the value of forums while my husband was fighting Lung Cancer. I leaned on the experience of those who traveled the path before us. I made life long friends and found so much comfort for Brian and for me. Brian only lived 10 months after dx but the support and information we received on our LC Forum was a true blessing. I continue to support others that are in the battle currently. PIF

Then I discovered I loved following true crime. I joined a forum that follows missing persons cases and so on.

I found a forum that was devoted to my favorite author.

Then I found one that supported my Spiritual Life.

I think being forum savvy is more important than being vaping savvy when you first begin. This is a depository for an overwhelming amount of information. Knowing how to dig for what you need is imperative.

I like the posts that link to other helpful posts for new members. Acting as a guide to the forum is more important than recommending (guessing) a set up for someone starting out.

I quit smoking with v2 cigalikes and v2 Sahara at 12 mg. I followed the v2 forum and learned and graduated to the little clearos for the batters and how to refill my cartomizers.

Then one day I came to ECF. Every single person who posted to me was supportive and kind and generous. I became intrigued by what else was 'out there'. I was off cigs and so had really succeeded but was SO SICK OF CHARGING BATTERIES ALL DAY LONG. And so it began. Baby steps: eGo, vGo, evod batters, Vision Spinners then iTazte v3 , then (now) MVP2. I am so content. It cost a bit (quite a bit, actually) of money and I gagged on some really awful juice, and cleaned up after quite a few leaky CE4s. But it was a process. I enjoyed the experience. I know my limitations. My eyesight and shaky hands prohibit rebuilding coils. I can test flavors in a cartomizer with the filler removed.

I think sometimes we want to 'save' the new person from all our learning mistakes and failures.
We forget that the process matters. Taking the steps matters. It is like with our children. We can try to save them from suffering from mistakes by sharing our experience, but ultimately the process matters.

I received so much encouragement here and learned so much. I think others have the right and the necessity of experiencing the journey.
I thank each and every one of you on ECF for being here.
Blessings,
P

Wish I could give you more than one "like"! Reading this thread, I've been thinking exactly what you state, that the experience curve is just as important as the learning curve (having data is different from actually *doing* something). I think there are more smokers out there who have to follow the experience curve, from cigalike to more advanced options, than there are smokers who are willing to jump right in with VV and mods. Yes, it would be gratifying if we could save them the time and expense of the first steps, but that wouldn't help them, in the long run. You start on the road to literacy by reading See Spot Run, not War and Peace.

And let's not forget that there are uncountable vapers out there who were and are quite happy with their cigalikes and have no desire to upgrade!
 

Criticalmass

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
It's weird, when I started you pretty much had to be a modder. Even if you stuck to the cigalikes you were modding the carts so there was a lot of research and a lot of tinkering involved, but I think with the information overload and sheer number of options it's probably harder for a newbie now then it was back in the day.

Yes, The Chinese have flooded the market with products to the point that it is overwhelming people who might want to get into it (and most of it is crap, let's be honest). Luckily, most of them go to their local shop first and end up getting whatever they have available. The bad news is, what they have available is usually non-VV and is just a basic eGo kit with disposable tanks.. Also, I think a lot of people start off with too-low of a nicotine amount. If they smoke a pack a day I really think people should be starting off at 18mg. If it's too much, drop down to 16 or 12. But it's more important that they get the right amount of nicotine or they'll just go right back to analogs.
 

grandmato5

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 30, 2010
3,422
7,524
WNY
I also understand the desire for vaping to be easier. Human nature seeks the easiest way to do everything now-a-days. :glare: But vaping is NOT the same as smoking and never will be. One does not have to put massive learning effort into vaping to be successful, but one does have to be willing to put some effort into learning and maintaining whatever vaping supplies one chooses to use. People have to be willing to accept that patience is a required trait for being a successful vapor along with knowing that Murphy's Law does apply to ecigs. How far one chooses to go down the hobbyist path that leads to large amounts of learning is totally up to the individual.

Vaping is not for everyone. Yes, I wish it was for every person that now smokes, but its not.
 

bluecat

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 22, 2012
3,489
3,626
Cincy
It is highly unlikely IMO that will happen for several reasons:

1. Battery technology. You still don't have cars that can go close to 350 miles on a battery charge and they have been working on that for 60 years. Battery powered cars make up a fraction of the cars produced annually. And that is an industy that produces a product used by billions. No one is going to sink millions/billions into making a cig sized battery that will last 8 hours for an industry the size of vaping.

2. The financial incentive, for the "cig-a-like" companies, is to keep you buying MORE batteries not stop you from buying more batteries by making them last longer.

3. If the "state of your health" is tied to how easy it is to flip an analog in your mouth, well, what can I say.

I understand the desire for vaping to be easier. It's human nature and I also would like that. But I don't think it is realistic, at least not in comparison to how easy it is to smoke and kill ourselves.

True... but who knows with technology. At some point it time, it may be. I may be dead and buried by that time. It is still the perfect KISS methodly for e cigs. It was more of a wish list for me. I would love to not worry about mixing liquids. rewicking, charging batteries and all that fun stuff.

The eroll.. I have been looking at for a while. Not sure if their cartridge systems are fool proof, but it looks like it may be a "plug and play".

I would love it to be simple.

I still enjoy a cigar on the weekend. Nothing better than plopping in my chair with a Guinness Stout and puffing away watching nature go by for an hour.. Cut end of cigar. Strike match.. enjoy. :)
 

pufZeppelin

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jul 6, 2013
7,610
24,549
Florida, SW
I would love to not worry about mixing liquids. rewicking, charging batteries and all that fun stuff.

I would love it to be simple.

I still enjoy a cigar on the weekend. Nothing better than plopping in my chair with a Guinness Stout and puffing away watching nature go by for an hour..
Cut end of cigar. Strike match.. enjoy. :)

you sound like a candidate for one of these, have you seen or used one yet... ?

I have not, but very interested... ~ just something to ponder... :)

- e-Pipe DSE 601 Starter Kit

Vape≈Happy
 

emag7311

Full Member
Nov 3, 2013
57
47
montreal, canada
Everyone does not like to tinker, my DW for example. If I don't charge her batteries and load her juice, she would just go to the store and get a pack of stinkies, much easier for her, but I love her and want her to quit, so I do it. Most I think don't like the learning curve with vaping, smoking is easy, pull a cig out of the pack and light it, no thinking or work.

Vape On
:vapor:

Im on the same boat.. have to make sure my wife is constantly juiced to vape..
 

bluecat

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Jun 22, 2012
3,489
3,626
Cincy
you sound like a candidate for one of these, have you seen or used one yet... ?

I have not, but very interested... ~ just something to ponder... :)

- e-Pipe DSE 601 Starter Kit

Vape≈Happy

Thank you. I have looked at similar. I am sure my wife would love me to switch, but I have no plans to switch to an electronic cigar. I enjoy my cigars. I have too many e liquids with fake cigar liquid in them.
 

EvilZoe

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 26, 2013
3,844
8,549
Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
The fact is, vaping is NOT as easy as just smoking. It will likely NEVER be as easy as that. Wishing for it to be isn't going to make it any better.

The rewards, however, are far greater and that motivates people to work a little harder. It's not rocket science, though, so it isn't prohibitively difficult.
 

bshm

Senior Member
Sep 26, 2013
72
86
Nashville, Tennessee
Apple WISHES they had BT's number of customers. if anything MS is BT, Apple is the snooty pipe guy trying in vain to pull off a turtleneck, and the comb-over.

I wasn't thinking of the customer base but the actual products, every time I have to sit down and deal with windows a little piece of my soul dies. Lately there are empty word files all over the place because I'm trying to save too many docs at once or something... beats me, I could probably look into it but can't muster the effort. I just sit there, using the little blue e and bing wishing death upon the it folks who foisted this locked down neutered crap on us. The same ones who took a perfectly serviceable web tool and made it absolutely maddening to use... Much prettier though, just five times slower with reduced functionality to allow for the cosmetic differences some idiot who probably doesn't even have to use this junk, tHey just want it pretty and pastel.

I just don't care anymore, I have been told that if I want to use this site and that site that I need to use ie, I've been told it's safer, I've been told it's smarter and necessary for them to lock this stuff down and lie to us.

I don't care anymore, I hate these people with a white hot molten fire that burns me as well but I simply don't care. I don't support MS stuff anymore, it's not welcome in my house, I won't answer questions even if the answer is on the tip of my tongue...

I know what you're saying about the ipeople but I'm talking about the actual software. I just can't put into words how much I dislike microracle and the slackerdly march into the dark pit they are leading us into..
 

Vapo Marx

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Jul 20, 2013
799
1,134
New York
I'm a tinkerer in many regards (been working/playing with electronics most of my life) but I never wanted vaping to turn into another hobby for me. I love the intense vape I get from an RDA but it's not something I'm going to carry around with me, so I use an eGo setup most of the time and it does the job. But some people enjoy chasing the dragon, accumulating hardware and tinkering and that's fine, too.
 

yaypudding

Super Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Jul 17, 2013
809
2,421
North of NYC
As with anything in life, your level of commitment determines your level of success. I find the thought of dying from lung cancer or emphysema far more terrifying than anything vaping related. If it takes a bit of forum reading and video watching to get me away from that, well then I feel I have come out ahead.

Vaping is a journey, some take longer to get to their destination then others. I wasn't satisfied with any of my carto's or clearo's so I learned to build micro coils and I am very happy. It took me awhile and some dough but it was well worth it for me. Really, it is so simple that if you can't learn it's more like you won't try. I have really bad arthritic hands, so if I can do it anyone can.

Now I'm not saying you have to do anything I did, but if you're unsatisfied and are just looking for an excuse to go back to cigs, nothing will help you short of self realization. If you're happy with your setup, be happy, your search is over, don't let your ego trick you into thinking you need something bigger or more expensive to be happy.
 

EvilZoe

Vaping Master
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Sep 26, 2013
3,844
8,549
Savoir-Faire is everywhere!
I wasn't thinking of the customer base but the actual products, every time I have to sit down and deal with windows a little piece of my soul dies. Lately there are empty word files all over the place because I'm trying to save too many docs at once or something... beats me, I could probably look into it but can't muster the effort. I just sit there, using the little blue e and bing wishing death upon the it folks who foisted this locked down neutered crap on us. The same ones who took a perfectly serviceable web tool and made it absolutely maddening to use... Much prettier though, just five times slower with reduced functionality to allow for the cosmetic differences some idiot who probably doesn't even have to use this junk, tHey just want it pretty and pastel.

I just don't care anymore, I have been told that if I want to use this site and that site that I need to use ie, I've been told it's safer, I've been told it's smarter and necessary for them to lock this stuff down and lie to us.

I don't care anymore, I hate these people with a white hot molten fire that burns me as well but I simply don't care. I don't support MS stuff anymore, it's not welcome in my house, I won't answer questions even if the answer is on the tip of my tongue...

I know what you're saying about the ipeople but I'm talking about the actual software. I just can't put into words how much I dislike microracle and the slackerdly march into the dark pit they are leading us into..
dude....:blink:
 

Evi|grin

Ultra Member
ECF Veteran
Verified Member
Aug 21, 2013
1,097
851
Personally i found it to be easy and i started with a MVP with variable volts. The iClear30 tank that came with it was easy to fill and simple to take apart. I am a tinker though and ive been in the PC field for a long time.

I had a harder time picking out a new cordless phone with all the features i wanted without paying over $100 for it.

No, it was not as easy as lighting up an analog. White Cloud Fling disposables were simple as opening the package and taking a draw. IMO they are actually pretty good for a $3.50 disposable and i loved several of their flavors. Its not very cost effective but not terribly expensive either compared to analogs

Shortly after starting i found ECF and i found solutions/answers to a few problems and questions i had. I can not imagine what it would have been like without ECF and "veteran" vapers. A GOOD B&M is hard to find for many people. I was lucky and found two with informed staff, not just salesmen.
 

mobocracy

Senior Member
ECF Veteran
Oct 21, 2013
137
103
Minneapolis
Vaping needs to become more user friendly, fast. That's all I'm saying. Thanks for reading.

It's hard not to generally agree with this. I think cigalikes are far ahead of "vaping" (batteries with refillable tanks) in terms of convenience and ease of use and do a fairly good job of what they do, providing an experience that is very much like smoking a cigarette -- throat hit, form factor and flavor strike me as very much like smoking.

"Vaping" is a lot better in terms of flavors and economy once you find a setup that works, but it's a little confusing to get the parts right and separate the junk from the quality. And the virtually limitless juice options are almost as bad, mostly because I think there are a lot of really bad juices out there. I had buyer's remorse over my EVOD kit because the B&M I bought it in had no flavors I found appealing relative to the Greensmoke cigalike I had been using.

While the "vaping" technology is probably way better than it was, it still seems clumsy. Drizzling juice in on the side of a clearomizer to avoid the post in the center? There's not a widget with some kind of reverse-post to just pour it in, ideally with a calibrated volume for the clearo in question? It's like using an ink pen that you have to manually fill from a bottle.

I'd wager that in a few short years someone is going to be the "Steve Jobs" of vaping and produce a device that produces the vape quality of a custom tank system and variable wattage battery with the ease of use of cigalike.
 

wheezal

Insane Halon
ECF Veteran
Aug 27, 2013
8,647
17,774
Austin, Tx
I'd wager that in a few short years someone is going to be the "Steve Jobs" of vaping and produce a device that produces the vape quality of a custom tank system and variable wattage battery with the ease of use of cigalike.


and then someone else will steal the idea, make it cheaper for the masses and divide the consumer base into frenzied fanatics. i imagine a prolonged cold war escalating in a brief nuclear conflict followed by the remnants of humanity left in the wasteland of a dying planet.

vaping will blow up the WORLD!
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

Users who are viewing this thread