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iJoy 21700/3750 mAh 40A -OR- ZestQuest 21700/4000mAh -OR- SC 21700/4000 mAh

Discussion in 'Batteries and Chargers' started by virm, Nov 13, 2019.

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  1. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    Hi kids! New device and first time real shopping, got Sony 1800s which fit with adapter, but me wants the biggers!

    So shopping for 21700s
    options :
    iJoy 21700/3750 mAh 40A = 11,95 €
    ZestQuest 21700/4000mAh = 13,95 €
    SC 21700/4000 mAh = 11,95 €

    I'm naturally leaning toward the 400mAh's. But uncertain as to which manufacturer is more reliable. SC is a funny label I find in Germany on many things, the generic (but so far reliable) juices and bases are 'SC' but so are Eleaf mods! Seriously, the Pico box didn't even have the word Eleaf, if I remember correctly [German experts, what's that about?]. I'd go with the obviously more expensive, but given that that isn't necessarily the right criterion...

    Appreciate the advice!
     
  2. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Hey Grandpa
    I'd buy neither of those, as all of them are rewraps.
    Get the Samsung 40T for up to 75W per cell (6€) or the Samsung 30T for up to 90W per cell (5€).
    Nkon.nl has both in stock.
    Akkuteile.de is worth a look as well, but they're more expensive.
     
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  3. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    @mimöschen Danke Alter!
    Samsung it is.
    Suppose I shouldn't have been looking for it in vapeshops in the first place. Probably find those somewhere in town too_ could've passed by mediamarkt today...
    odd: these are much cheaper... there's 5000mAh stuff on Akkuteile!
    Very punch ammreciated.
     
  4. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    You're doing well to take @mimöschen's advice. The problems with rewraps are:
    • You never know what's under the wrap - even if you've used a battery before they can change without notice, so you never know what the specs really are
    • Many rewrappers lie through their teeth about specs, which brings us back to never being sure of how you can use them safely
    • They're often produced in factories with bad to terrible quality control, so there's a not-insignificant risk of fatal flaws in the battery - and you can never be sure of the specs
    The 5000 mAh batteries you're seeing are probably either rewraps that aren't really 5000 mAh, or they're low CDR (10 amps or under) batteries only suitable for very low power MTL vaping if that.

    Mooch has produced a table of recommended batteries for us non-experts. I strongly suggest picking your batteries from it - you'll notice that both the 40T and 30T make an appearance.

    There's also a list of reliable vendors (including the two mimöschen mentioned above) in the blue section of the chart. Sticking to them helps to reduce the risk of winding up with counterfeits, of which there are many.
     
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  5. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    Thanks. Yes, I've since read up/watvhed a bit. I'd just been looking at mAhs to decide and trusted there'd be regulations (what['s the bonbom point of having govs with such power over ppl sacrifcing all independence and privacy, if your'e not guaranteed safe batteries?!)

    It's a bit confusing, having read this: does the equal mAhs with some 18650s equaling 21700s, and some 20700s out-doing 21700s... why did i get a larger 21700-compatible device again?

    Ok, so i didn't want to drag you guys thru the endless questioning i seem to be prone to fall into. Given that I learned the various parameters i'll repeat with specificity:

    Nunchaku2 (21700-, 20700- and 18650-compatible). It's Max 100W.

    I alternate 2 tanks: 13W and 55W. Probably never hit 75. As such no interest in mech-ing.

    I already have a Sony 18650... wait, check,... VTC5A. Seems like it lasts me the day (after 2 days of use_ barely lost 2/5 of its charge. Everything's new though).

    What get? Now or later?

    Out of curiousity, how come a non-big-company beat out everything; the Molicel one?
     
  6. Zaryk

    Zaryk Ultra Member Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Jan 25, 2018
    Ohio
    These batteries were never intended to be used the way we use them. They are designed to be used in protected packs for things such as drills and electric bikes. No regulations are set because, according to the manufacturers, we are not really supposed to use them outside of those protected packs the manufacturer intended them for. Also, China seems to be the main source for counterfeit and over rated batteries, and there is little legal action anyone can do about that outside of China.

    MaH isnt everything. CDR means more when picking out a battery. A 21700 could have the same MaH as a 20700 or 18650, but the 21700 will likely have more amps.

    Molicel is actually a big company in the battery world.
     
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  7. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Mah means nothing in the end.
    Watthours (wh) are important, but those are never printed on the wraps, because wh changes with the actual ampdraw.

    All 2x700s from the Big5 (Samsung/Sony/Sanyo/LG/Moli) provide more wh than 18650s and thus outperform their smaller counterparts, even though they may have the same mah and/or CDR, because the latter reach a mod's cutoff voltage of 3.2V way earlier, which in turn means a lot less vaping time.
     
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  8. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    There are three big numbers for the batteries we use:
    • 18650/20700/21700 - this refers to the size and shape of the battery - the packaging, basically
    • mAh - capacity - how long it can run between charges (other factors also affect this)
    • CDR - continuous discharge rate - this refers to how many amps you can safely (more-or-less) run the battery at while discharging. If you're vaping on a regulated mod, it determines the maximum wattage you can use without damaging your battery.
    A given type of battery, say an 18650, only has so much room inside it for the chemicals and metals that make it operate. Increasing the CDR means putting in more metal, which leaves you with less room for the stuff that controls capacity, and vice versa. This means that batteries with a higher CDR have a lower capacity (mAh), and batteries with lower CDR can have a higher capacity. It's a trade off.

    A 21700 is bigger than an 18650, so it has more room for battery stuff, but it's not infinite. When you see a 21700 with the same mAh as a particular 18650, it's probable that the 21700 has a higher CDR than the 18650. The batteries would have the same amount of mAh stuff, but the 21700 filled up its extra room with CDR stuff.

    If you're wondering about the wattage limits of a battery, multiply the CDR by three to get a rough per-battery maximum. Your VTC5A has a 25 amp CDR, so (at least when it's new), it's good for about 75 watts on a single battery mod or 150 w on a dual battery mod. A Samsung 30Q, which is also a popular battery, has a CDR of 15 amps and shouldn't be used over 45 w on a single battery mod - so it wouldn't be a good choice for you. That's why it's so important to pay attention to CDRs.

    About when to buy a new battery - It's good to have a few batteries so there's one to use while the other is charging and so you have one or two extras in case anything happens. However, batteries deteriorate with age, so there's no point in stocking up and buying a bunch to use later. It's generally best to buy them as needed.

    It sounds like your 18650 is working fine for you, so whether you want to get another 18650 or a 21700 is just a matter of personal preference. Your VTC5A has 2500 mah, and if you went with a 21700 you could get a Samsung 40T or Molicel P42A with 4000 mAh (and the same or higher CDR), but on the other hand you don't really seem to need the extra capacity. While I don't usually recommend pinching pennies when it comes to batteries, this is a case where the best bet might be the less expensive one.
     
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  9. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    Thanks a whole bunch @Hawise @mimöschen @Zaryk !!! one exclamation point for each_

    Agreed indeed. Don't think i'll ever need more power. (THough, I'm starting to wonder what's so pleasurable about higher wattage stuff. This how everyone gets sucked in deeper, isn't it? The immersion was definitely useful, can't even think of cigarettes now, but I'm all uh-oh of this becoming a full time hobby.)

    Maybe best to have 2 to switch between if i'm in a rush and can't wait to recharge in the morning [i'm assuming it's not good to leave a battery in the charger overnight]. In which case, it must be capacity over power, if i understand correctly, and it's either the "40T or Molicel P42A with 4000 mAh".

    the vape shop guy never heard of the latter, and sells the 40T at around 11 euro. These websites really dependable? I'm leaning toward saving now, however little, since I recently realized how big a thrift i've been as a newbie, esp. on the liquid.
     
  10. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    NKon and Akkuteile are two of the most reliable sources for genuine and foremost fresh battery cells in continental Europe.
    I'd never ever buy cells in a vapeshop. Most notably not in a shop whose owner is not up to date.

    The Sanyo 20700B 15A 4250mah (up to 45W) or the Samsung INR21700 50E 10A 5000mah (25W) might be worth a look as well in your case.
     
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  11. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    Thanks for the suggestion. But I only MTL when I need high nic doses. Most of the time I vape at around 55w. So probably the first two.

    About the sites, I meant as opposed to buying offline, like at Mediamarkt for example (don't know if they have these Akkus though).

    This specific guy seemed a decently seasoned vaper, said he only gets what his 'Jungs' who test stuff approve of. The place only sells the 'big four' Akkus. German scenes are often a self-sufficient world on their own_ so iIt's understandable if he isn't aware just how rigouroues Mooch has been and how conscientious the advice is around here. That's why when I asked about Molicel and mentioned an online reviewer he was dismissive because he only takes trust worthy sources. [Not defending the guy or anything].

    Figured the price is a rip off though, like the wires and cotton would be, at any vape shop probably.

    Thanks for all the advice, definitely ordering a cell, having stayed home all day, chaining the DL tank and barely using my Zlide, the 18650 is almost out.
     
  12. Hawise

    Hawise Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Mar 25, 2013
    AB, Canada
    The websites are recommended over buying offline (admittedly I don't know what Mediamarkt is, so I can't speak specifically about that). They tend to have newer cells, and since batteries deteriorate over time that's important. More significantly, the recommended sites have generally reliable supply channels. Batteries are often counterfeited. Even reliable vape shops that would never intentionally sell a fake battery can be taken in quite easily. Sticking with the recommended sites really reduces (although it never eliminates) your risk of winding up with a counterfeit.
     
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  13. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    mediamarkt's sort of like an all things electronics... new age Radioshack(?)like... a big franchise i think

    good enough for me.. websites it is.
     
  14. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    @mimöschen hi.. entschuldige, just one last issue, as i was about to order, akkuteile says the molicel p42a is 4200mAh. that indication that it's fake, or has it just been upgraded since Mooch's list?
     
  15. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    Akkuteile doesn't sell fakes.
    4200mah is just the cell's typical/max rating and 4000mah its minimum rating.
     
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  16. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    If you consider to buy the P42a, keep in mind that it's bigger than most other 21700 cell on the market, so it will not fit in all mods.
     
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  17. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    thanks for response and for the heads up... i'll try nad figure out if it'd fit into nunchaku2
     
  18. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    cant figure it out. guess i'll just get the 40T.

    FYI mediamarkt has none of our battery sizes here.. very vape-UN-friendly. why is that cool to me?
     
  19. mimöschen

    mimöschen Ultra Member ECF Veteran

    Jul 15, 2016
    You can get the 40T on nkon.nl for 2€ less.;)
     
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  20. virm

    virm Super Member

    Oct 27, 2019
    done. thanks for the nudge, would've let another day delay.
    i don't need a solder tag, do i?
     

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