I'm scared to make my own ejuice. but I still want to try.

[Sdh]

Oops forgot about Loranns natural flavorings. I think ecigexpress and wizard labs sells them.
They are here at Wizards
LorAnn Natural Flavorings
but ecigexpress has a better selection
http://www.ecigexpress.com/diy-e-liquid-flavors/lorann-flavoring/lorann-naturals.html
I personally would stay clear of the ones that are oil based. They are the ones insoluble in water.

 

[glasseye]

250 ml of the 24mg solution all VG(I don't want animal product in my juice):

I'm confused (what else is new) by this. Why do you think PG has animal product in it?

 

[pamdis]

I've done the math and high nic concentrations are not cheaper. This falsehood is pretty widespread on our forum -- and we need to end it.

As posters suggested earlier, noobs should start with a lower concentration that meets their needs. There are reasons for higher concentrations but cost and safety are not among them.

[rant off]

The price of the nic per ml is higher at higher concentrations, but you use less of it, so it is cheaper. Here's the math I did when I was deciding which strength to buy:

100mg/ml - 500 ml - $56.99 - .11/ml
36mg/ml - 500 ml - $29.99 - .06/ml

When I make a 100ml bottle of 18mg/ml liquid here's the total cost of nic in the bottle:
100mg/ml - need 18ml - 18 * .11 = $1.98
36mg/ml - need 50ml - 50 * .06 = $3.00

PG/VG is about .01 per ml, so adding that in:
100mg/ml - need 82ml of pg - 1.98 + .82 = $2.80
36mg/ml - need 50ml of pg - 3.00 + .50 = $3.50

Unless I have really messed up the math, higher nic strength is cheaper.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

I've done the math and high nic concentrations are not cheaper. This falsehood is pretty widespread on our forum -- and we need to end it.

As posters suggested earlier, noobs should start with a lower concentration that meets their needs. There are reasons for higher concentrations but cost and safety are not among them.

[rant off]

At many sites that sell nic I visit, the higher concentrations are a little less expensive than the lower. It may also cost less to ship smaller volumes of more concentrated nic than large volumes of more diluted products. Higher concentrations are not safer, of course not, but I don't know how your math is proving no economic advantage.

From my research, with proper precautions and a steady hand, the average person will be safe with concentrations around 24 mg/ml, or even twice that. Concentrations over 100 mg/ml are not recommended for the average home juicer. Just going by what I read around here.

 

[LoveVanilla]

The price of the nic per ml is higher at higher concentrations, but you use less of it, so it is cheaper. Here's the math I did when I was deciding which strength to buy:

100mg/ml - 500 ml - $56.99 - .11/ml
36mg/ml - 500 ml - $29.99 - .06/ml

When I make a 100ml bottle of 18mg/ml liquid here's the total cost of nic in the bottle:
100mg/ml - need 18ml - 18 * .11 = $1.98
36mg/ml - need 50ml - 50 * .06 = $3.00

There are a couple issues in your calculation: 1) you've not accounted for the extra cost of vg or pg required for dilution and 2) you're calculating the price of 100mg nic at twice the equivalent volume used when calculating for 36mg.

Here, look at this example (prices from WL):

Goal: Make 1 Liter nicotine base at 18mg/ml strength

Using 48ml concentrate:

If using 48ml concentrate, you will need: 375 ml of nic (@48mg) and 625 ml of vg/pg

Then, to mix this, you will need to buy:

500ml of nic (@48mg) - $34.29
500ml of VG (two bottles required) - $9.49 x 2 = $18.98

Then prorate costs by the amounts actually used to get the total actual cost:

$34.29 x (375/500) + $18.98 x (625/1000) = $37.48


Using 100ml concentrate:

If using 100ml concentrate, you will need: 180 ml of nic (@100mg) and 820 ml of vg/pg

Then, to mix this, you will need to buy (prices from WL):

250ml of nic (@100mg) - $29.99
500ml of VG (two bottles required) - $9.49 x 2 = $18.98

Then prorate costs by amounts used to get the total actual cost:

$29.99 x (180/250) + $18.98 x (820/1000) = $37.16


So there is the proof -- numbers don't lie. Higher nic concentrations are NOT cheaper. And I have run these calculations among multiple various concentrations. Indeed, with the extra safety equipment required, high nic concentrations are MORE expensive.

So let's rid this from our vaping lore now -- it is falsehood. And is directing noobs toward practices that do not serve their best interests -- or those of this community. There ARE reasons for high nic concentrations but cost and safety are NOT among them. Noobs should be using the lowest nic concentration that meets their needs -- and certainly below 50mg/ml.

Would appreciate if others will also help get these facts out to both our membership and noobs. Thanks

 

[pamdis]

Yes, you're right. It depends on the PG/VG prices as well. I buy from amazon and so my totals come out different. Also depends on the size of the nic as well as the strength. If you buy WL 500ml of 100mg instead of the 250ml, you get the total cheapest price.

 

[LoveVanilla]

But buying by the gallon is cheaper still... Or even a tanker? And hopefully you'll agree that it's not best practice to steer noobs immediately towards high nic strengths -- without some demonstrated background or experience? Many will simply lack requisite knowledge and understanding -- and need some experience first. And for many, the mixing of flavors to purchased base will be totally adequate.

Cheers!

 

[happydave]

There are a couple issues in your calculation: 1) you've not accounted for the extra cost of vg or pg required for dilution and 2) you're calculating the price of 100mg nic at twice the equivalent volume used when calculating for 36mg.

Here, look at this example (prices from WL):

Goal: Make 1 Liter nicotine base at 18mg/ml strength

Using 48ml concentrate:

If using 48ml concentrate, you will need: 375 ml of nic (@48mg) and 625 ml of vg/pg

Then, to mix this, you will need to buy:

500ml of nic (@48mg) - $34.29
500ml of VG (two bottles required) - $9.49 x 2 = $18.98

Then prorate costs by the amounts actually used to get the total actual cost:

$34.29 x (375/500) + $18.98 x (625/1000) = $37.48


Using 100ml concentrate:

If using 100ml concentrate, you will need: 180 ml of nic (@100mg) and 820 ml of vg/pg

Then, to mix this, you will need to buy (prices from WL):

250ml of nic (@100mg) - $29.99
500ml of VG (two bottles required) - $9.49 x 2 = $18.98

Then prorate costs by amounts used to get the total actual cost:

$29.99 x (180/250) + $18.98 x (820/1000) = $37.16


So there is the proof -- numbers don't lie. Higher nic concentrations are NOT cheaper. And I have run these calculations among multiple various concentrations. Indeed, with the extra safety equipment required, high nic concentrations are MORE expensive.

So let's rid this from our vaping lore now -- it is falsehood. And is directing noobs toward practices that do not serve their best interests -- or those of this community. There ARE reasons for high nic concentrations but cost and safety are NOT among them. Noobs should be using the lowest nic concentration that meets their needs -- and certainly below 50mg/ml.

Would appreciate if others will also help get these facts out to both our membership and noobs. Thanks

100ml Titanium Ice 72mg Unflavored - Single Bottle

100ml Platinum Ice 54mg Unflavored - Single Bottle

i will use these 2 products to demonstrate that the price per PRICE PER MG is cheaper when dealing with nicotine solution of a higher percentage than of a lower percentage.

platinum-ice : 100 mL at 54 MG per mL = 5400 MG or 5.4 grams of nicotine per bottle and cost $52.99
price per MG = .009 USD... price per gram : 9.81 USD

titanium-ice : 100 Ml at 72 MG per mL = 7200 MG or 7.2 grams of nicotine per bottle and cost 59.99
price per MG = .008 USD.... price per gram : 8.33 USD

now the difference of one thousandths of a penny per MG might not sound like a lot. but when you consider the price per gram it starts to add up.

lets look at it another way

for an additional 7 dollars over the cost of the platinum ice you could get the titanium ice and get 1.8 grams more @ $3.88 per gram i would call that a VOLUME DISCOUNT...

lets now take a look at wizardlabs.us
100mg Nicotine solution - 500ml
12mg Nicotine solution - 500ml

100 MG per mL at 500 mL per bottle ($56.99) = 50 grams of nicotine per bottle with a price per gram of $1.13 USD.

the other product is 12 MG per mL

12 MG per mL at 500 mL per bottle ($20.29) = 6 grams of nicotine per bottle with a price per gram of $3.38 USD.

sure you will use more PG and or VG when mixing with 100 MG / mL nicotine solution when compared to say 12 MG / mL..

but i would say your stepping over dollars to pick up pennies considering USP grade PG and VG and be had for around .009 USD per mL. or think about it like this, a 15 mL bottle of just VG would cost you 13 cents.
example
6 MG per mL. 15 mL total batch.
using 100 MG per mL = .9 ML of nicotine solution. total cost for nic solution .099 cents
using 12 MG per mL = 7.5 ML of nicotine solution. total cost for nic solution .30 cents.
so i would rather just toss another 10 or 12 cents in VG in the batch, than spend 20 cents per batch on more expensive nicotine base and another 5 or 6 cents in VG..

 

[happydave]

But buying by the gallon is cheaper still... Or even a tanker? And hopefully you'll agree that it's not best practice to steer noobs immediately towards high nic strengths -- without some demonstrated background or experience? Many will simply lack requisite knowledge and understanding -- and need some experience first. And for many, the mixing of flavors to purchased base will be totally adequate.

Cheers!

if you want to turn the "noobs" away from the really potent nicotine base that is fine. just say its dangerous to work with. (and it can be) we all can agree with that... saying 100 MG of nicotine will cost you more money in long run is just not correct.

i use the same safety precautions regardless of MG per mL..

 

[Juiceinator]

Standard safetly protocols are at the top of the DIY forum. Buy gloves. Theyre cheap and can potentially save your life. I'm pretty experienced with chemistry and math so i dont use the calculators. My first DIY i finished the other day. Complete success and i love the flavor. Not everyone is so lucky and i was planning on spending at least two months perfecting my simple formula. I read a ton. Found flavors that were what i was looking for and went for it. I found that mixing in a pyrex and nuking it for 25 seconds eliminated the need to wait weeks for it to steep as well. That was with a 24ml batch. Anyway just treat chemicals as you would any hazardous materials and if you don't know how to do that.. google is your best friend.
PS if you plan on heating your liquid at all it will create some fumes. Wear a mask and eye protection and always have emergency cleanup materials readily available.

 

[tplee]

I'm confused (what else is new) by this. Why do you think PG has animal product in it?

PG is made with animal fat

 

[cg23]

This is a great thread for noobs like me interested in mixing. Thanks

 

[Caridwen]

PG is made with animal fat

??

I think you're thinking of VG, and the VG and PG we vape are both synthetic

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/277267-purity-pg-vg-peg-short-version.html

VG
Glycerine should only be inhaled in pharma grade, which is often synthetic. The use of the term VG to describe the glycerine we use for inhalation is probably obsolete now, and stems from the early days of e-cigarette use when there was little use of Glycerine USP and DIYers had a choice between vegetable-source glycerine and animal-source glycerine [1]. Pharma grade glycerine for inhalation - the only type that should be used - is frequently synthetic [2] and therefore absolutely pure, so its origin is irrelevant.

 

[glasseye]

PG is made with animal fat

What Caridwen said. I've searched for about an hour now and can find nothing about PG being made with animal fat. The closest I could come was a synthetic or organic compound derived from natural gas but no word on animal fat.

 

[JamezC]

So I'd like to try and make my own ejuice as buying ejuice is starting to get expensive but after reading all t h e warnings about liquid nicotine I'm somewhat scared.

What happens if you touch it?

You wouldn't die from touching it would you?

Sorry I know these might be dumb questions

Lol none of your questions are dumb, I was slightly afraid at first as well. When using liquid nicotine just use common sense really, when you measure out your nic base make sure and always re-cap it, so you don't run the risk of spilling it. If you DO get some on your hands or whatever just make sure and promptly (don't get in a rush) wash it off. If enough nic soaks through your skin then I'd imagine you might get a little sick but I don't think you'd die, of course, I'm hardly a professional so take that for what's it's worth XD

If you want to be safe I'd start out at 24mg base nic

 

[dannyv45]

I'm not sure why this thread went from a beginner DYI'er being a little nervious about trying DYI for the first time to an all out price war. But the simple answer is Decide what MG strength you want to vape buy NIC in a low enough concentration to mix your PG/VG base in your desired concentration. When you buy this get small bottles (NIC/PG/VG) and a few flavor samples and do some mixing. If you decide that DYI is for you and you've learned enough to build your confidence then invest in larger and stronger quantities. It's really that simple. So if you want to vape 50pg/50VG/24mg or lower buy 120ml's of 36mg NIC, 120ml's of VG and 120ml's PG and a few flavors. This is a great and very safe starting point. If you get a little 36mg NIC on your hands simply wash it off and continue. 36MG will not kill you if you get it on your skin just don't let it linger on your skin for a long period of time. I'm not saying to not wear gloves or protection but it's not nessessary to go over board with that as some like to suggest. I infact laugh when I invision the new DYI'er sitting there in a gas mask, full rubber aprin, thick black elbow length rubber gloves and blast shield covering there face Gees I've gotton 100mg on my skin and simply wash it off and I'm still alive and kicking. I would expect any individual to have the common sense to not take a swig of it straight from the bottle because that will harm you. It's always good to read the precautions so your aware but don't let it frightened you to the point of confusion. It's all simple common sense.

Let me suggest some reading to get you going

Read my blogs before getting started

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/dannyv45/

then read hoosier's blogs.

http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/blogs/hoosier/

then read the stickies at the top of the page.

this will explain a lot of the how's and why's.

 

[thatguy2]

c'mon danny, don't everyone doing DIY look like -->

 

[dannyv45]

That's just so toxic I want to go into work wearing that and shout "OK you've all been infected stay where you are!!

It's not the end of the world but it don't look good either.

 

[03FXDWG]

I was nervous when I first started my DIY adventure, too so I bought a 36mg/ml bottle of nicotine solution to get my courage up. It disappeared so quickly and without issue that I had no fears re-ordering the 100mg/ml bottle.

I prefer Wizard Labs & Nude Nicotine for my nicotine. Wizard Labs also has the 10ml bottles of TFA Flavoring so I always check their first and throw a couple flavors in the cart before checkout. They also have the syringes, needles, bottles, gloves and mixing stands so are a good one stop shop if they have nicotine in stock. It goes quickly!

PG is not animal based. VG has been in the past but I don't think the USP/Pharmacy grade currently used is. I don't like my VG over 40%. It mutes the flavor too much and reduces the throat hit for my satisfaction--cloud chasers and light cigarette ex-smokers will disagree.

 

[Ohms Lawbreaker]

That's how folks gotta dress for sex these days.