I'm so confused

[vexxis]

I read this article: Call out for e-cigarette legislation in which Matthew Budd says:

“What the law states right now is that e-cigarettes that make a health claim such as 'this product can help you quit smoking,' those can't be legally sold as well as e-cigarettes that contain nicotine can't be sold legally in Canada but whether people are following those rules are a different story,”

While I get that you don't yet get to make claims that might someday be proven to be false (or at least have yet to be proven to be true), why is he saying that e-cigarettes that contain nicotine can't be sold legally in Canada? And what "rules" are people not following?

Like what law is someone breaking selling e-cigarettes that contain nicotine? I didn't know there was one (but that's no excuse - in the eye's of the law) so if there is such a law I'd like to know about it or is this guy talking through his hat and totally wrong? My understanding until now was that Health Canada advised people not to buy them back in 2009 by issuing an advisory: "Health Canada is advising Canadians not to purchase or use electronic smoking products, as these products may pose health risks and have not been fully evaluated for safety, quality and efficacy by Health Canada." and hasn't be heard from since?

So I go to a local smoke shop that sells e-cigarettes and I'm told "no e-juice/e-liquid containing nicotine here, can't get it, it's illegal, lots of different flavours of e-juice but none with nicotine". A five minute drive away is another store that sells e-juice that contains nicotine. So I'm confused. Please help clear up my confusion.

 

[Towmotor]

Smoke shops and chain stores sell the no-nic variety. Vape shops sell eliquid with nicotine. The law is being loosely interpreted as "e cigarettes are un-approved' as opposed to "illegal". Once legislation is in place that may change.

 

[dahlialady]

After reading that article, I thought it would be more appropriate that pharmaceutical companies don't make the claim "Nicotine gum and the Patch can help you quit smoking". Because those two options didn't work for me (and probably the vast majority of people that tried them!)

I know a few things.
E-cigarettes have helped me quit smoking for almost one year now.
I am physically healthier now.
I have saved tons of money.

That article is a joke. Health Canada is a joke.

 

[vexxis]

...That article is a joke. Health Canada is a joke.

I wish it was a joke. Obviously it's no joking matter to City of Toronto employees and I won't be laughing much at the "joke" if people have to go back to smoking tobacco cigarettes (the only ones authorized for sale by Health Canada). Well, maybe it is all a joke (as you say), just a very bad, even obscene one

 

[dahlialady]

I can't see myself ever going back to comitting slow suicide with cigarettes. 33 years of a pack a day, and I AM DONE!
I will go to the States to buy nicotine if I have to. I will mix my own, I will make my own devices. You can just imagine Canada outlawing certain batteries because they are popular in ecigarettes. It's a huge conspiracy theory here.

 

[vexxis]

....I will go to the States to buy nicotine if I have to. I will mix my own, I will make my own devices. You can just imagine Canada outlawing certain batteries because they are popular in ecigarettes. It's a huge conspiracy theory here.

Yes and when I don't understand something I work hard to learn and then understand it but I'm loosing ground on this one. You're probably well aware that NY is trying to ban e-liquid and Heath Canada (with CBSA's help) is trying to stop it coming across the border (even though I recently received a litre of nicotine from the US) so the US may eventually not be the go-to place to get your nicotine. Seems the more research I do the more confused I get about what is really going on here.

I guess we will know soon as things are happening very quickly now. Even "Tobacco bonds" are in danger of default (or otherwise affecting the finances of the states that issued them) because tobacco sales are dropping off so quickly.

 

[vincom]

considering this is the cheapest method to a smoking cessation product that is available that actually work, imho, i think there are some big corporations and advocacy groups that will feel the pinch if vaping is condoned by health agencies and offered as a alternative to other smoking, more expensive, cessation products and as such the people quitting analogues will increase dramatically.
the dramatic increase is not or was not thought possible a few years ago hence their long term projections of analogue use will be askewed and as such their profit or organizations(anti smoking and alike) will become unrealized or obsolete.
even govts will be affected by a lower take on taxes.

vaping is a big win for ex smokers in their health and pocket book but nobody seems to care, atleast to the ones that make the rules

 

[dahlialady]

considering this is the cheapest method to a smoking cessation product that is available that actually work, imho, i think there are some big corporations and advocacy groups that will feel the pinch if vaping is condoned by health agencies and offered as a alternative to other smoking, more expensive, cessation products and as such the people quitting analogues will increase dramatically.
the dramatic increase is not or was not thought possible a few years ago hence their long term projections of analogue use will be askewed and as such their profit or organizations(anti smoking and alike) will become unrealized or obsolete.
even govts will be affected by a lower take on taxes.

vaping is a big win for ex smokers in their health and pocket book but nobody seems to care, atleast to the ones that make the rules

Bingo. You hit the nail on the head. Big Pharma loses. Big Tobacco loses. Federal Government loses. (They lose twice actually) Less revenue on tobacco sales and more pension payouts as less people die of smoking related diseases. Sad but true.

 

[vexxis]

That's one of the best explanations I've heard, so I'm not quite as confused anymore - thanks for that. I still don't understand Heath Canada (ignoring their own exemption in Schedule F) and CBSA (making extra work for themselves) or their motives for that. Perhaps when some child dies from drinking e-juice and makes for sensational news they will be able to say they have been trying to do something in the typical Government "cover your ...." scenario? Of course, children get into all sorts of things all the time that should never have been left accessible to to them with sometimes tragic results including loaded guns.

 

[684Alpha]

I would totally echo that and add I think the government loses 3 times, in addition to what you guys mention. They lose again because big tobacco are huge campaign contributors and government party supporters. Also I think it's important to remember that agencies like Health Canada an the FDA are government funded (nuff said?). It sounds crazy but even organizations like the lung cancer society do actually benefit from smokers and would severely be affected by a lack of smokers. Let's not make the same mistakes as our friends south of the boarder. They hade their chance to speak out to the FDA, and the vast majority of vapers said nothing. I saw posts from Demi the Vapingreek and pbasardo the day before the FDA comment period ended, stating that less than 80000 vapers submitted comments (I have a feeling there are a lot more vapers over there). If and when we get the chance our selves, EVERY single one of us need to step up and fight for what is saving our lives. Here is a link to the best info regarding Canadian law I have found yet, http://whatdoesthelawsay.ca/ (unfortunately looks like they are revamping it at the moment). Please check back on this site, they even show how Health Canada has started hiding the facts about ecigs in Canada. They are not currently illegal nic or not, but Health Canada has started burying the facts on their site over the past year or two. Here's the vid that led me to that site, kinda long but info, I think we as Canadian vapers should know, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XsJ9USm9y08

 

[vexxis]

I getting a lot less confused after watching the entire video. Anyone know why the web site mentioned is still down for maintenance? I'm hoping Heath Canada has nothing to do with it being unavailable

 

[684Alpha]

I was there a month ago or so and the background looked completely different so I'm really hoping that she is just having the site redone and updated. I don't know that health Canada has that kind of pull. At least I hope not. From what I read on there, it appeared to be factual and posting health Canada's own pages, but with the propaganda and general shadyness of the way Ecigs are being treated these days, who knows. I will be checking back though