Interesting news from Dr Farsalinos, and the Kayfun lite

[Impulso]

Hi all,

I read the paper released by Dr Farsalinos, that is titled "E-cigarettes generate high levels of aldehydes only in ‘dry puff’ conditions"(free paper for a month - search google)

Great paper that shows controlled testing, and not the random garbage that is thrown around. However, the results do puzzle and worry me. He tested a single wick setup at 9W, and found relatively high levels of aldehyde(supposedly due to dry puff conditions). Double wick method doesn't cause this.

I've always used the single wick setup, and rarely do I approach this dry puff phenomenon. Am I alone in this? I would be interested in hearing everyones thoughts.

 

[roxynoodle]

If you are concerned, you might want a mod with temp control. They aren't all expensive.

 

[WillyZee]

looks like bad wicking on the kayfun.

 

[B2L]

Yet another benefit of squonking.

 

[Impulso]

I have all of the above, as I am heavily addicted to shinyitus. I was confused as to why the paper was saying that they were seeing dry hits at such low wattages. I have experienced the dry hit phenomenon especially when I was learning to setup RTAs years ago, but haven't recently, and was wondering whether I was indeed exposing myself to higher than expected levels of chemical byproducts.

 

[Rossum]

looks like bad wicking on the Kayfun.

Silica! How quaint!

 

[anavidfan]

I think a few dry hits cant be any worse than driving past a major airport or 30 mins in traffic in southern calif.

What does worry me is those that start to vape and dont really quite know when they are getting dry/ dryish hits. I tried to get my brother to vape and showed him how to do everything etc. I kept showing him.

One day I asked him where was the gear I left him and he said its right there. Said he was getting a sore throat. I asked him are you sure there is liquid etc. He said yeah, I just filled it. I had left him with 3 of each per day. But he was still using the ones he started on the day I left.

He had been vaping on the same clearos and cartos and tanks I left him so he would not run out. He had vaped them like a maniac and it was clear fruity juice too. THey were so disgusting and so filthy. He would get lazy and keep puffing on them till they burned. He said he liked them better that way, he figured it was Throat hit, and it felt more like a cigarette to him than when I set them up. GO figure.

He went back to smoking... He was not getting the burn in his throat like he liked. I took the gear back...

 

[cinetrope]

It would seem that the long term benefits of using a TC device (I have an SX Mini) will more than offset the price, which amounted to about 30 day's worth of cigarettes in my case. Two months in and I have had zero dry hits.

 

[UncleChuck]

Has there ever been information released that would lead us to believe Dr Farsalinos knows anything about properly building a device, or that he is using someone that does? Serious question, not a dig, I'd just like some really convincing evidence that the devices being tested were built with a decent level of competency.

I can't remember the last time I've had a dry hit that wasn't a result of being absent minded and running a tank dry (and even those are few and far between) but I do fear that plenty of newer people are burning the crap out of their juice without really knowing any better. But again I refuse to associate this with higher power vaping, entry-level gear at low power levels are usually also known for dry hits and inconsistent coils.

I've gotten many people into vaping and usually they'll be excited about some new flavor and have me try their setup, and more often than not it tastes burnt as hell to me but they say they don't notice. And it isn't subohm tanks and crazy drippers they are using, it's clearos and egos at very modest power levels chucking out all that crispy toasty vapor.

I'm glad someone is putting effort into researching this but I'm really disappointed by the context in which his findings are often presented.

 

[WillyZee]

Wonder if they have tests done on smoking cigarettes down to the filter?

Haven't had a dry hit like that since I started vaping.


Sent via iPhone

 

[UncleChuck]

Or the dreaded backwards-lit cigarette, I still can't decide if that's better or worse than a dry hit on mesh

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Has there ever been information released that would lead us to believe Dr Farsalinos knows anything about properly building a device, or that he is using someone that does? Serious question, not a dig, I'd just like some really convincing evidence that the devices being tested were built with a decent level of competency.

I can't remember the last time I've had a dry hit that wasn't a result of being absent minded and running a tank dry (and even those are few and far between) but I do fear that plenty of newer people are burning the crap out of their juice without really knowing any better. But again I refuse to associate this with higher power vaping, entry-level gear at low power levels are usually also known for dry hits and inconsistent coils.

I've gotten many people into vaping and usually they'll be excited about some new flavor and have me try their setup, and more often than not it tastes burnt as hell to me but they say they don't notice. And it isn't subohm tanks and crazy drippers they are using, it's clearos and egos at very modest power levels chucking out all that crispy toasty vapor.

I'm glad someone is putting effort into researching this but I'm really disappointed by the context in which his findings are often presented.

He is not, as far as I know, a vaper but I think he has interaction with the evolv guys although I might be wrong. In any case, regardless of the details, the really important point of this is that aldehydes are not produced under 'normal' vaping conditions ie if you keep a wet wick and cahnge coils often enough you are good to go. This is, of course, a direct response to the previously published (and entirely spurious) work from others who suggested that e-cig use generally exposes to aldehydes at levels that aprroach or even exceed thos in tobacco cigs.

This is really important because in the future, studies claiming that e-cigs are damaging etc will hopefully be held up to far greater scrutiny, partuclalry in the labs that are doing the studies. Publishing cr@p is far worse than publishing nothing and if they know someone is going to chase these issues down in an experimentally superior way, they will be less likley to go to print with rubbish that they know can be robustly refuted by someone else!

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Or the dreaded backwards-lit cigarette, I still can't decide if that's better or worse than a dry hit on mesh

aw man, I had forgotten what that tasets like...yeeeeeuch..

 

[ignotus]

He is not, as far as I know, a vaper...

He's a vaper: he used it to quit smoking.

You can hear about it in the interview below, and at the very end see him do it (with a KFL+, in fact).

 

[AndriaD]

Has there ever been information released that would lead us to believe Dr Farsalinos knows anything about properly building a device, or that he is using someone that does? Serious question, not a dig, I'd just like some really convincing evidence that the devices being tested were built with a decent level of competency.

I can't remember the last time I've had a dry hit that wasn't a result of being absent minded and running a tank dry (and even those are few and far between) but I do fear that plenty of newer people are burning the crap out of their juice without really knowing any better. But again I refuse to associate this with higher power vaping, entry-level gear at low power levels are usually also known for dry hits and inconsistent coils.

I've gotten many people into vaping and usually they'll be excited about some new flavor and have me try their setup, and more often than not it tastes burnt as hell to me but they say they don't notice. And it isn't subohm tanks and crazy drippers they are using, it's clearos and egos at very modest power levels chucking out all that crispy toasty vapor.

I'm glad someone is putting effort into researching this but I'm really disappointed by the context in which his findings are often presented.

In that other thread, regarding the supposed dangers of torching or dry burning wire or coils, I ventured the opinion that he's never actually wrapped a coil, or he wouldn't say stupid things like "just wash it in ___" because washing it does not give it the ability to stay in its tightly wrapped shape -- without flaming the wire before wrapping, no matter how tightly you wrapped it, when you let go of it, it will SPROING! right out, to about an inch wide.

Andria

 

[cckayne]

He is not, as far as I know, a vaper

Farsalinos? Yes, he is a vaper. A confirmed one. See pbusardo's interview with him on YT.

 

[TheotherSteveS]

Farsalinos? Yes, he is a vaper. A confirmed one. See pbusardo's interview with him on YT.

you are right of course. I watched that vid a while ago but for some reason remembered he wasnt vaping. Forgot he had a toot at the end!! Anyway, he is a good guy and he is doing great work for this community!

 

[Millah]

In that other thread, regarding the supposed dangers of torching or dry burning wire or coils, I ventured the opinion that he's never actually wrapped a coil, or he wouldn't say stupid things like "just wash it in ___" because washing it does not give it the ability to stay in its tightly wrapped shape -- without flaming the wire before wrapping, no matter how tightly you wrapped it, when you let go of it, it will SPROING! right out, to about an inch wide.

Andria

I think he's just offering a suggestion . Not saying that it's easier to do than dry burning a coil. Just saying, avoid dry burning the coil, because it's something that's totally not necessary.

I never torch wire before wrapping. Ive never seen a need. If you wrap the wire tight enough to form itself into the shape of a coil, it will stay there. Maybe not as tight as you pulling tension, but close enough. I've always assumed glowing coils was kind of sketchy, so I always rinsed my coil after glowing as a precaution thinking it might help (apparently not). But the only time I ever dry burn a coil now is when I'm lazy and cleaning off gunk from the coil. I wrap my coils using screw threads, they come out perfectly spaced and ALWAYS glow evenly due to being spaced, so i no longer need to check for hotspots etc. I also prefer the way spaced coils vape, I feel like they wick better and also vaporize the wick more evenly rather than concentrating all the heat on a smaller space.

Basically, if you want to avoid heavy metal exposure to your system, then we need to stop being lazy and just make new coils. Heavy metal exposure builds over time. Part of the reason coils gunk is from inadequate wicking. It might be small enough to not taste as even a remotely "dry puff" but it's enough to slightly singe the wick and allow residue to build. If you see any charring on your cotton after a few tanks, then the wick is funking up the coil. Tank makers need to really focus on better coil saturation designs. Because I know in a tank like the UTA with massive juice openings, it takes a lot longer for a coil to gunk. These sub ohm clearos with huge juice holes also last longer than a little Protank coil that could barely wick anything above 10% VG.

 

[AndriaD]

I think he's just offering a suggestion . Not saying that it's easier to do than dry burning a coil. Just saying, avoid dry burning the coil, because it's something that's totally not necessary.

I never torch wire before wrapping. Ive never seen a need. If you wrap the wire tight enough to form itself into the shape of a coil, it will stay there. Maybe not as tight as you pulling tension, but close enough. I've always assumed glowing coils was kind of sketchy, so I always rinsed my coil after glowing as a precaution thinking it might help (apparently not). But the only time I ever dry burn a coil now is when I'm lazy and cleaning off gunk from the coil. I wrap my coils using screw threads, they come out perfectly spaced and ALWAYS glow evenly due to being spaced, so i no longer need to check for hotspots etc. I also prefer the way spaced coils vape, I feel like they wick better and also vaporize the wick more evenly rather than concentrating all the heat on a smaller space.

Basically, if you want to avoid heavy metal exposure to your system, then we need to stop being lazy and just make new coils. Heavy metal exposure builds over time. Part of the reason coils gunk is from inadequate wicking. It might be small enough to not taste as even a remotely "dry puff" but it's enough to slightly singe the wick and allow residue to build. If you see any charring on your cotton after a few tanks, then the wick is funking up the coil. Tank makers need to really focus on better coil saturation designs. Because I know in a tank like the UTA with massive juice openings, it takes a lot longer for a coil to gunk. These sub ohm clearos with huge juice holes also last longer than a little Protank coil that could barely wick anything above 10% VG.

My wicks gunk black in 2-3 days, but when I rinse them, they go back to totally white. No wick burning going on in MY kayfuns!

And I dislike replacing coils until the flavor dies, because breaking them in is tedious in the extreme. I'm just going to keep doing what I've been doing, because it works for me.

Andria