Is eCig hardware a free-for-all ripoff market, or are there patents in play?

[ColKurtz]

There are so many devices on the market that are identical, or almost so, yet have different names. eGos vs. Rivas vs. Tornados, for example: I would assume a patent would cover the design sufficiently that a slightly different battery size or difference in dimensions would still violate the original.

I know patent/copyright enforcement is lax in China, where e-cig hardware still originates from. So maybe there's little that can be done if ordering from China. However, for the U.S. retailers, the current climate so favors patent-holders that it would seem to be a simple matter to fire out cease-and-desist letters for selling "knock-off" products. I assume the U.S. retailers would rather resell "genuine" products than deal with a court case.

So what gives? I always thought Joye invented most of this stuff but I read somewhere Janty claims it created the eGo. Is anyone getting royalties on every 510 product, for example? Just curious.

 

[ericdjobs]

There would be so much prior art and easily proven prior art. I'm sure we will see our fair share of patent trolls.. matter of fact I believe there was already one... had to do with variable voltage. I believe it was the people or person who makes the Buzz and the Infinity.. they won a patent for a variable voltage PV, then tried to collect royalties from any company selling a VV PV, when there was prior art all over the place and more than likely the idea was gleamed from reading an ECF thread in the first place.. I wasn't around when it happened, I just remember reading about it... This sort of behavior is wrong in my opinion.

If you read the modders forum.. you see it happen from time to time. Someone will post their amazing new product/design, and a couple months later you'll see some random company selling a pre-fabricated version. This isn't inherently wrong (I personally believe the original designer deserves compensation, but others will disagree), but credit should at least be given. If the same random company were to take out a patent on said product, then turn around and issue cease and desist or royalty demands on everyone else selling it... total douche bag move.

I believe Ruyan, the original inventor of the e-cigarette, tried for a long time to collect royalties... but nobody was paying them. Chinese manufacturing isn't hampered by all the silly IP stuff that holds us back in the USA. They straight up ignore patents. If anyone is going to patent ANYTHING e-cig related and try to make a royalty claim, they better have records to show they've been paying Ruyan!

 

[VapPornRules]

Chinese manufacturing isn't hampered by all the silly IP stuff that holds us back in the USA. They straight up ignore patents.

I agree with you somewhat but the lack of patent/IP protection can also hamper innovation. People spend ALOT less money on R&D if they can't cash in down the road.

I mean, you could say - but look, there is immense innovation going on by modders, suppliers, etc., but think about it from the perspective of the suppliers. How much MORE might they spend on coming up with the perfect Carto if they knew they could hold exclusive rights on it? Why pay a team of engineers (or even 1 engineer!) tens or hundreds of thousands of $ when they will get maybe a couple of months of exclusive sales out of it?

Both systems have advantages and disadvantages.

 

[nocturn4l3030]

i always wondered about this tbh..so if someone were to come out with say.. a self feeding design like the eclipse or some everlasting cartomizer/atomizer...why "havent" companies/inventors started to patent their stuff?

with just a glance at the modders forum, theres.some neat .... over there, but for obvious reasons, theyre not posting designs, so its kind of sad to see.

 

[Uncle Willie]

The PV cat is out of the bag, essentially .. to step in now and attempt any sort of monetary collection would cost more than it was worth in legal, and even more in collection costs and enforcement .. and what do you patent .. ?? A battery .. ?? No .. Liquid .. ?? No .. An atty .. ?? Maybe .. A Carto .. Maybe ..

 

[VpnDrgn]

Another thing to consider, at least in regards to the mass produced stuff, is that a lot of the products ( Ego for example )
that look similar, do so because they are made by the same mnf and were just re-branded by a distributor.

 

[DC2]

Ruyan is actively pursuing their patent rights in the courts...
Dragonite/Ruyan files patent infringement lawsuit in US court against three companies
Dragonite (formerly Ruyan) v US lawsuit
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...cussion/149119-whats-all-patent-nonsense.html

 

[billo]

Dragonite (formerly Ruyan) stock is now selling near multi-year lows, if not all-time lows. It's selling at less than 10% of the high set a few years ago. The company is obviously not doing great.

 

[Thank You]

which came first the chicken or the egg

 

[DC2]

which came first the chicken or the egg

The chicken? No, no... the egg!! Wait....... what?

 

[fray]

There would be so much prior art and easily proven prior art. I'm sure we will see our fair share of patent trolls.. matter of fact I believe there was already one... had to do with variable voltage. I believe it was the people or person who makes the Buzz and the Infinity.. they won a patent for a variable voltage PV, then tried to collect royalties from any company selling a VV PV, when there was prior art all over the place and more than likely the idea was gleamed from reading an ECF thread in the first place.. I wasn't around when it happened, I just remember reading about it... This sort of behavior is wrong in my opinion.

If you read the modders forum.. you see it happen from time to time. Someone will post their amazing new product/design, and a couple months later you'll see some random company selling a pre-fabricated version. This isn't inherently wrong (I personally believe the original designer deserves compensation, but others will disagree), but credit should at least be given. If the same random company were to take out a patent on said product, then turn around and issue cease and desist or royalty demands on everyone else selling it... total douche bag move.

I believe Ruyan, the original inventor of the e-cigarette, tried for a long time to collect royalties... but nobody was paying them. Chinese manufacturing isn't hampered by all the silly IP stuff that holds us back in the USA. They straight up ignore patents. If anyone is going to patent ANYTHING e-cig related and try to make a royalty claim, they better have records to show they've been paying Ruyan!

I believe notcigs is still in a patent pending status. He did not try to collect royalties, but was required to inform other companies making products that fell into his patent aware of his pending patent.

I believe his intention is to license out to other VV makers

 

[BardicDruid]

Why do you think RJR Tobacco wants Ruyan so bad, they want the US patents. If they get ownership of them the first thing their going to do is file a complaint with the ITC to get e-cig hardware blocked based on patent infringement.

 

[Valsacar]

Keep in mind Ruyan didn't invent the e-cig, that was done sometime around 1950 (and a patent was issued for it). They did what a lot of Asian companies are very good at, took it and made it better (then called it a new product).

On the Janty/Joye thing, Janty is the designed (therefore the one that created it), Joye is the manufacturer (therefore the one that made it).

 

[Cool_Breeze]

The PV cat is out of the bag, essentially .. to step in now and attempt any sort of monetary collection would cost more than it was worth in legal, and even more in collection costs and enforcement .. and what do you patent .. ?? A battery .. ?? No .. Liquid .. ?? No .. An atty .. ?? Maybe .. A Carto .. Maybe ..

This world needs a good $5 carto with replaceable coil and wick.

 

[zoiDman]

I don’t think it is so much Patent Rip-Offs as it is OEM Branding.

Picture ONE Huge factory the size of Vermont that is churning out PVs in China. You want it in Lime Green. No problem. They just run you of 1,500 units and away you go. You want to call it the “FUBAR eGo”, they can laser etch that on it also.

Sure, there are knock offs out there. But I believe the Majority are traceable back to one OEM.