Is gouging good for the vaping community?

[BigErn]

(In response to OBs recent Zenesis sale-check it out in the classifieds)

Regardless of why someone purchased a PV, selling it used for double the price they paid is gouging. I have seen a few well-priced PVs on here in the last few weeks, but I have seen a LOT more listed at obscene prices. Personally I find this distasteful, but I guess I expected some of this. However, vaping is MUCH different than say, Beanie Babie collecting/selling. If anyone remembers that craziness. I like to think of the ECF as a support community, a group of strangers who have been brought together by something that is offering many of us a way out of the harms of smoking. With that, we have seen vaping evolve and progress tremendously over the years, and that pleases me. However, I think it is a bit shady when I see a "rare" device bought for $230-$240 retail, be used (or not used) for awhile, then listed here on the classifieds for $400-$500. Then seeing so many people giving the "GLWTS" for the seller, which just makes more people believe that is "just the way it is." Yes, it IS one thing to charge 100% more for a PV, and it is the SAME thing to charge 261% more. Regardless, I don't think it does much for the community. It definitely does something for the seller, and I have to accept that those people are probably not bothered by it in the least. Some see things differently than others, and I accept that also. Some see a chance to make money, and they take it. It is not dishonest or illegal, but it does leave a bad taste in my mouth. Does anybody really approve and respect the practice of ticket scalping? Has anyone ever gone up to a scalper selling a $42 ticket for $300 outside a stadium before a big college football game and said, "Hey man! Good luck with your ticket selling!" I myself have not. So, is this situation really all that different from what sometimes goes on in the classifieds with these "ultra rare devices?" Maybe so, or maybe not, but it creates a situation where "since they are all doing it, I might as well do it too." This takes some of the pleasure out of the world of vaping and cheapens it with the mentality of "This mod is so rare I bet I could sell it for triple what I paid," which I do not think is conducive to the progression of the vaping community or the ECF. I really like what OB has done here. It really surprised me when I read through this thread, and I felt like posting my thoughts on this issue. I really liked his comment where he said he might later even give one away because this is fun! Right on! It IS fun! Vaping has brought many of us from the fringes of society, where smoking is frowned upon, by the people around us and by our own bodies. Checking out the latest APVs, reading about people's DIY successes (and disasters!), tinkering around with coils on a RBA, and just plain swapping the spit with other vapers is fun! Getting a PV, using it for awhile, then selling it for a good price to another member who has been yearning to try it should be fun! Sure, some PVs are coveted for different reasons, and I understand when I see stuff like a Katana sold for $100 or so more than it was bought for. That does not bother me. When I see someone selling a "near mint" Zen Standard for $500, well, let's just say I'm not going to wish them any luck. Thank you OB. I hope that this type of mentality will spread to others, and that the ECF members who agree that the gouging has gone a bit too far will continue to speak up. Again, these are my own personal thoughts on this matter and I mean no offense towards anyone. Now, I'm going to go look at some mod porn! Cheers!

 

[Homedude]

I was once told that if I was a good member of this community, I should be happy to pay extra in order to support the other good people of this community who may be in need.

Load o' crap if you ask me.

 

[the ob]

Thanks for starting this.

I intended to, but have not yet had time today.

 

[asha23]

Don't fall for APV snobbery. If you want to know what that is, simply look at rnmreviews on YouTube. In my opinion people like him with his trust fund and ridiculous gurny vape face and his stupid rack of ugly, tasteless custom glass "drip tips" that cost his dad a fortune and frankly look utterly stupid pretty much represents everything that is APV snobbery.

Maybe he's being ironic.

I don't care about a stupid rich kid and his collection of expensive mods. It kinda makes me sick. Ooh.. Look at my mods... See how rich I am... Aspire to be me with my massive collection of expensive .... which all does pretty much the same thing. Ie vaporise nicotine..

The guy annoys me. He's just flashing his cash around under the pretence of doing reviews. I find it massively distasteful. Vaping is not about middle class aspiration. It's about not smoking cigarettes. If some person wants to pay double the cash for a mod, then it has nothing to do with vaping and everything to do with aspirational "gimme gimme"

One can only hope that the person who pays double for a Zenesis actually hates the device.

We can live in hope

And you know what. I'm happy with my ego twist. I bet rnmreviews will scorn me for that, with his stupid, fanboy attitude to vaping... It's not about having the most expensive stuff. It's about what works. I actually feel a bit sorry for him..

What's also quite amusing is I just picked up a great little rebuildable dripping atomiser for £13.99. It works great.

There are those who would never admit that a £13.99 rebuildable could in any way be as good as a £70 device which does EXACTLY the same thing.

I try to ignore these people. I have never looked at my PV as a fashion accessory. I just can't see the point. If something works. It works. Adding a $70 stupid ... glass drip tip to it doesn't make it any better. It just makes you look like a pretentious ....er.

Why would anyone pay $500 for a bit of steel tubing? OK stupid people might. Why would anyone spend well over a hundred bucks on custom glass drip tips? A stupid person might.

 

[charmed412]

I think the overpriced selling of things in the classifieds is getting way out of hand. When I joined ECF, I loved the classifieds. It gave me an opportunity to try things I couldn't afford to buy new. That doesn't happen much any more. The classifieds are now dominated by the latest and greatest must haves priced at new or more than new prices. I have sold a few things in the past week because I am not currently working and my medical expenses (no insurance) are killing me. But I priced them well. They are used so they were sold at used prices.

I am actually saddened by some of the things I have seen in this community in the last 6 months. When I started vaping, it was all about helping each other out and support. Now it seems to be about what you have. It's like high school and I am wearing the wrong clothes. I see a lot of "look what I have" and "you need this to be satisfied." Vaping is subjective and finding what works best for each of us used to be our primary goal. Finding what kept us off the stinkies. But now the vibe I am getting is all about showing off what you have. Do I have some nice vaping gear, yep sure do...but I don't feel the need to list what I have. I have what works for me.

I could have put my Empire up in the classifieds for more than twice that I paid for it and gotten my asking price and bought my meds easily. My empire is flawless and looks like the day I accidently bought it. But I didn't and I won't. First of all, I love it and it has nice memories of when I got it (VapeBash) but I wouldn't feel right about doing that to a fellow vaper no matter how much I need the money. If I was looking to make a profit from vapers, I would become a vendor.

okay somehow this became a novel but my point is that when I started, the vaping community was all about helping each other out and support. We were all one big vapey family......now it seems that it has become high school and cliquey with people only looking out for themselves and those in their cliques. It isn't as warm and fuzzy any more.....

 

[fray]

i agree with the OP but the insanity if fueled by people willing to pay those inordinate prices. If we stop buying then it will stop.

The main issue with regulating it is how much is too much? Who decides? I think that is the grey area that the leadership on the forum is unwilling to enter.

 

[Racehorse]

I think the overpriced selling of things in the classifieds is getting way out of hand.

Make a list of the sellers doing it, then you know who not to deal with.

I'd kinda rather KNOW who they are........

Then, don't buy from or sell to them, don't bump their ads, etc.

I have a list of bad doctors, dentists, and tradesmen in my region, it's been infinitely helpful knowing who NOT to deal with as it is knowing who to deal with......process of elimination.

If we "regulate" then the offenders won't be "outed".

 

[zoiDman]

I say if a Buyer is willing to Pay More for a Used Item than it Costs New, so be it.

How is the ECF supposed to stop it even if they wanted to?

 

[charmed412]

I don't see it as an issue for ECF to deal with. If someone wants to pay that price, go ahead. I won't but some will and that is their choice. But I can choose who I deal with and who I won't deal with. At some point there will be enough who won't and it will stop...for a while.....

 

[BigErn]

To zoiDman, I never said that the ECF should "stop" the gouging, I only meant to state my thoughts on the whole "rare APV phenomenon," and how it seems to be affecting the vaping community in a negative manner. I cringe at the thought of this little niche becoming something of a "collectable market." This has happened already with sneakers. I have tons of sneakers, and I used to love finding unique pairs in stores, on ebay, but now, with sites like "Hypebeast," you have people scouting out the dates of release, how many produced, which stores will/will not be carrying them, then people go and buy as many pairs of the popular sizes they can afford or are allowed (some nice stores have put limits on purchases, but then a guy gets his mate, his girl, his brother, etc. to buy them), then wait until word is out that they are sold out everywhere, then list them on ebay for insane prices. It has taken all of the fun out of it for me. What seems to be happening here on the ECF is quite similar, in my opinion. Additionally, as I stated before, some people are subconsciously infected by this mentality and it goes from "I think I'd like to try a Genesis-style hybrid or RBA," to "I heard that there will be a new limited edition Zenesis released on the so and so and I am going to get four if I can, then when they are gone I can sell three to cover the price of the one I'm keeping AND make a big profit." Granted, that scenario is a bit dramatic, but I believe this does happen to an extent. With all do respect, we as humans can apply the "so be it" philosophy to anything and everything that we don't agree with but don't feel like having conflict to resolve it or help to progress. Again, I have NEVER seen somebody post "Nice device, but that price is ridiculous" on some overpriced classified sale. I am not claiming to have a ready-made solution in mind, but I do feel the need to finally speak up and ask "What the hell is going on here!?" Yes, I DO believe this was and should be a community of support. I DO think it should be fun. Finally, I am hopeful that enough members feel the same way, and that we strive to create that environment once again. I have been reading posts on the ECF for a little over a year. I just recently joined because I wanted to be a part of the community, not just an observer. I think that vaping and it's community absolutely needs to always be progressing. -Ern

 

[zoiDman]

To zoiDman, I never said that the ECF should "stop" the gouging, I only meant to state my thoughts on the whole "rare APV phenomenon," and how it seems to be affecting the vaping community in a negative manner. I cringe at the thought of this little niche becoming something of a "collectable market." This has happened already with sneakers. I have tons of sneakers, and I used to love finding unique pairs in stores, on ebay, but now, with sites like "Hypebeast," you have people scouting out the dates of release, how many produced, which stores will/will not be carrying them, then people go and buy as many pairs of the popular sizes they can afford or are allowed (some nice stores have put limits on purchases, but then a guy gets his mate, his girl, his brother, etc. to buy them), then wait until word is out that they are sold out everywhere, then list them on ebay for insane prices. It has taken all of the fun out of it for me. What seems to be happening here on the ECF is quite similar, in my opinion. Additionally, as I stated before, some people are subconsciously infected by this mentality and it goes from "I think I'd like to try a Genesis-style hybrid or RBA," to "I heard that there will be a new limited edition Zenesis released on the so and so and I am going to get four if I can, then when they are gone I can sell three to cover the price of the one I'm keeping AND make a big profit." Granted, that scenario is a bit dramatic, but I believe this does happen to an extent. With all do respect, we as humans can apply the "so be it" philosophy to anything and everything that we don't agree with but don't feel like having conflict to resolve it or help to progress. Again, I have NEVER seen somebody post "Nice device, but that price is ridiculous" on some overpriced classified sale. I am not claiming to have a ready-made solution in mind, but I do feel the need to finally speak up and ask "What the hell is going on here!?" Yes, I DO believe this was and should be a community of support. I DO think it should be fun. Finally, I am hopeful that enough members feel the same way, and that we strive to create that environment once again. I have been reading posts on the ECF for a little over a year. I just recently joined because I wanted to be a part of the community, not just an observer. I think that vaping and it's community absolutely needs to always be progressing. -Ern

I know that I have sold MANY things on e-Bay that were used and I got New or More than New Prices for them.

Kinda Blows your Mind. But that is e-Bay and some people have enough Money that paying Extra isn't a Big Deal.

Also, here on the ECF I think sometimes people are so Happy to Not be a Smoker anymore, that Money isn't the Only consideration.

I once sold some 510 Batteries here on the ECF once and the person who bought them sent me $20 extra. When I asked them why they sent the Extra Money, they told me that they had read some of my Posts giving suggestions and Help and liked them.

So I dunno, it's hard to say why someone would Pay Big $$$ for a used item.

And your right. The ECF should Not step in a Regulate it at all. The Market can set what the Market wants to pay.

 

[Berylanna]

To zoiDman, I never said that the ECF should "stop" the gouging, I only meant to state my thoughts on the whole "rare APV phenomenon," and how it seems to be affecting the vaping community in a negative manner. I cringe at the thought of this little niche becoming something of a "collectable market." This has happened already with sneakers. -Ern

The sneaker story is weird and sad and funny.

Maybe what we need is a new Classified subforum called "Collectors' Forum"

Then neither collectors nor non-collectors have to wade through each others' stuff.

If the mods are hand-made in my own country, by local guys, I don't have the money to collect them but if someone else does, hey, local jobs! Beats buying another 3 pairs of machine-made shoes.

 

[charmed412]

No one posts "Nice device, but that price is ridiculous" on the classifieds because it isn't allowed......

 

[rondasherrill]

I have heard ALOT about the price gouging and all that activity in the classifieds... That is why I have ZERO drive to bother with getting "Verified". Hand over my personal info on the internet so I can pay twice as much as retail? No thanks.

That having been said, if you want to see an example of people helping people on the ECF, check out the PIF sub forum, which is the link in my signature. Best group of people I have ever associated myself with.

 

[Huffelpuff]

I think that the buying/selling at rediculous prices will eventually slow down as a natural progression of the vaping community. When I started vaping I literally went nuts as I "had to have" the latest thing out. Now that my cig addiction is nearly cured, so is my obsession with the vape toys. Manufacturers will continue to produce, new products will replace the old, and the surplus of available products and pvs will stop the supply/demand issue.

I will add that I do not think that ECF should be in the business of regulating pricing. The moderators here are already busy enough keeping this a nice forum to be a part of.. they don't need to tell people how to use common sense in spending their own money. If a buyer wants to overpay.. that is their perogative.

I see both sides but feel that freedom comes with personal responsibility.

 

[kwalka]

I am an avid believer in everything ECF and vaping stands for. As I progressed from the 808s to eGos, I was so amazed that I was able to drop a 2+ PAD habit overnight, that I felt that it was my duty to share this wonderfull new device with as many smokers as possible. I split up and gave away all my 808s to 2 diff people. I ordered ECF cards and carried them w me everywhere and approached smokers and showed them what I had and told them what it did for me ( I still do today). Fast forward to 2 months ago. I started into the higher end stuff along w RBAs and fell even further in love. The other day I had a fairly inexpensive mod listed for a couple of days and another member who was going thru some hard times asked me to hold the mod for a month or 2. I insisted he send me his addy and I told him I would send it to him and he should send me $25 (less than 1/2 of the listed price) whenever the time came that he could, and all I asked in return was that someday he pay it forward when he is in a better place. Several times over the past 2 months I have sent out free envelopes to other members with wire and mesh in them, because they had new Genny attys and could not get supplies. The point of this is not "oh look how great I am". The point of this is, this is what this community is all about. Looking out for each other and helping each other out. I came into some cash and I bought a bunch of the higher priced collectors APVs. The other day I bought a RBA for $350 and found out the next day it retails for $138. Nobody twisted my arm, but I will not take part in this highway robbery anymore.
OB, I tilt my hat to you for taking the first step.
Today I was in contact with an ECF mod and I was told that after yrs of back and forth among them there will be nothing done about this issue.
I had 3 listings up over the past 2 days. Today I pulled them all. I have been using my $3000 collection of high end mods for a couple of weeks now and I'm ready to sell off what I dont care for and keep what I do. Which, BTW, was the plan from the beginning. I will be selling these for what I paid, and some I will sell at a loss. I also have a few new APVs directly from foreign suppliers and these will be sold for exactly what I paid.
Before any of these items get sold I will figure out a way to be sure that all my stuff goes to members who will actually use and enjoy these products. They will not be used for anybody to make any profit.

I also propose that we have a seperate type of listing. Which has already started to happen in the past 2 days. It will be something along the lines of "at cost" or restricted buyers only. These rich boys that have more mods than whoever you believe in are more than welcome to play their little game of my collection is bigger than yours, but it has no place amongst the true ECFers.
Some of the high end suppliers such as Imeo from GG and Zen of the infamous Zenesis, have already started to ramp up production, and as such we are seeing the number of those devices in the classies spiking because these profiteers know there days of sticking it to us are numbered. Supply and demand will help to slow this racket down. The rest of the way is up to us to handle because ECF has made it clear they wont.

 

[bjannr]

I am glad OB started this off. I like the classifieds, and I think it is up to each person to decide what they will spend. I also think it is wrong to buy items just with the intent of making a profit off of us. Tne members who do this regularly should be registered suppliers.

 

[vsummer1]

I have to say that as a newbie trying to get some good vaping gear I used the classified's to try to learn what was what. I saw some things I liked, but googled them to find out if there was a review. I found out the ProVari's were ON SALE for a LOT less than people were selling them for used! I was under the impression I might find something at a good price used. I was sadly mistaken.

The only reason I even own a ProVari is because the chrome blem's were on sale, and I figured another opportunity like that wouldn't come around any time soon. I certainly couldn't get it used here for what I paid ProVape for it NEW with a warranty. They are on sale for $159 without the blemish for heaven's sake, but I saved an extra bit getting a blemished one. I feel very, very sorry for the people who don't do research and end up over paying out of naivete. It so easily could have been me. I HAVE to watch my pennies and I ONLY buy on sale. But as a nicotine addict, I appreciate the fact that I will be saving money in the future by buying something that will stand the test of time. I started DIY juice to save money. I enter the contests, and when I win I also purchase something from the vendor out of gratitude for their generosity.

Would I like to try a Darwin or a Reo? Absolutely I would. Will I be able to pay for one at the prices they go for? Nope. I have no way to justify it like I did the ProVari. If I am lucky, maybe I will win one of the box style mods in a contest in order to try one out. If not, I will use my ProVari and my eGo's and be just fine.

I look and look and compare prices at all kinds of websites. I really want a glass tank, and I hear the Phiniac is a good one, I love the way it looks. I was going to wait a while to find one but I may just buy one soon, but ONLY because it is for the lady who is a member of the community and has cancer, with the proceeds going to help her. I don't know her, I have never dealt with her. But everyone here seems to hold her in great esteem so I am willing to help out while still getting the item for the same price as anywhere else. I haven't pulled the trigger on it because of the money issue, but am hoping to be able to. I see it as a win/win.

I guess what I am trying to say is I am glad I have to watch my pennies while still trying to get the best equipment, because if not I would have been taken to the cleaners by some of these re-sellers.

 

[NancyR]

I have been using my $3000 collection of high end mods for a couple of weeks now and I'm ready to sell off what I dont care for and keep what I do. Which, BTW, was the plan from the beginning. I will be selling these for what I paid, and some I will sell at a loss. I also have a few new APVs directly from foreign suppliers and these will be sold for exactly what I paid.
Before any of these items get sold I will figure out a way to be sure that all my stuff goes to members who will actually use and enjoy these products. They will not be used for anybody to make any profit.

While I think it is great you want to do this, many of the people that really could use something like that won't be able to afford it even with you not trying to make any money off it.

There really is no easy answer for these problems. Unless you know the person, you have no way of knowing if they are telling you the truth or not. Meanwhile hopefully threads like these will help educate the newer people coming to ECF so they don't get taken advantage of.

 

[vsummer1]

I have heard ALOT about the price gouging and all that activity in the classifieds... That is why I have ZERO drive to bother with getting "Verified". Hand over my personal info on the internet so I can pay twice as much as retail? No thanks.

That having been said, if you want to see an example of people helping people on the ECF, check out the PIF sub forum, which is the link in my signature. Best group of people I have ever associated myself with.

I just want to say that finding the PIF thread is so difficult! I did find it once, then again with a banner like yours. I read through it and think it is a great thing. I just don't have anything to pay forward yet, I have several juices that I don't like, but read I should let them age a bit before I decide I really don't like them. I started mixing my own and am waiting on them to get good enough to vape. THANK YOU FOR YOUR BANNER, it helps newbies like me find it.

As soon as I have something to pay forward, I plan on participating. I will have quite a collection of flavors I don't care for and hope someone can use.