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Is my local shop just being crazy? (FDA regulations)

Discussion in 'FDA Regulations' started by Ketsuban, Oct 31, 2017.

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  1. Ketsuban

    Ketsuban Full Member

    Feb 20, 2014
    So the one place I usually buy my juice from has put in place a dramatically reduced menu, of which I understand because an application has to be submitted for each mix and flavor... which is frustrating because they won't mix flavors that aren't on their menu (like combining pineapple and orange to make pineapple orange when both those ingredients are)

    I know this is starting to get crazy, and I honestly don't know how the Feds will handle every. single. application from all the shops around the country, don't they already have enough stuff to be (not) doing?

    Now, when I hear nothing except delay delay delay, the shop is blaming regulations on no longer offering custom nic levels (I used to get 2 or 4mg) and now they're trying to offer only 12, 9, 6, 3, and 0. They're also claiming that they can't help us set up new equipment (which doesn't bother me as much because I've been vaping for almost 4 years and YouTube exists, but I worry for the newbies) and that they can't provide any assistance whatsoever in building coils.

    These rules keep getting stricter and stricter from the shop and they blame it on the FDA when nothing seems to be passing. Is it my imagination? Is there any truth to all of this? I'd just love a clear answer because this is super frustrating, thanks! Also curious to what has bugged you the most regarding the regulations?
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    There are a c ouple of issues here. First, you cannot blame a shop for wanting to make sure they follow the regulations. The FDA can shut them down through non compliance fines and more and their business is their livelihood - if it were me I wouldn't push the envelope either.

    That said, some rules they are following may be state laws and have nothing to do with the FDA... case in point, in some states it is outright illegal to sell e liquid in strengths higher than 12 mg. So some laws will vary from state to state, depending upon each states laws. And states are highly likely to enforce their own laws.

    Also- your shop may be going on old information where concerns helping people put together kits. Here is an article which also links to the new FDA guidelines which illustrates this change

    Good news for vape shops (and it's from the FDA!) - Vaping360

    You might like to print this out and share it with your shop, as well as the FDA rules on the matter. It may just be some old information they are going off of.

    Where concerns laws that were passed at your states level, you will have to look those up as those are separate from the FDA regulations..
    • Like Like x 1
    • Agree Agree x 1
  3. Ketsuban

    Ketsuban Full Member

    Feb 20, 2014
    Thanks for your reply and that makes sense. I wasn't really blaming them for following regulations, as yeah I know that can put them out of business if they don't. It was more like they seem to be getting lazier and lazier when some other places I've heard of aren't nearly as strict- the other 99% of shops here basically. More like they seem to be using this as an excuse to not do things that seem legitimate and legal, and I was trying to figure out how legitimate their interpretation is considering all my research has turned up inconclusive.
    • Like Like x 2
  4. Opinionated

    Opinionated Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Aug 19, 2015
    Well like I said, print out the article as well the guidelines and see if it changes how they conduct their business. .

    If it doesn't then you know its just laziness.
    • Agree Agree x 1
  5. retired1

    retired1 Administrator Admin Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 5, 2013
    If you look closely at the "guidance", even putting in a new coil can land them in hot water.

    Unless it's a drop in coil that's identical to the one being replaced, shops aren't going to be rebuilding anything for customers at this point. Has absolutely nothing to do with laziness. It has everything to do with the restrictions and what could happen if there was even a .1 ohm difference in the new coil being put in.

    Brick and mortar stores who are trying to get their act together will definitely not offer "custom" mixes. Nor will they offer to rebuild as the potential for getting into hot water with the Feds is just too great.

    I should also add that if you do find a shop that ignores all the FDA regulation, stay far away from them as they're not in it for the long haul. They're just going to take the money and run if the hammer comes down on them.
    • Agree Agree x 2
    • Disagree Disagree x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Rossum

    Rossum Surly Curmudgeon Verified Member ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Dec 14, 2013
    SE PA
    Or perhaps they're just trying to serve their customers as well as they can, for as long as they can.

    At present, the FDA doesn't seem to have much enthusiasm for enforcing those parts of the deeming that are already in effect.
    • Agree Agree x 4
    • Like Like x 1
  7. 1/2 fast

    1/2 fast Super Member ECF Veteran

    Dec 3, 2013
    SW Ohio
    I agree and suspect this is pretty common. My go to shop for juice is practically a one man show and he knows he may be on borrowed time but can’t afford the proposed regulatory process. So he’s just going to continue as long as he can. Good guy, good shop, great juice. Gonna be a loss if he has to shutter his doors.
    • Agree Agree x 2
  8. Beamslider

    Beamslider Vaping Master Verified Member ECF Veteran

    May 29, 2017
    San Francisco
    Dedicated Vape shops in this area all have up signs for a year that they can no longer build coils for customers based on Deeming regulations. They also only sell premade sealed bottles of brand name juices.
    • Optimistic Optimistic x 1
  9. Walee

    Walee Super Member ECF Veteran

    Oct 6, 2017
    The FDA is looking at this from their existing stance per medical equipment IMHO. I was in the medical instrumentation industry and jumped through hoops of fire to ensure that the equipment was kept exactly as manufactured and registered with the FDA. I had to be able to prove that after every repair the equipment was exactly as originally released. Hence the reticence of shops to assist in building coils. These are considered to be undocumented modifications. Same with juice for that mater. I was a bit surprised that the FDA didn't stomp harder on user modifiable devices. Don't get me wrong, I have no wish for them to do so but they are guberment (sorry I'm trying very hard not to become political but some things are just a blinding glimpse of the blatantly obvious). Their logic in itself isn't that bad, it just doesn't happen to fit the industry. One size again that just doesn't quit fit all.
    • Like Like x 2
    • Agree Agree x 2
  10. Bill Godshall

    Bill Godshall Executive Director
    Smokefree Pennsylvania
    ECF Veteran

    Supporting member
    Apr 2, 2009
    Over three million vapor products (mostly e-liquids) have been registered with FDA.
    So there are still lots of options for different products.

    While it will take FDA many more months (or years) before it actively enforces the
    Deeming Rule's product registrations (whose purpose was/is to authorize that the product
    was on the market on 8/8/2016), most vapor manufacturers in the US have stopped
    selling vapor products that they didn't register with the FDA.
    • Informative Informative x 1
    • Useful Useful x 1
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