Is the ecig industry changing its message?

[patkin]

Strongly agree with you. I think this is exactly why, for some, a cigalike works best actually... at least in the beginning stages. I also think its why even though vaping for many months, when major stress hits, its a smoke that's turned to. Its most definitely not for nicotine. Truly, what defeats many vapers is the fiddle factor and the lack of the behavioral size in hand. I can't count the posts I've seen by those who vaped and went back to smoking only to return here. They certainly had enough nicotine vaping. njoy, IMHO, provides what a smoker needs in every way but, so far, they're too expensive. I think the way of the future wil be disposables. I look forward to competition in that area. I hope to see some real competition with Njoy both in quality and price.

Edit: forgot to say. I am currently using Njoy to turn to in times of stress because my big rigs don't do it for me then. But I'll continue looking for a cheaper alternative that supplies what my brain needs then... next one I'm going to try is an eroll... just for economic reasons.

 

[wv2win]

Idk... I'm just talking from personal experience, but nicotine withdrawal is the easy part out quitting, imho. It's out of your system in 72 hours. After you get past that three day window, all of the discomforts associated with quitting are psychological. I'm sure you have tried to do cold turkey, and so have I... But having the knowledge that I was no longer chemically addicted to nicotine was no reassurance to me! And slapping on a patch didn't do a thing to settle me either. So clearly, its wasn't a chemical dependency causing my cravings. It was that little alarm in my head saying "ok time to smoke!" and looking forward to smoke breaks, and being in social situations where other people are smoking.. all of it would trigger my memory and make me want to indulge. And its that feeling of having to fight myself and having to muster up all this discipline all the time... With my ecig I am free from all of that. And I do not feel that its simply because I'm getting the nicotine... It's because my brain "feels" that I am smoking and is satisfied.

Personally, I think the power of nicotine addiction is WAY overtrumped and its a conspiracy. It's propaganda to promote both BT and BP. I'm not denying that its nearly impossible to quit, but I really believe it is not the chemical dependency that binds us. If it were, than traditional NRT therapy would have a much better success rate.

I know it sounds really dumb but I truly feel that what we are really addicted to, is feeling something fill our lungs, and watching come out. I can not tell you how many times I have been smoking a cig, looking at it, and saying to myself, "Man this sucks. It doesn't even taste good, and it smells even worse. Why am I doing this, I hate it. I can't believe I paid for this, man I'm dumb". But if I'm addicted to the feeling of my lungs being filled and watching something come out.. WHAT CHOICES DID I HAVE? Until the inception of ecigs on the market, there have been no simulated smoking devices, or anything of the like. It's truly a revolutionary idea. And I would love to see a double blind experiment with a test group using zero nic. I'd bet money that you would see successful quits resulting from nicotine and non nicotine groups.

Just my two cents. Hanging up my thinking cap for the day now.

I agree with you on the part about the chemical dependency of nicotine not really being the problem as that dissipates rather quickly. But it is the nicotine that provides 90+% of the throat hit, which mimics the inhaled feel of smoking. 0 nicotine = vaping air. If I can't trick my mind/body into "feeling" like I am still smoking, then vaping is a waste of time and money and not effective.

 

[hottierockstar]

It seems to me that anyone that only offers tobacco and menthol flavors is preparing to throw us under the bus to satisfy the FDA.

that was the one part of their site that bugged me....that sweets only appeal to children.
njoy is only available in tobacco/menthol. I am not a cigalike expert, haven't even looked at them beyond a tv commercial/website...are the others available in flavors?

it isn't throwing "me" under the bus....i am an adult *vaper*...i'm not a smoker (i was) or "an ecig smoker"

the blu commercial was on twice last night...it says at the bottom at the beginning "available with no nicotine"...hadn't noticed that before.....

maybe i worded that wrong, 3rd shifter that just woke up deciding to post on the forums, so smart huh lol

lmao...i feel ya

see....
just a thought....if BT is out to get "us"....how come they aren't out to get the RYO smokers?

 

[patkin]

I agree with you on the part about the chemical dependency of nicotine not really being the problem as that dissipates rather quickly. But it is the nicotine that provides 90+% of the throat hit, which mimics the inhaled feel of smoking. 0 nicotine = vaping air. If I can't trick my mind/body into "feeling" like I am still smoking, then vaping is a waste of time and money and not effective.

No it isn't. The PG provides TH as well as other ingredients in the juice like pepper. Some mixologists are so good with pepper that you don't even know its there taste-wise. My ADV contains roasted pepper flavoring (probably not detectable by those not DIYin themselves) and the zero nic hits as well as the 12mg. I have not tried it in 100%VG though so can't say how much of the hit is from my usual 70%PG. Step over to the DIY section to see just how many flavorings provide TH, some too much for me, especially the tobacco flavorings. Everyone knows cinnamon and ginger do of course and some know they can actually burn if too strong. TH = irritation... flavorings and PG can do that... nicotine not required. I read about the mixologist Njoy hired to make their signature disposable. The guy is a genius and Njoy would provide plenty of TH minus the nic.

 

[shatner]

Those ads are all for the brands made by Big Tobacco. Get the point?

Big Tobacco isn't the "e-cig industry". Not yet anyway. Their message is not our message.

These

10char

 

[SharonMM]

that was the one part of their site that bugged me....that sweets only appeal to children.
njoy is only available in tobacco/menthol. I am not a cigalike expert, haven't even looked at them beyond a tv commercial/website...are the others available in flavors?

it isn't throwing "me" under the bus....i am an adult *vaper*...i'm not a smoker (i was) or "an ecig smoker"

the blu commercial was on twice last night...it says at the bottom at the beginning "available with no nicotine"...hadn't noticed that before.....
lmao...i feel ya

see....
just a thought....if BT is out to get "us"....how come they aren't out to get the RYO smokers?

The FDA banned the sale of all flavored tobacco exception for menthol. NJOY is likely anticipating the regulation of e liquid so following suit with current laws for tobacco.

 

[Tiffany Smeggin Peak]

that was the one part of their site that bugged me....that sweets only appeal to children.
njoy is only available in tobacco/menthol. I am not a cigalike expert, haven't even looked at them beyond a tv commercial/website...are the others available in flavors?

it isn't throwing "me" under the bus....i am an adult *vaper*...i'm not a smoker (i was) or "an ecig smoker"

the blu commercial was on twice last night...it says at the bottom at the beginning "available with no nicotine"...hadn't noticed that before.....
lmao...i feel ya

see....
just a thought....if BT is out to get "us"....how come they aren't out to get the RYO smokers?

on the RYO part, i RYO'ed when i was a stay at home mom and lived in Cali. before it was super cheap to buy a can of bali-shag or other yummy ones, but somehow they did make the good tobacco more than regular premades.... you can still buy pipe tobacco for cheap, but it messes up equipment and tastes soooooo gross!!
BTW this time I am awake i think lol

 

[hottierockstar]

The FDA banned the sale of all flavored tobacco exception for menthol. NJOY is likely anticipating the regulation of e liquid so following suit with current laws for tobacco.

good lord....i had other reasons for disliking the FDA but seriously....sooo ridiculous (i had no idea)
i won't rant on about the FDA as i would for certain be preaching to the choir....

 

[wv2win]

No it isn't. The PG provides TH as well as other ingredients in the juice like pepper. Some mixologists are so good with pepper that you don't even know its there taste-wise. My ADV contains roasted pepper flavoring (probably not detectable by those not DIYin themselves) and the zero nic hits as well as the 12mg. I have not tried it in 100%VG though so can't say how much of the hit is from my usual 70%PG. Step over to the DIY section to see just how many flavorings provide TH, some too much for me, especially the tobacco flavorings. Everyone knows cinnamon and ginger do of course and some know they can actually burn if too strong. TH = irritation... flavorings and PG can do that... nicotine not required. I read about the mixologist Njoy hired to make their signature disposable. The guy is a genius and Njoy would provide plenty of TH minus the nic.

Sorry to disappoint you, but if that was true for the majority of vapers, EVERYONE would be using it and vaping 0 nicotine eliquid. I and many of us vets having been testing eliquids additives for 3 - 4 years to determine if any additive can exactly duplicate the throat hit created by nicotine. The results were ZERO. Some additives like pepper do provide a big BURNING irritation in the throat but do not match the TH from nicotine.

Again, so you understand the "logic". IF additives truely duplicated the TH from nicotine nearly EVERYONE would be using it and it would be flying off the shelves and plastered all over ECF about this wonderful new additives that allows you to vape 0 nic and get the same TH that nicotine provides.

I"m glad it works for you, but it doesn't and won't for most. And FYI, you sound like an employee of Njoy.

 

[SharonMM]

Well shoot, I guess I concede. While I do not need the nicotine for chemical dependency, I guess I do need it for the simulated throat hit. That's a drag, pardon the pun.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[wv2win]

Well shoot, I guess I concede. While I do not need the nicotine for chemical dependency, I guess I do need it for the simulated throat hit. That's a drag, pardon the pun.

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

There is a small minority that have adjusted to using additives to give themselves some "throat sensation" enough to vape 0 nic, even though it is not the same as TH from nicotine. It just won't be anything like the TH from nicotine. If you are committed to reducing, it might work for you. My suggestion is to try some menthol eliquid or add some to a low nic eliquid. It does provide a throat sensation that you may grow to like enough to keep reducing your nic level.

 

[DeeDee1234]

The FDA banned the sale of all flavored tobacco exception for menthol. NJOY is likely anticipating the regulation of e liquid so following suit with current laws for tobacco.

Since when?

 

[SharonMM]

http://www.fda.gov/TobaccoProducts/ProtectingKidsfromTobacco/FlavoredTobacco/default.htm

Sent from my HTCEVOV4G using Tapatalk 2

 

[DC2]

Since when?

Since September 22, 2009... see link in post above.

 

[patkin]

"I"m glad it works for you, but it doesn't and won't for most. And FYI, you sound like an employee of Njoy. "

Thank you... it does work very well for me. On the Njoy employee... Oh, really?... just because I like them? Check out my posts and my join date. I just tried two of them (Bold plain and menthol) this week. Am I to take your comment as a besmirching one? That would be sad if we members can't state our honest opinions without being accused of being fan boys or spammers. If there's anything you would gather, if you care to take the time, from reading my posts, its that I'm quite out spoken and honest... even opinionated at times. Of course we all are at times... aren't we?

Edit: check out this thread
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/fo...-king-question-about-cheaper-disposables.html

 

[SharonMM]

Well taking that all into consideration, I actually feel it would be wise for privately owned domestic ecig/juice manufacturers to stop touting the product as a smoking altenative, and to cease adding nicotine to the juice. I think the best thing to do is settle for it being a recreational novelty. This will avoid a lot of public scrutiny and not fall under the authority of the FDA. Since there is no drug to be debated, it is not their concern.

I pretty much think the writing is on the wall.. BT has their products in place and are taking precaution to avoid the whole "marketing to children" argument and I hope and pray this not to happen, but every other tobacco and nicotine containing substance in this IS regulated by the FDA. So how is it that ecigs have beat the rap for this long is a little confusing for me.

Eta, I do hope we can all agree tone down the besmirching and what not. (awesome word, btw!) This has been great, informative, thought provoking debate and I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input here. I'd hate to see it derail as these controversial-ish threads tend to do....

 

[MiamiMom63]

We have a commercial of a local B&M that airs alot. I see the other commercials as more of a way of letting smokers know there are alternatives. I don't see anything glamorous about it. I think it's good to get the word out. I mean let's face it, did any of us start smoking cause of a commercial?

 

[MiamiMom63]

Well taking that all into consideration, I actually feel it would be wise for privately owned domestic ecig/juice manufacturers to stop touting the product as a smoking altenative, and to cease adding nicotine to the juice. I think the best thing to do is settle for it being a recreational novelty. This will avoid a lot of public scrutiny and not fall under the authority of the FDA. Since there is no drug to be debated, it is not their concern.

I pretty much think the writing is on the wall.. BT has their products in place and are taking precaution to avoid the whole "marketing to children" argument and I hope and pray this not to happen, but every other tobacco and nicotine containing substance in this IS regulated by the FDA. So how is it that ecigs have beat the rap for this long is a little confusing for me.

Eta, I do hope we can all agree tone down the besmirching and what not. (awesome word, btw!) This has been great, informative, thought provoking debate and I appreciate everyone's thoughts and input here. I'd hate to see it derail as these controversial-ish threads tend to do....

Am I reading this right? You don't think vaping is an alternative or that nic should be added to juice? For me, it is extremely an alternative to smoking and if there was no nic, I probably would be still smoking. I really avoid anything negative but did you smoke alot before you vaped? If so, how much? Just curious since you don't think there should be nic in it. Thanks. Just asking

 

[MiamiMom63]

Also, I use alcohol based organics which give great throat hit and have been able to get down to 8 mg nic with satisfactory throat hit. With cigs we can't decrease nic unless we smoke less, which was fruitless for me. Lol. So yea, vaping is an alternative and allows me to lower my nic and still be satisfied. 8 mg is equal to a step 3 nicoderm patch. I tried those patches alot and never could get down to step 3. Lol.

 

[kristin]

It seems the official ecig industry position on vaping has previously been it should only be done by tobacco smokers who are trying to reduce their exposure to harmful components in tobacco smoke. But after seeing quite a few TV ads for electronic cigarettes, it doesn't look like they are focusing on that message but rather glamorizing the act of vaping. Happy, good looking, and sometimes celebrities vaping away with no discussion of harm reduction. Is the industry message starting to shift or is it simply there isn't enough time to discuss these issues in a 30 second spot?

E-cigarette companies are forbidden to make any health claims. This includes claiming that their product is safer than smoking. A company must apply and be approved in order to make the claim that their tobacco or tobacco-derived product is a MRTP (modified risk tobacco product.) However, even with over 3,000 applications for novel tobacco products, the FDA hasn't approved even one of them. So, since they cannot truthfully claim that e-cigarettes can help people quit smoking or that e-cigarettes are far less harmful than smoking, they are limited in what they can say. What is left is what you see in the commercials - that e-cigarettes are for when you can't smoke or are a smoke-free alternative. So it's not that they don't want to give that message - they simply can't without FDA approval.

The reason you see an attempt to make e-cigarettes seem more "cool" isn't just some "Big Tobacco" conspiracy. Most smokers think e-cigarettes are pretty goofy-looking and that people (or fellow smokers) will give them a hard time for using it. As most of us know, this is mostly true. So, just as any other product with an image problem, the companies trying to sell their product are trying to make them less awkward and uncool. Alcohol, cars, electronics, clothing, sporting goods, drinks, nicotine gums/patches/lozenges and even adult diapers have used the same methods. For people to say "what do you expect, it's Big Tobacco" is just, well, silly. E-cig mod designers have been selling their wares on the "cool factor" for years now. There is a whole side industry selling graphics and bling to up to coolness-factor of plain old e-cigs. Cool and glamor sells.

FWIW, I don't think there is anything wrong with the "glamorizing" act of vaping, anymore than there is with glamorizing the act of caffeine use. If people can buy a $4.50 cup of "designer coffee" and not be stigmatized for their caffeine use, why can't vaping be treated exactly the same? Vaping IS enjoyable. I think it's far more enjoyable than smoking because it's NOT smoking. We didn't have so many gourmet flavors smoking nor all of the cool tools and accessories. It a lot closer to gourmet coffee, cigars or fine wines in that sense. It's going to be hard for it NOT to end up being cool, unless the FDA and ANTZ get their way and all we have available are tobacco/menthol flavored cig-a-likes. They like to claim vaping "normalizes/glamorizes smoking" but it doesn't. It normalizes/glamorizes a whole different way to use nicotine.