Is the PMTA as scary as many think it is?
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Man I sure hope they don't demand the uh, information from vapers and those who have spent more than a certain amount and then rounding them up and shoving them in jail. That would be like, the final straw.
I mean, I am not saying I WANT to go to jail, I mean I could freaking DEAL but holy Goodness, it doesn't sound pleasant at all. Yeah, I could be the queen or I could be a peon of the queen depending on my plan of attack. but the whole not smoking bit is just cruel and unusual punishment. It truly is.
I would have to threaten/befriend someone who worked there to smuggle them in and no I am not proud of that. My first like day working in a jail comes to mind. "It all started with a stick of gum." Staff member got fired, family was terrorized.
Plus the pooping out of the open is SUPER wrong and gross. Not doing it.
I suppose I could take the time to better myself as I quit cold turkey but I am afraid much of my time would be spend somewhere huddled in the corner, plotting revenge.
Anna
I mean, I am not saying I WANT to go to jail, I mean I could freaking DEAL but holy Goodness, it doesn't sound pleasant at all. Yeah, I could be the queen or I could be a peon of the queen depending on my plan of attack. but the whole not smoking bit is just cruel and unusual punishment. It truly is.
I would have to threaten/befriend someone who worked there to smuggle them in and no I am not proud of that. My first like day working in a jail comes to mind. "It all started with a stick of gum." Staff member got fired, family was terrorized.
Plus the pooping out of the open is SUPER wrong and gross. Not doing it.
I suppose I could take the time to better myself as I quit cold turkey but I am afraid much of my time would be spend somewhere huddled in the corner, plotting revenge.
Anna
WHAT POLITICIANS? - WHAT POLITICAL PARTY?
I asked this question on one of those major forums and was attacked by a bunch of what I consider BluumBorg {a mythical villain who manipulates the political structure and goals of a nation to suit his agendas} shills and trolls.
Now tell me if I'm wrong, and I know the bought and paid for {probably by Bluumborg} political hacks come from both parties - But which party are most of them coming from ? Or, if not by party, just who are they? Can anyone name the anti-vape politicians who keep voting in congress for more control, will probably eventually ban all flavors, and ultimately outlaw vaping if they can.
Isn't it time we expose these political criminal control freaks who really don't give a dam about your health, the health of your children or the health of the nation. Bluumborg or others on his payroll offer certain politicians 'campaign contributions' if they push for gun control, tobacco control, and even food control.
The mythical Bluumborg is a very, very dangerous individual
- And its not just tobacco and vaping. His money not only eats yours, but he steals the rights of Americans by using manipulation to enforce his agendas.
Remember 'Goldfinger' - The James Bond supervillian?
Bluumborg unfortunately is just such a villain
- And what is happening to vaping is being facilitated with his money.
So who are the politicians involved in the conspiracy
- Just who are they by name ?
- Give me a reason to vote in the coming election
- Who should we vote against to protect our right to vape???
We are many thousands and even if we can show only a small amount of political power in the coming election - Maybe next election they won't treat us like we were second class citizens - Our lives matter too !!!
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Well, hopefully the nicotine tax is a little further down the road than the PMTA stuff. That might give you some extra time to grab nicotine when you can.
I find it funny/sad/maddening that the government takes a pandemic they couldn't take less seriously to further their misguided agendas.
This is exactly what my state has done. Adult signature requirement, flavor ban, vaping bans everywhere. And as soon as the entire vaping industry is wiped out, they are going to tax it.
Who needs the FDA.
He does not know either. He has the big A. And a big ECF welcome to Joe Biden.
I don't think the pandemic has much to do with it honestly. I think they had more sinister motives than ecigs. Sure, they used it but ecigs were gomma go. Period.
Anna
I don't think the pandemic has much to do with it honestly. I think they had more sinister motives than ecigs. Sure, they used it but ecigs were gomma go. Period.
Anna
If the FDA did only what it was created to do, applied to vaping, we'd be fine. Instead it -- like so much else of government -- is being used as a tool & weapon to advance certain interests. Truly despicable.
If you dig into history of the western world, those bloomburg types have had their hand in everything important and making life miserable for everyone for hundreds of years. But it's not allowed to be spoken (and is actually illegal in 2-4 western countries to do so) so I'll stop here.
Um if you knew about and understood drug company studies and how they work and how corrupt they were, the PTMA process would make more sense to you I do think.
The FDA SUCKS. Studies are 12 weeks long in the final PHASE. You want to get pregnant on one? Better hope you are of rabbit like chemistry. If you want to NOT die, or not experience long term side effects you better freaking NOT TAKE IT UNTIL IT IS GENERIC.
WE are the guinea pigs for new drugs, WE the people and the drug companies often pay "professional" drug study people who do it for good money and when asked about side effects deny or downplay them.
BARELY better than placebo is the standard. If anything the FDA should be tossing ecigs out for being TOO SAFE and TOO effective. God knows they have killed less people than PROZAC in kids and adolescents (before they figured that out) or anyone sensitive to a prolonged Q-T rhythm and they STILL dole those meds out with a faint warning OH ESPECIALLY to psych patients. If you can't get them well, kill them off. Really.
The FDA is one of the most frightening organizations on earth, honestly. It really is. I mean, yes, drugs are necessary but like I have read copious books on the subject and well, the newest and best is NOT that but doctors are untrained. You should start with the OLD drug and work up but while doctors no longer get kickbacks or even pens they are very susceptible to the "Oh, the drug rep told me it was better because X,Y, Z" and the drug rep works on commission.
Proud to be on all but ONE generic and I KNOW I can't have more kids.
The FDA can barely do its current job let alone the ecig mess man. But they are AWFUL in general.
Anna
The FDA SUCKS. Studies are 12 weeks long in the final PHASE. You want to get pregnant on one? Better hope you are of rabbit like chemistry. If you want to NOT die, or not experience long term side effects you better freaking NOT TAKE IT UNTIL IT IS GENERIC.
WE are the guinea pigs for new drugs, WE the people and the drug companies often pay "professional" drug study people who do it for good money and when asked about side effects deny or downplay them.
BARELY better than placebo is the standard. If anything the FDA should be tossing ecigs out for being TOO SAFE and TOO effective. God knows they have killed less people than PROZAC in kids and adolescents (before they figured that out) or anyone sensitive to a prolonged Q-T rhythm and they STILL dole those meds out with a faint warning OH ESPECIALLY to psych patients. If you can't get them well, kill them off. Really.
The FDA is one of the most frightening organizations on earth, honestly. It really is. I mean, yes, drugs are necessary but like I have read copious books on the subject and well, the newest and best is NOT that but doctors are untrained. You should start with the OLD drug and work up but while doctors no longer get kickbacks or even pens they are very susceptible to the "Oh, the drug rep told me it was better because X,Y, Z" and the drug rep works on commission.
Proud to be on all but ONE generic and I KNOW I can't have more kids.
The FDA can barely do its current job let alone the ecig mess man. But they are AWFUL in general.
Anna
Doctors never (legally, anyway) got monetary kickbacks but the drug reps do spend a lot of money on the doctors. Fine dinners and such. And then there are the drug samples. Why write a script when you can give your patients meds for free? Once they are used to a certain med, that's the med they wanted. Don't even get me started on direct to patient advertising! Remember when that didn't exist? You got your medical knowledge from your doctor, not the TV or internet. I actually preferred working in government settings. I knew the older drugs, and I knew them by their generic names. In fact, even now, if someone throws a trade name at me, I have to look it up.
Oh you should see many of those drug reps. And no. I don't think a sexual favor in the back parking lot has MONOTARY value I guess. LOL.
But Docs are trained to BELIEVE these studies. I have attended a drug rep lunch/dinner in my time. THEY BELIEVE the drug reps about its "betterness." They ask EARNEST questions. Etc.
LOL my favorite drug rep dinner was Zyprexa (olanzapine.) In a short lived but misguided attempt to capitalize on "Early initiation of treatment" I GUESS well the drug rep brought the dissolvable mint capsules, and the uh, ones with no freaking drug in it, "So you can take one in front of the patient and they will trust you and take their "laced" portion. Schizophrenics, by the time involuntarily in the ER are notoriously psychotic, paranoid and incoherent. I just stared at the lady, wishing I could do mean stuff to her (I have been PP and I myself.)
But the funniest part was NONE of the SANE people TRUSTED the drug rep you could see it on their faces, LOL "What if one got mixed up?"
After about 5 minutes I casually reached over, grabbed one and ate it or dissolved it or whatever. I said, "Oh, this should go over REAL well with the schizophrenics, I'm SURE." I mean I had taken it before and its main issue is uncontrollable eating so I just figured worst case it would make my meal extra delicious.
I never administered one, I'm sorry at least an injection is like a well known like, side effect to sudden saneness, a breath mint not so much. I didn't want to disorient anyone too much OR sup[port a drug company that made me develop medication induced bulimia (IT WAS BRAND NEW! NO ONE KNEW! they said, okay yeah fine that did not make my life hell for a few years though?
Anna
But Docs are trained to BELIEVE these studies. I have attended a drug rep lunch/dinner in my time. THEY BELIEVE the drug reps about its "betterness." They ask EARNEST questions. Etc.
LOL my favorite drug rep dinner was Zyprexa (olanzapine.) In a short lived but misguided attempt to capitalize on "Early initiation of treatment" I GUESS well the drug rep brought the dissolvable mint capsules, and the uh, ones with no freaking drug in it, "So you can take one in front of the patient and they will trust you and take their "laced" portion. Schizophrenics, by the time involuntarily in the ER are notoriously psychotic, paranoid and incoherent. I just stared at the lady, wishing I could do mean stuff to her (I have been PP and I myself.)
But the funniest part was NONE of the SANE people TRUSTED the drug rep you could see it on their faces, LOL "What if one got mixed up?"
After about 5 minutes I casually reached over, grabbed one and ate it or dissolved it or whatever. I said, "Oh, this should go over REAL well with the schizophrenics, I'm SURE." I mean I had taken it before and its main issue is uncontrollable eating so I just figured worst case it would make my meal extra delicious.
I never administered one, I'm sorry at least an injection is like a well known like, side effect to sudden saneness, a breath mint not so much. I didn't want to disorient anyone too much OR sup[port a drug company that made me develop medication induced bulimia (IT WAS BRAND NEW! NO ONE KNEW! they said, okay yeah fine that did not make my life hell for a few years though?
Anna
Yes, I think you are right. There are probably some people in the FDA who don't want to deal with vaping
- Remember they weren't supposed to institute the PMTA until 2022 - BUT CERTAIN SPECIAL INTERESTS {bought and paid for by Bluumborg?} forced the issue in court and in a sense forced the court to act - Again, being on the optimistic side, even if the PMTA delay petition fails, and partly because the gov. doesn't have that much money to waste- They will start enforcing regulations slowly and selectively - So companies who are staying in business may want to pay all taxes due and obey current regulations that are reasonable - such as making it clear that you are not trying to sell to the under 21 age range.
So here we are, almost 3 months after the supposed end of legal vaping was to begin, the dreaded PMTA
that was gong to cause most of vape products to suddenly disappear from the market.
I'm looking at the internet marketplace and don't see much of anythng disappearing.
So for the moment all is well - Apparently government doesn't have the money or resources to waste while a real problem, the Covid 19 pandemic rages.
Of course if you have studied the modern anti-tobacco, which now includess vaping, movement - the tobacco nazis will not stop - they willl strike again.
But for now I suppose no one wants to listen to them attempting to deny access to vapers getting their nicotine products through the mail - instead of having to go to stores, when going to to stores exposes us to more contact and increased risk of infection - But then again did the anti-tobacco, now anti-vape, control freaks ever really care about anyone's health or was it always the prohibitionist mind set at work?
Almost Nothing happens Suddenly when it comes to Regs and or the FDA.
More like at a Glacieratic pace. But the Glacier does get to the Bottom of the Valley. Eventually.
You also should consider that much of the Senior/Mid-Level Leadership of the FDA is going to be Gone in early 2021. So if you know that your Ticket is going to get Punched, are you really going to be all Gung Ho to do stuff?
My Crystal Ball says that there will be a Lull from now until Biden names his HHS Secretary/FDA Commissionaire. And then we will see a Surge of Activity with regards to e-Cigarette Enforcement and PMTA Processing.
Or perhaps more accurately, PMTA Rejections.
The $64,000 Question to me is will Zeller suck-up enough to stay as the CTP Head? And in this case, Sucking-Up to the Incoming President/HHS Secretary means taking a much Harder Line on e-Cigarettes than he is taking right now.
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