Is the whole scandal with da and ap overblown? Some numbers inside

[Vapey_McVape]

Is it?

I've been pretty supportive of da/ap not being present in juices and for transparency in ingredients present in juices, however a few weeks ago I thought about it and realized that the numbers people were exposed to in the manufacturing settings are enormous.

From my understanding ppm is a measurement of volume, so there are 1 million parts to each ml.

The lowest detectable levels found in the manufacturing settings from what I have read were .02ppm.

Now the average human at rest breathes in approximately 7 to 8 liters of air per minute. If we multiply this number by 60(minutes) and then by 8(hours), the average human would be inhaling between 3360 - 3840 Liters of air within an 8 hour work day (This estimate is low as it is applicable to only resting rate of breathing). We then multiply 3360 (L) * 1000 (ml) and that gives us between 3,360,000 ml - 3,840,000 ml of air inhaled per day.

If the lowest concentration per ml that was detectable in these manufacturing areas was .02ppm that would mean that the lowest amount these workers were inhaling across a 8 hour work day was approximately 67,200 ppm - 76,800 ppm

What are your thoughts on this?

 

[rotku]

A train leaves Boston, traveling west at 60 mph. Another train leaves LA ....... Word problems hurt my head. Actually I just received some Castle Long. I have not been to the forum for a while so I did not realize there were some da/ ap issues floating around. I will be curious to hear more information about the possible dangers.

 

[Nermal]

Is it?
From my understanding ppm is a measurement of volume, so there are 1 million parts to each ml.

Ppm is a measure of concentration, so if you know the volume, you can calculate the quantity - if you really want to.

My thoughts are that it is an avoidable hazard. What you do is your choice. My further thought is that while it may be harmless at certain concentrations, I am very negative on those companies which present themselves as diactyl free, and are shown to be otherwise.

 

[skoony]

seeing that way less than 30 cases have been ever reported world wide
since 2000 the way i see it is take 30 and divide by 7 billion.
that's about 0.0000000004.3%.
regards
mike

 

[stevegmu]

The workers wear contamination suits and filtered respirators for a reason...
Most cases are just diagnosed as COPD apparently...

 

[Nermal]

Good comparison, Mike - if all 7 billion are vaping the buttered popcorn liquid.

 

[Nermal]

Now I wonder why it looks like I quoted myself.

 

[Nuclear Cowboy]

Since nobody really knows the long term affects of vaping this might be the least of your concerns. I do appreciate transparency though.

It might be affecting Nermal already!

 

[Nermal]

I like transparency; I require honesty in a vendor.

 

[GoBlue88]

seeing that way less than 30 cases have been ever reported world wide
since 2000 the way i see it is take 30 and divide by 7 billion.
that's about 0.0000000004.3%.
regards
mike

QED

 

[englishmick]

R ad A

 

[Alien Traveler]

Is it?

I've been pretty supportive of da/ap not being present in juices and for transparency in ingredients present in juices, however a few weeks ago I thought about it and realized that the numbers people were exposed to in the manufacturing settings are enormous.

From my understanding ppm is a measurement of volume, so there are 1 million parts to each ml.

The lowest detectable levels found in the manufacturing settings from what I have read were .02ppm.

Now the average human at rest breathes in approximately 7 to 8 liters of air per minute. If we multiply this number by 60(minutes) and then by 8(hours), the average human would be inhaling between 3360 - 3840 Liters of air within an 8 hour work day (This estimate is low as it is applicable to only resting rate of breathing). We then multiply 3360 (L) * 1000 (ml) and that gives us between 3,360,000 ml - 3,840,000 ml of air inhaled per day.

If the lowest concentration per ml that was detectable in these manufacturing areas was .02ppm that would mean that the lowest amount these workers were inhaling across a 8 hour work day was approximately 67,200 ppm - 76,800 ppm

What are your thoughts on this?

ppm is part per million. 1 ppm means on part of something to 999,999 parts of another something. So, actually 0.02 ppm means they inhale almost nothing.

 

[Vapey_McVape]

alien Traveler" data-source="post: 16208089" class="bbCodeBlock bbCodeBlock--expandable bbCodeBlock--quote js-expandWatch">

ppm is part per million. 1 ppm means on part of something to 999,999 parts of another something. So, actually 0.02 ppm means they inhale almost nothing.

Except its not .02 per breath but more along the lines of the calculation I did. I cross checked my numbers with what Farsalinos said were NIOSH safety numbers and it added up.

 

[Rabbit Slayer]

If something is discovered to be not good for us and there is a way to avoid it we should, 1ppm or 1ppt shouldn't matter

 

[Racehorse]

My thoughts are that it is an avoidable hazard. What you do is your choice.

I concur.

My further thought is that while it may be harmless at certain concentrations, I am very negative on those companies which present themselves as diactyl free, and are shown to be otherwise.

That is correct. There is no scandal and has been none, with ejuices that have it and vendors being aware of that and being honest.

All the "scandals" have come from vendors saying it's not in there and then it is.

All some vapers want to know is 1) is DA and AP in my juice and 2) how much is in there?

Answers that are acceptable are: 1) yes 2) no, and here is test to prove 3) we don't know.

Seems very simple to me.

 

[VNeil]

I'm still waiting for the first vaper to be reported to have suffered significant respiratory problems due to vaping. And people have been vaping for 6 years now. Longer, in fact, than some of those popcorn worker's employment in those plants.

 

[stevegmu]

I'm still waiting for the first vaper to be reported to have suffered significant respiratory problems due to vaping. And people have been vaping for 6 years now. Longer, in fact, than some of those popcorn worker's employment in those plants.

If they smoked 20 years and vaped 6, and got COPD, it would just be attributed to smoking...The new breed of never smokers who are now vaping are the case studies...

 

[stevegmu]

Is it?

I've been pretty supportive of da/ap not being present in juices and for transparency in ingredients present in juices, however a few weeks ago I thought about it and realized that the numbers people were exposed to in the manufacturing settings are enormous.

From my understanding ppm is a measurement of volume, so there are 1 million parts to each ml.

The lowest detectable levels found in the manufacturing settings from what I have read were .02ppm.

Now the average human at rest breathes in approximately 7 to 8 liters of air per minute. If we multiply this number by 60(minutes) and then by 8(hours), the average human would be inhaling between 3360 - 3840 Liters of air within an 8 hour work day (This estimate is low as it is applicable to only resting rate of breathing). We then multiply 3360 (L) * 1000 (ml) and that gives us between 3,360,000 ml - 3,840,000 ml of air inhaled per day.

If the lowest concentration per ml that was detectable in these manufacturing areas was .02ppm that would mean that the lowest amount these workers were inhaling across a 8 hour work day was approximately 67,200 ppm - 76,800 ppm

What are your thoughts on this?

You seem to think they worked without protection and were standing over the vats inhaling it all day. If I breathed in burning PVC all day at work for 8-12 hours I would have been dead years ago. Catch a whiff every now and then, maybe not so bad...

Vapers are deliberately inhaling it all day every day, now in large quantities with subohming...

 

[zapped]

I think its being blown out of proportion a bit to be honest.

I vape at 8 watts

The danger to me, even with a juice with trace amounts of diacetyl inside is MUCH lower than someone vaping at 50-100 watts......especially since they are approaching combustion.

It just stands to reason that more chemicals will be released with more energy applied.

I just lost my all-time favorite all day vape because of this and Im none too happy about it.

Not everyone sub-ohms and/or blows massive clouds.I think it should be left up to us as consumers to decide what we put into our bodies, NOT juice manufacturers, not AEMSA, and certainly not the latest and greatest vaping fad.

If businesses continue to cater to only one kind of customer then thats the only customers they will have.

 

[stevegmu]

I think its being blown out of proportion a bit to be honest.

I vape at 8 watts

The danger to me, even with a juice with trace amounts of diacetyl inside is MUCH lower than someone vaping at 50-100 watts......especially since they are approaching combustion.

It just stands to reason that more chemicals will be released with more energy applied.


I just lost my all-time favorite all day vape because of this and Im none too happy about it.

I'm a low power vaper also, but I'm not willing to risk it. AP is even worse than diacetyl...