Is there anybody here who claims that the O.B. is dangerous?

[IgnorantCig]

There seems to be a bit of controversy and hysteria/fearmongering taking place recently in my opinion. I'm currently vaping on the O.B. from Suicide Bunny as I am writing this post, because I like the taste, and based on my own research, it seems to be well within the acceptable limits according to what is recommended, and I don't have any concerns with currently vaping it.

I have researched that the O.B. contains 20.98 ppm of Acetyl Propionyl and less than 5 ppm of Diacetyl contained in the juice. This is based on test results that I have found. I only vape 2-3 ml per day, so this is well below any limits as suggested by certain organizations such as the ECTA.

In the current threads about 5P, I notice some people mentioning Suicide Bunny, and I have looked over some of those older threads from last year, but is there anything that I'm missing or that I am not aware of, because a juice like the O.B. seems to be well within any limits.

I have been aware of the various potentially bad chemicals issue since I first began vaping, because I've been reading a ton of posts on this forum, and that is partly one of the reasons why I have chosen to keep my daily ml intake of juice pretty low, and I was fully aware of the Suicide Bunny controversy from last year when I purchased the juice, so it was a fully informed decision on my part, and my decision to vape the O.B. was not based on ignorance.

I'm just curious if there has been anything that I have missed, or if there is any new information that I am not aware of. Are the test results that I posted above not accurate or misleading?

 

[dragonsdeath]

Personally I'm not to worried about the whole issue at all. I smoked 2 packs of camel filters a day for 21 years. No one ever said vaping was a safe alternative to smoking. Its a safer alternative to smoking. Vaping has been around for many years. Its only in the last year the concerns of Diacetyl and Acetyl Propionyl in ejuice have came under fire.
No we dont know the long term effects of vaping, thats going to take many years of research, but there hasnt been a sudden spike in "popcorn lung" over the last few years and there are sure as heck alot less chemicals in vaping as appose to the 2 packs of smokes a day I was consuming.

Many wont like my view on this, but fact is with vaping there are unknown risks, it took decades for all the risks of smoking to come to light, and its for each of us to decide what risks we are comfortable with.

 

[Verb]

Yes, they exist.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Then don't suppose you've heard of the mumbled/suggested possible links to COPD? Everyone is certainly free to make their own choices, though you may remember hearing that prudence is the better part of valor. And you won't that find that crap in my juices. Vape on!

 

[AndriaD]

You won't find it in mine, either; I DIY just so I can make sure of it, because I *like* lots of flavoring. But I have to echo what DragonsDeath said, it's for us as individuals to decide what level of risk we can tolerate. For myself as an asthmatic, I couldn't enjoy vaping this richness of flavor if I thought there was even a chance that I was setting myself up for something just as horrible as lung cancer; breathlessness is supposed to be the sign of bronchiolitis obliterans... but I have asthma, so how would I know? It's a risk, however slight, that I am just not comfortable with, personally. But I refuse to become a nanny and tell everyone they shouldn't take that risk either. If they're informed of the potential risk, they can make their own choice -- that's what adults do; that's what every one of us former smokers did.

Vaping is harm reduction; reduce a little harm or a lot, whatever suits your needs and comfort level.

Andria

 

[lovemytank]

I run with scissors ever day. I have only stabbed myself 5 times, twice having to go to the ER. Out of the 4000 days my stats are pretty good yet still have some sweet scarring. Make an informed decision and vape on. I hope TFA's DX (dikatone free) flavors keep coming out because I love a good custard yet would be stoked to get rid of those dikatones if possible.

 

[Pete54]

You won't find it in mine, either; I DIY just so I can make sure of it, because I *like* lots of flavoring. But I have to echo what DragonsDeath said, it's for us as individuals to decide what level of risk we can tolerate. For myself as an asthmatic, I couldn't enjoy vaping this richness of flavor if I thought there was even a chance that I was setting myself up for something just as horrible as lung cancer; breathlessness is supposed to be the sign of bronchiolitis obliterans... but I have asthma, so how would I know? It's a risk, however slight, that I am just not comfortable with, personally. But I refuse to become a nanny and tell everyone they shouldn't take that risk either. If they're informed of the potential risk, they can make their own choice -- that's what adults do; that's what every one of us former smokers did.

Vaping is harm reduction; reduce a little harm or a lot, whatever suits your needs and comfort level.

Andria

I'm curious (because I DIY as well). How do you know the flavoring you use is free of these chemicals? Do any of the flavoring companies have and post third party tests?

 

[AndriaD]

I'm curious (because I DIY as well). How do you know the flavoring you use is free of these chemicals? Do any of the flavoring companies have and post third party tests?

Not sure about "3rd party" -- but TFA does post all the specs on their flavors; everything they contain, and any safety info that applies to any ingredient. For other brands, I have to depend on BCV, who are excellent about knowing and showing which flavors need "caution" -- they put that as a background for any flavor that contains ANY diketones, even just traces.

Fact is, I'm not a scientist, so most scientific documents would fly right over my head. If TFA says there is no diacetyl, acetyl propionyl, or acetoin in a flavor, I'll take their word for it, because they're not in the ejuice business, they're in the flavor business, and will remain in that business even if vaping becomes extinct. I trust them in that because they also identify which flavors contain sulfites -- which no asthmatic has any business ingesting in any fashion -- even though there is absolutely no way to tell that sulfites are present; it's normally used to keep food from turning brown; since they use it in a brown ejuice (DblChoc-Dark), I can't for the life of me figure out why it's in there, but now I use DblChoc-Clear.

Unless one is a scientist with one's own lab, or unlimited funds to use other labs, one has to trust someone, somewhere -- I choose to trust a flavor mfr. who's been in business since long before vaping, and would still be there even if vaping disappeared.

Andria

 

[AndriaD]

I run with scissors ever day. I have only stabbed myself 5 times, twice having to go to the ER. Out of the 4000 days my stats are pretty good yet still have some sweet scarring. Make an informed decision and vape on. I hope TFA's DX (dikatone free) flavors keep coming out because I love a good custard yet would be stoked to get rid of those dikatones if possible.

They do a Vanilla Swirl flavor, which is their Vanilla Custard flavor with the diketones removed -- they had that flavor long before any of this hooraw started up. Their DX Bavarian is pretty good too, and if you mix those 2 flavors together, you get a very realistic custard flavor. Plus some sweetener, of course.

Andria

 

[IgnorantCig]

Thanks for the replies so far! There are some interesting points of view.

I agree that at the end of the day, we each have to make our own decisions as to what is best for us individually and what we choose to vape.

 

[LoveVanilla]

Like Andria, I DIY. And second her on TFA/Linda as a company/proprietor that can be trusted. The other who I believe trustworthy is Flavor Art. They set the model for a vaping flavor supplier who proactively protects customer health. Take a look at their "Clear Stream" research -- they even do live cell testing.

FA and selected TFA flavors provide most everything I need. I make exceptions for Hangsen tobaccos -- which are direct molecular distillations screened from tobacco. I have never seen test results from Hangsen but I am comfortable with this decision for their tobaccos -- and my senses confirm.

Meanwhile others, such as Flavor West, "All Flavoring Diacetyl Free!", I would not touch with a ten foot pole. Watch your step -- there are suppliers who have clearly shown they value profit more than customer health.

Edit: On my last point, here is the evidence.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

SB is here in the Dallas area. I have heard some horror stories from ex-employees. I don't want to get sued, but I will say that I won't buy their products.

 

[Hans Wermhat]

It sucks, because Mother's Milk was one of my faves.